10HP to 15HP, how much better?

dogboy · 08 December 2010, 09:24

hi all. my first post and end of first years boating.

I have had my zodiac futura (mark 1 ,airdeck, 1999, 11.5ft) for a year with a 10hp tiller yam 4stroke (2008 motor) and had loads of fun in it, but would like a bit more power. the 10hp when on the plane goes quite well, but it is its ability to get on the plane quickly in anything other than ideal conditions that is the problem. you have to coax it. heading back against the swell/waves can mean no planing. five minutes in one direction can be 20 back the other way.

so, to the solution. a 15hp 2stroke? i am looking at a late 2000's (must be as new as possible) merc, mariner or yam, (35kg max) motor. How much will this improve things? do any of you have experience of the same situation. is the 15hp the answer to all my problems. will the boat get onto the plane far more easily and quickly? will it be straight back on the plane after a tight turn? etc.

also, just out of curiosity, the weight of a 15 is about as much as i want to carry, but the boat will take up to 20hp. it seems imposible though, to buy a late (20004/2006) 20hp 2 stroke? they are all old 80's or early 90's. were they not made at this size in the 2000's ?

hope you can help

9D280 · 08 December 2010, 10:59

Firstly, Welcome to ribnet!

You pretty much hit the nail on the head there - 50% more power = more grunt to get on the plane. I can't give acual comment on that setup as I've never used one like it, but if it's OK-ish at the moment that should do the trick. (I went form 25 to 30 Hp on the back of an SR4. The time to plane was substantially reduced with a moderate power hike).

As for newish 2-strokes, I guess that is a popular size. Polwart has one, so they were made, but 20 is a bit of a no mans' land. Too big for generic cart-about-able SIBS, and too small for smaller Ribs. Hence I suspect not as many as those around and who have one want to keep it. If you can be patient, one will show up eventually.

Also any reason for 2004/6? To put it in perspective the museum on the back of mine is an early 80s machine according to the paint job. The desgn started life in the 60s..... Put another way a 2006 engine may be the same lump as one built in 1999 with a different paint job.

The thing with outboards is a 3YO one left out and driven with the wrong prop for all that time could be in far worse condition than a 10YO machine that has been looked after.....

dogboy · 08 December 2010, 12:14

thanks for the thoughts. a 15 has to be better. i am just wanting it to be loads better if i have to spend another £1000 or so. I hate spending £1000 and being disapointed.

the reason for as new as possible is i have been told so many times, buy as new as you can afford for reliability. i have had a number of modern classic bikes and cars and the breakdowns and tinkering are all part of the fun. not with a boat though. stranded at sea, no thanks. i want my boating to be as modern as possible.

this will now probably spark an old verses new engine debate. go for it, but any more thoughts on the 15hp upgrade would also be gratefully received

jake 4589 · 08 December 2010, 12:48

Hi there.
Just wanted to say that after adding the hydrofoils to my 15hp engine I noticed a marked improvement, especially ease of getting on the plane. Only £20, well worth it on my opinion.
Not everyone on here seems to like them but I would give it a try.

Jake

willk · 08 December 2010, 13:47

How about this, 18hp Tohatsu 2 stroke, weighs 41kg mind - same as their 15hp motor.

For sale but nothing to do with me

Poly · 08 December 2010, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

As for newish 2-strokes, I guess that is a popular size. Polwart has one, so they were made, but 20 is a bit of a no mans' land. Too big for generic cart-about-able SIBS, and too small for smaller Ribs. Hence I suspect not as many as those around and who have one want to keep it. If you can be patient, one will show up eventually.

I do indeed! This was a late model about a year before they stopped importing 2 strokes in Europe. I had no problems sourcing it at the time. There are at least another 2 people with the same engine on here, so they were available but as 9d280 says those who have them will probably be happy with them. One other point is that, certainly for Yamaha, the engine was essentially identical to the 25 HP - so you could get more power for the same weight when buying new.

That 18 HP tohatsu that Willk has linked to is a highly regarded little engine, and just light enough for a normal human to be able to manouevre!

dogboy · 08 December 2010, 20:22

thanks to all for the input.
the tohatsu looks interesting, but a little to expensive, and in ireland. the 15 with fins added should do the trick it seems as i have never seen the elusive late 20hp in a year of consistent looking and the 25 is to powerful for my 20hp rated futura... would it be to dangerous to put a 25 on ?

jake 4589 · 08 December 2010, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogboy

... would it be to dangerous to put a 25 on ?

If it has a 20hp rating then its there for a reason, secondly putting on a 25hp would invalidate your insurance.

Hope you've got insurance

Jake

dogboy · 08 December 2010, 20:51

as we launch with transom wheels over the beach and the boat is small with a 10 hp i dont have insurance. is this really a problem? how many insurance companies are there taking money of us all of the time. if we do use a slipway occasionaly the insurance has been included in our launch fee

mikeripon · 08 December 2010, 21:35

hey dogboy, i had a 15hp 4 stroke suzuki (2 yr old) on my 3.1mtr inflatable boat, fab engine and very frugal on fuel! also very versatile as can be put on other boats from fishing boat to inflatable.
its for sale at a sensible price if you intrested?

