A few general (SIB) questions from a Newbie

Andy JC · 13 February 2006, 14:22

Hi everybody!

May I start of by saying what an excellent forum I think this is! I have spent the last few weeks trawling through previous posts and have found answers to sooo many of my questions.

I have recently bought a used Zodiac Futura (Fastroller) 4.2m with a 25hp Mercury (both '99) and had a vast amount of questions that needed answering, most of which already have been thanks to Rib.net

Although I realise this is a primaraly a RIB forum I have noticed quite a few posts from SIB owners and wondered if there were many current/previous Futura owners out there that could possibly offer some advice...

1. I don't have a owners manual for the boat and am not sure what order the main tubes, airfloor and speed tubes should be inflated. Can anybody offer me any advice on this?

2. In the summer I hope to pull a wakeboard behind the boat, has anybody had any experience with a similar boat/engine and towing a wakeboard?

3. I wasn't going to bother with a VHF radio as I don't plan to go out much more than a mile or so but found this on Ebay and wondered what people's thoughts were(if any) on it: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cobra-MRHH90-H...QQcmdZViewItem - Doesn't seem bad for the price?!

4. One of the tubes has a patch on it which doesn't appear to loose air but I've heard that with PVC boats a repair is only temporary unless carried out by a pro. Is this true or should I just keep an eye on it?

Sorry for all the questions but any feedback will be most gratefully received.

I hope to take her out this weekend (only in Bristol docks for a trial run) and can't wait to see how she goes, will post an update next week (with maybe a bunch more questions!)

Many Thanks to any responders and keep up the good work peeps

Poly · 13 February 2006, 18:48

I have one of those radios. Cost me marginally more than that 18 months ago. It is not fully waterproof but was supplied with a waterproof bag. The bag was pretty crap and split when we were out in very cold weather recently. The two important limitations are:

1. Power - is 0.5 W or 2 W (high power) compared to 1 W and 5 W for most hand helds. I haven't tested its range but intuitively it must be less than a more powerful handheld. You might only be 1 or 2 miles off shore - but you could be several miles from the C.G. transmitter - so I'm not convinced its a real safety feature (could be false sense of security).

2. Channels. This is basically a US transmitter (albeit apparently legal in the UK) so doesn't have the M1 M2 channels normally used for UK yachting (you might not care though!).

If you do decide to buy this unit I'm not sure that ebay is the BEST option, it will cost you £45.99 inc p&p - you will get it from Marinestore or one of the other UK mail order chandlers for virtually the same price BUT its not an ebay transaction and you have the added advantage of some sort of back up if there are tech problems etc.

In my opinion you would be better with a fully waterproof (submersible) radio. Presumably on a SIB a fixed unit is not practical, so that means a good handheld. They cost about a £100.

I am planning to upgrade to a fixed unit as soon as cost/time allows. It might well be a Cobra though as I am reasonably happy with the cheapy handheld. It did develop a fault (probably after being dropped!) but I managed to fix it myself (bent circuit board causing a short).

Hope that helps,

NEIL

codprawn · 13 February 2006, 19:37

1. Generally speaking put floor in first(wood) then inflate tubes partially all around boat - then bring them up to final pressure - better this way as not to much strain on internal baffles - don't just pump up a chamber fully with a flat one next to it!!! Inflate the keel last.

Don't know about air floors but I would have thought inflate after tubes but before keel.

I have pulled a doughnut behind my 3.1m with a 15hp so you may get away with a wakeboard.

Remember lifejackets and have fun!!!

fjarvis · 13 February 2006, 20:29

Hi,
I've also got a Futura - a MKII C 3.8m with a Suzuki 40HP on the back. Mine is a combination Aluminium and Wooden floor (the boards near the bow are wooden). I also have a jockey console and remote steering / controls on mine. I used to have a smaller SIB with an airfloor and the inflation procedure was to pump the tubes 1/2 full, then the floor to full pressure, tubes to full pressure and finally the hull. With my Futura, I pump the tubes up fully before putting her in the water then inflate the keel and speed tubes once in the water so that they are not damaged by the trailer during launch. I usually do this over at the pontoon by the slip as it's easier there.

I also have one of those cobras, but it's as a last resort backup! I use a Cobra 1w/5w portable VHF as my main backup and have a fully waterproof ICOM fixed DSC VHF on the console, these have a higher aerial (VHF is line of sight so the higher the antenna the better) and at 25w have a reasonable range. As most of my boating is off the weast coast of scotland, range is quite important as i'm often miles from a CG coast station.

Patch wise, as long as the instructions were closely followed and the correct material and glue was used (and the gluing was done at the specified temperature) the patches should be fine.

