Trailer Weight

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

If it was I'd consider hiring a 7.5 tonner or a big Sprinter. Pitters of West end do em with tow hooks. You get around the weight problem and they are much finer on the motorway!

Absolutely right, Stu.. much better option.......unless.... check your licence... if your C1E category has a code of 107 after it... you’re limited to 8250 GTW.. I.e. 7.5 Tonner and 750 KG trailer.... People who passed there test before '97 ( I think) and haven't done trailer tests..got this code added ..... I've got it on my licence... but I've also got CE.... so I can't tow my boat behind my 7.5 tonner... but I can drive my 12 tonner with its 5 tonne trailer...go figure...??? …and you’ll need your tacho still…





...and I saw that JW !

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Jono

but I've also got CE.... so I can't tow my boat behind my 7.5 tonner... but I can drive my 12 tonner with its 5 tonne trailer...go figure...???

That's got to be wrong.

Surely when driving a 7.5 tonner with a big trailer you are driving it under the entitlement of your C+E licence, so any C1+E restriction is irrelevant.

If you were to lose your C+E entitlement (or not renew it as you must be approaching that age), then you'd need to drive to the C1+E rules.

John

PS Doug would need to comply with drivers' hours and tacho regs because it would be for business use, but it might be something worth considering for private users who want to occasionally tow a larger RIB.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

That's got to be wrong.

Surely when driving a 7.5 tonner with a big trailer you are driving it under the entitlement of your C+E licence, so any C1+E restriction is irrelevant.

If you were to lose your C+E entitlement (or not renew it as you must be approaching that age), then you'd need to drive to the C1+E rules.

John

Doh! I'd kinda figured that one myself, Oh Lanky One... I was just pointing a finger of fun at the stupidity of the bureaucracy from the good people at Swansea...must be something in the air, down there.... so less of the “ageism” comments you…and get back to removing threads/posts before I have time to wade in wiv me size 12s….

[Jono]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

... but it might be something worth considering for private users who want to occasionally tow a larger RIB.

Or tow on the continent... a Tacho isn't an expensive addition....

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by Jono

Absolutely right, Stu.. much better option.......unless.... check your licence... if your C1E category has a code of 107 after it... you’re limited to 8250 GTW.. I.e. 7.5 Tonner and 750 KG trailer.... People who passed there test before '97 ( I think) and haven't done trailer tests..got this code added ..... I've got it on my licence... but I've also got CE.... so I can't tow my boat behind my 7.5 tonner... but I can drive my 12 tonner with its 5 tonne trailer...go figure...??? …and you’ll need your tacho still…





...and I saw that JW !

I bet the Magistrates love it when you come up before them!

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I bet the Magistrates love it when you come up before them!

Nah... dunno why though? I thought everone loved a smartarse....

Originally Posted by Jono

…. One Circuit Judge said, upon hearing my blustering in Court, “Son, You should have been a Solicitor”.. to which I replied.. “Sir, my sister is a barrister…and that’s enough shame for any one family to carry”…. I lost my case…

[hard1]

Hi Jono, (I know you love this stuff)
and anyone else interested.

I have a number of issues with VOSA and wrote to them asking for a clarification on various points. I wrote to the local Traffic Commisioners office which for us is in Bristol. I got an acknowledgement after 2 weeks and an email after 6 (good job I wasn't in a hurry then). Here is part of it from t' 'orses mahf.

"You have mentioned trailers in your query. For a motor vehicle and drawbar trailer, if the total of the gross plated weights does not exceed 3.5 tonnes, (or if either the vehicle or trailer is not plated, an unladen
weight of 1525 kgs) an operators' licence will not be required. (In each
case, a trailer with an unladen weight of less than 1025 kg need not be
taken in to account. If the weights outlined above are likely to be
exceeded, in our view, an operator's licence will be required.

You have mentioned the need for a tachograph in your query. Under EC
3820/85 "Vehicles used for the carriage of goods where the maximum permissable weight of the vehicle, including any trailer or semi- trailer, does not exceed 3.5 tonnes." are exempt from the requirement for a tachograph to be fitted.
Under UK domestic rules any vehicle being used (and specially fitted for that use... for cultural events and exhibitions" are also exempt. If you are content that either one or both of the above will apply to the use(s) of the vehicle(s) you have described in your letter, a tachograph may not be required."

Please note the bits about tacho's and an operators licence which not many people realise at this time )except Jono who, I understand, is going into business installing tacho's and if he isn't he should be). EEC harmonisation! Don't you just love it! I believe the UK VOSA is delightfully vague and confusing because they are caught between UK and EEC law here. That's why they are saying it is up to the courts to interpret these laws, and all VOSA can do is offer "guidelines" which can be "tested". Even if you follow VOSA guidelines to the letter - you could be in trouble. The weird thing is though, it will probably be a VOSA officer that reports you (and they're everywhere in their new 4X4's), so, follow the guidlelines!

Hope this has been useful to members.

[Jono]

Here's a good idea... what we need is a "tester".... ….. Drive around with a 2.9 metre wide 9 metre long wide boat on a trailer plated to 3,500 Kg behind a Landrover with no tacho until you get stopped by the Police... then see what they charge you with...... and see if it "sticks" in court with a top Silk representing you... then publish the findings on RibNet............ any Volunteers?

[DGR]

Originally Posted by Jono

Here's a good idea... what we need is a "tester".... ….. Drive around with a 2.9 metre wide 9 metre long wide boat on a trailer plated to 3,500 Kg behind a Landrover with no tacho until you get stopped by the Police... then see what they charge you with...... and see if it "sticks" in court with a top Silk representing you... then publish the findings on RibNet............ any Volunteers?