Erin · 08 December 2010, 21:40

I don't know about regulations in your area, but I would have thought that insurance would be a good idea to protect both yourself and your boat. Imagine accidently hitting someone out swimming, whilst your'e bombing about. Unfortunately in this day and age of culpability and ambulance chasers, you'd be on a hiding to nothing without insurance to pay the damages that people claim even for the merest accident. Even one of your own passengers could sue you for damages if they fell out

Poly · 08 December 2010, 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogboy

as we launch with transom wheels over the beach and the boat is small with a 10 hp i dont have insurance. is this really a problem?

as others say hitting someone in the water is a risk. As could potentially hitting another vessel or forcing another vessel to take avoiding action (say a boat runs aground rather than hit you - they may have a claim). However even if you ignore those third party risks, then a 10-15HP engine and SIB are rather easy to nick, and hitting an object in the water could easily cause massive damage to your boat or engine leg - which may make a policy seem worthwile. I'd guess the annual premium would be around £100 or maybe less.

Quote:

if we do use a slipway occasionaly the insurance has been included in our launch fee

I've never heard of that. I do know many slipways insist on insurance.

dogboy · 09 December 2010, 00:24

bristol harbour, with access to the severn estury and several miles inland , £5.00 launch fee with full insurance cover. somewhere else we launched was the same also.

the whole point of the the boat was a bit of cheap fun really. after the insurance they will want sea tax next. i never launch near swimers, and am strugling to see how much damage i can do to another boat with my small soft inflatable. i had not considered fully comp, for self inflicted damage to my boat though. i just assumed 3rd party only, and you forked out for your own damage. i met a few people with small boats like mine this year and none had insurance. just thought it was for much bigger boats. who are the cheapest companies offering boat insurane?

Poly · 09 December 2010, 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogboy

bristol harbour, with access to the severn estury and several miles inland , £5.00 launch fee with full insurance cover. somewhere else we launched was the same also.

the whole point of the the boat was a bit of cheap fun really. after the insurance they will want sea tax next. i never launch near swimers, and am strugling to see how much damage i can do to another boat with my small soft inflatable. i had not considered fully comp, for self inflicted damage to my boat though. i just assumed 3rd party only, and you forked out for your own damage. i met a few people with small boats like mine this year and none had insurance. just thought it was for much bigger boats. who are the cheapest companies offering boat insurane?

If you search here for insurance you'll find various companies recommended. Porthcawl will be a common theme amongst them. Porthcawl's on-line arm is at insurance4boats.co.uk (I think I've remembered that right - but if not google will find insurance 4 boats) - you can get an instant quote there - whereas many others will need to you to call them or email them details.

dogboy · 09 December 2010, 09:13

thanks, will take a look

jake 4589 · 09 December 2010, 09:27

Hi Dogboy,

My insurance costs me less than £60/annum with Navigators & General.
This gives me:-
£3,000,000 liability cover

Fully comp cover on the Boat, Trailler and eqiupment so obviously loss through accident, fire and theft is covered.

Engine recovery in case it falls off.

I'm even covered while towing the thing so that if the trailler should break free and causes an accident thats covered.

Legal services and much more.

at the end of the day look at it this way, If some halfwit driving a car and smashes in to you, how will you feel if they are not insured? Probably lots of feelings but skint will be one of them.

Funny thing with accidents is that people who have them always say that they didn't think it would happen to them......unfortunately it can, and often does even if its not your fault.

Best wishes

Jake

Poly · 09 December 2010, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

Porthcawl's on-line arm is at insurance4boats.co.uk (I think I've remembered that right - but if not google will find insurance 4 boats) -

I remembered wrong it should have been http://www.insurance-4-boats.co.uk - shop around the link I gave you will take you to another site which is more expensive. Jake's price seems good - worth checking if engine legs are covered etc. With an easily slashed SIB I'd also want cover for vandalism if I was ever going to leave it out of sight.

However bringing us back on topic - various people here claim to have over engined their boats without an objection from an insurer. Not sure if any of them have ever made a claim.

9D280 · 09 December 2010, 12:18

As an experiment I used the Noble Online Quote page, and increaced the engine size on my imaginary 4m Sib to 200 Hp before I got a "please phone us to discuss" message.

The implication is they would accept my hypothetical 4m / 199 Hp boat and insure it without further question. Granted, I haven't read the small print......

m chappelow · 09 December 2010, 13:22

One of my old insurance policys in the 1980,s said that i could use what ever size engine i wanted on the boat as long as it wouldent go above 17 knots then a Speed boat clause would be added .

simsy · 09 December 2010, 23:41

I have a 2005 20hp yamaha 2 stroke, 49kg's, same as the 25hp unit they once sold in size and weight. Good engine, fuel usage is minimal....

Insurance for anything will not save you, stop an accident, save your kit or cost you less money. It will cost you more money, in the long run, but will act as a buffer reducing your liability to paying out large amounts of money in one go..... Insurance is not a legal for UK sea's ..... and long may it stay that way....