Cheers,
Fraser

Richard B · 13 February 2006, 23:40

Hi Andyboy. Don't buy a US import VHF... just get a UK spec one. I've been there, done it, and given it away to someone who lives on the other side of the pond. It's not worth the aggro. You will be able license a proper UK sourced VHF for free from the Autumn onwards, so get a decent Icom or Standard Horizon. Stevetheboat aka nautequipe posts here and does good deals, as do Pumpkin Marine Supplies.

Andy JC · 14 February 2006, 15:26

Some really sound advice, thanks guys!

Looks like a radio from the US is a no-go then. Given the time of year there's no rush so I think I'll save me pennies and grab a decent one in a month or so - the Standard Horizon looks like a nice bit of kit. For now at least I've got sat nav (on my phone

) so in an emergency I could call the coastguard and give my exact location

Rich;
I didn't realise a license was necessary, did you mean that you have to pay up until this Autumn but after that there are becoming FOC??

fjarvis;
Do you find the handling is as good as they say it is due to the speed tubes? I've read many people saying that with a bit of chop they're a very hard ride compared to a RIB, would you agree? Yours must absolutely 'fly' with a 40hp on such a light boat, have a tried pulling skiers/boarders etc?

As I said before, any advice is much appreciated

Northern Tim · 14 February 2006, 17:35

Andyboy,
If you want to carry and operate a VHF radio legally, you need a certificate of competance to operate (VHF Short Range Certificate) available by doing a RYA course (about £70). You also need a Ship's Radio Licence, available through Ofcom, which will be free come the autumn, but for now costs about £20.

I've just bought an Icom M1euroV. Cost me £150 at the London Boat Show (they were originally £270). Seem like a good bit of kit - the coastguard use 'em! I'm sure other folks on here have other views on what's good, most of which you should be able to find by searching the forum.
If you want to pick my brains re:handhelds, I've just spent quite a bit of time working out what to look for on the different models so feel free to PM me.

Tim

Poly · 14 February 2006, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andyboy

For now at least I've got sat nav (on my phone

) so in an emergency I could call the coastguard and give my exact location

unless it gets wet in which case you are lost with no way to get help!

mobile coverage at sea is notoriously bad (not many transmitters!!!) and the CG get a bit frustrated as they cant direction find on your signal when you put out a distress call.

fjarvis · 14 February 2006, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andyboy

Some really sound advice, thanks guys!

fjarvis;
Do you find the handling is as good as they say it is due to the speed tubes? I've read many people saying that with a bit of chop they're a very hard ride compared to a RIB, would you agree? Yours must absolutely 'fly' with a 40hp on such a light boat, have a tried pulling skiers/boarders etc?

The handling is quite different to a RIB as the speed tubes stop the yaw of the hull in a turn, so it feels a tad odd compared to a RIB. It does handle nicely though. It was fine in a force 4 last saturday, but I certainly couldn't use full throttle! I've not tried pulling anybody yet, I'm sure I'll give it a go at some point though :-) And yes, it does fly!

Rogan · 15 February 2006, 14:47

I have a Futura and it tows skiers fine. Only problem is when I tow my really big friends. Then it's tough to get them out and maintain speed in the turns. Also don't expect great skiing, because the forces you can create with the skiis pull the boat all over. I am not too sure a 25hp is going to be enough to really get going, but you can always stick to tubing. We named our boat the "red BASTARD" for a reason. It can beat the bloody crap out of you in certain conditions.

As for the speed tubes you can see them working in this video.

http://checkerboardhydepark.com/Wave%20Jumping.mov

Andy JC · 15 February 2006, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

unless it gets wet in which case you are lost with no way to get help!

mobile coverage at sea is notoriously bad (not many transmitters!!!) and the CG get a bit frustrated as they cant direction find on your signal when you put out a distress call.

Polwart:
I do keep the phone and GPS device in a waterproof case but it's a very good point and I fully intend on getting a handheld VHF very soon. Thanks for the advice.

fjarvis:
Thanks for the info, it's reassuring to hear positive things from another futura owner

Rogan:
Total respect, what an awsome little vid that is!!!

Thanks for posting that. Talk about big air, what conditions would you say you were in.. 4/5/6?? I enjoyed that more than watching some box office hits

I have owned a 3m Avon with a 15hp for the last few years and have had so much fun with it that I decided to swap my bike(CBR600) for a bigger faster SIB (before I get banned from driving

) - it's good to see that the Futura should offer similar frills to the bike!

I was thinking more of towing a wakeboard than skis as apparently they don't require so much grunt to pull - I'm not worried about doing massive jumps, just getting out of the water on flat sea would be enough for me. Have you tried towing a wakeboard?? also how do you tow, do you use a ski harness with a pulley set up?