No ta!!

I've dragged my 7.8 Ribcraft behind the Disco for about 1,000 miles, which by the time you add the towbar/drawbar and how far the outdrive sticks out is about 9m. It's just over 2.9m wide as well. I've not been stopped.

It won't go over 50mph before it starts to wobble, and I've had a couple of hairy moments with it. It now goes from the compound to the slip and back again. If I had to move it any great distance I'd rather go by sea - or hire something to pull it - although it looks like I'd have to get someone qualified to tow it as well (code 107 etc etc).

Anyway - as my licence is being sent away this afternoon (something to do with a photo and a speed limit somewhere ), I can do without any more attention from the boys in blue for a while!!

D...

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by DGR

It won't go over 50mph before it starts to wobble, and I've had a couple of hairy moments with it.
D...

I would say the combination is just badly setup - I have towed the race boat with an overall length of over 8 metres and a beam of 2.5 metres and a weight of just under 1000 kg off the trailer to Italy, Spain, Gibralter, Holland, Denmark, Germany, and Norway at speeds slightly in excess of 50mph without any difficulty at all - it probably just needs the axle moving back or forwards a little, thats all!

[DGR]

Cookee,

Yes, its not great. I think the problem is that the RIB is very back heavy on the trailer, the inboard diesel weighs over half a tonne. The trailer problem is that I can only move the axle back about an inch before the swingarms foul.

While it used to be quite frightening, the wobble has imporved since all the kit has gone on - as most of it is forward of the engine bay and has helped to increase nose weight (as has 270 litres of fuel) - but the really alarming thing is that you can be rock solid at say 60 mph, and a lorry will go by and set it off - and at times you wonder if it's ever going to stop!!

D...

[peteb]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Doug. If you are going to stick 3.5 ton on the back of your Landie I'd be wary!

It's a short wheelbase and at that weight they have a tendancy for the tail to wag the Dog. Is the tow for a long distance and are you earning out of it. If it was I'd consider hiring a 7.5 tonner or a big Sprinter. Pitters of West end do em with tow hooks. You get around the weight problem and they are much finer on the motorway!

whatever you use however I'd get a pair of long vehicle plates for the back of the trailer.

Before all the Solihull Soldiers pop out of the woodwork and defend Landies I've got one myself and I love it but I wouldn't tow 3.5 tonnes behind it willingly again!

I tow 3,500 kg with a new TD5 Defender (with ECU bhp & torque upgrade by Van Acker) and it tows like a dream, in Europe I do believe you can tow 4,500kg behind a Land Rover. The trailer and the set up of that is the very important thing, I certainly ensured it was done correctly and have 85kg on the hitch (the Landy max is 150kg). I use a 3,500kg braked Snipe trailer by the way.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by peteb

.., in Europe I do believe you can tow 4,500kg behind a Land Rover. ..

Que? What makes you think that? You can exceed 3,500Kg in the Uk..if you have close coupled braking system added...4,000Kg.. I think...

..but 4,500Kg in Europe?

[peteb]

Originally Posted by Jono

Que? What makes you think that? You can exceed 3,500Kg in the Uk..if you have close coupled braking system added...4,000Kg.. I think...

..but 4,500Kg in Europe?

Jono, someone mentioned it to me when I was talking about towing to SOF recently, cannot remember who. We were talking in a group about towing and taking extra equipment for a few weeks, I mentioned load capacity and was then told that when in France they did not have a 3,500kg limit so would be OK, but in hindsight if the manufacturer is saying 3,500kg perhaps sticking to that is sensible. After what you said I have searched the internet and find no detail of this, so perhaps they were confusing it with the coupled braking system. I hope someone else may read this who has heard about it and let us know more, but I know I would not feel comfortable towing 4,500kg with no upgraded brakes, and I guess the insurance would not be worth the paper it was written on if anything happened.

[PeterR]

DGR,Would a caravan stabiliser bar help with your trailer handling if so you pay the postage and you can have one of the three i have.You would still need to buy though the towing bracket(hitch end &sliding plate thing)Offer also extends to other members.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by no fear

DGR,Would a caravan stabiliser bar help with your trailer handling if so you pay the postage and you can have one of the three i have.You would still need to buy though the towing bracket(hitch end &sliding plate thing)Offer also extends to other members.

Yes I was also going to suggest that - most caravanners use them for the very reason he mentioned.

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Jono

Absolutely right, Stu.. much better option.......unless.... check your licence... if your C1E category has a code of 107 after it... you’re limited to 8250 GTW.. I.e. 7.5 Tonner and 750 KG trailer.... People who passed there test before '97 ( I think) and haven't done trailer tests..got this code added .....

Now then, Jono. I've got a diving licence which is almost older than me and it says I'm licensed to drive groups A,E with no mention of the C, C1 etc. On the back, A is defined as 'Any motor vehicle other than a vehicle in Group X. See notes c'. Group X is a motor bike, road roller, tracked vehicle, invalid carriage and trolley vehicle. Note c is exclusion from driving a HGV & PSV.

Is my licence just out of date or am I privileged?

[Jono]

Originally Posted by jwalker

.....Is my licence just out of date or am I privileged?

Dunno... never understood them Roman licences... does it allow you to drive Bullock Cart? ... but only when laden with no more than ten bushells of wheat..or summat?

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Jono

....does it allow you to drive Bullock Cart? ... but only when laden with no more than ten bushells of wheat..or summat?

Yeh, it does. How'd you know that?