Rogan · 16 February 2006, 14:51

Whats up Andy,

The waves that day were 6 to 8 feet but we were on the protected side of a small bay. This way the waves were rolling in smaller without all the wind associated further out. It's rare to get the right conditions for that kind of boating. You can see the waves were 3-5 feet and were rolling where we were boating. As for the wakeboarding. Yes we have gone wakeboarding before. If you know how to get out it shouldn't be a problem but if you are learning the boat may not have enough grunt to pop you up. Even with 40hp it could be a struggle sometimes. Also as you turn or carve with the board it slows the boat. We use a fully adjustable prop from "ProPulse" that makes it very easy to change pitch. Allows us to set it for skiing so we can pop people out of the water. We use a simple ski rope attached to the transom by way of two ibolts. Also Andy, I would try and get a bigger engine. 25 might be good for wave jumping because it weighs less and hence puts less stress on the transom but for ear to ear evil smiling and the occasional evil cackel as the last 10th of the throttle is twisted you need more hp.
I am not sure if you have a console set up or not. We purchased 4 DaKine WindSurfing foot straps and installed then on the floor boards. This is a must if you want to do really insane moves in the rough where you can't sit on the floor of the boat. Anyways, just a thought

Here's another movie for you. Exploring Lake Michigan islands.
http://checkerboardhydepark.com/Sle...ar%20Dunes4.mov

Andy JC · 16 February 2006, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogan

Whats up Andy,

We use a fully adjustable prop from "ProPulse" that makes it very easy to change pitch. Allows us to set it for skiing so we can pop people out of the water.

Also Andy, I would try and get a bigger engine. 25 might be good for wave jumping because it weighs less and hence puts less stress on the transom but for ear to ear evil smiling and the occasional evil cackel as the last 10th of the throttle is twisted you need more hp.

I am not sure if you have a console set up or not. We purchased 4 DaKine WindSurfing foot straps and installed then on the floor boards.

Here's another movie for you. Exploring Lake Michigan islands.
http://checkerboardhydepark.com/Sle...ar%20Dunes4.mov

Hi Rogan

I'm somewhat restricted as far as engine size is concearned as it all has to fit in the boot(trunk to you

) of the car and sometimes I have to manage it on my own - 25hp is about the limit of what I can handle (much as I'd love a 40hp

). Also I have an inflatable floor so the max recomended size is 30hp - the floor has a strap on either side running front to back so I was thinking of making up some foot straps to attach to them.

I've seen those ProPulse props in my local shop and wondered what they were like. I've read about mixed views on them, some say they can reduce top speed and others that the blades shear off easily under load. The fact that the pitch is adjustable might be the answer for me due to my restriction in engine size. I think they're all 4 blade which may account for the reduced top end, have you found any downside in using it?

The second link you have posted doesn't seem to work (have tried a few ways of opening it). If you could fix it or maybe mail the file to me I'd really like to see it. My address is andyclarke1@hotmail.com

Thanks for all the info so far

Rogan · 16 February 2006, 17:40

As for the ProPulse prop the first thing I thought when I saw them was "these are plastic!". We only bought one because we needed to determine the right rpm range on our engine. So we got one and never went back. I think you do loose a little on the top end but the hole shot on them is amazing. Actually you should check out thier site. Click on the blue section on the bottom that says "1300 MILES THROUGH THE USA WITH PROPULSE" theres a section about us using thier prop. http://www.propulse.se/ The Blades do not shear of under load! Somebody assembeled the prop wrong. Also when you hit stuff and break a blade it's replaceble for something like $10. I'll try and fix the movie link.

Gotta run

Andy JC · 20 February 2006, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogan

"1300 MILES THROUGH THE USA WITH PROPULSE" theres a section about us using thier prop.

Thats quite a journey to take on in a SIB!! How long did it take you and how did you get back, or was it a round trip?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogan

As for the ProPulse prop the first thing I thought when I saw them was "these are plastic!". We only bought one because we needed to determine the right rpm range on our engine. So we got one and never went back. I think you do loose a little on the top end but the hole shot on them is amazing. Actually you should check out thier site.

You've sold it to me (they should offer you comission

), think I'll have to invest in one of these before the summer arrives

Couple more things - How far up and across the transom have you got the towing points? have you got a close up pic? Was thinking too far down would make it harder for the boarder to pop up and too far up would make it hard to keep the front down when accelerating.

Lastly, any progress with fixing the broken link yet?

Thanks again

Tim M · 20 February 2006, 14:29

Quote:

so get a decent Icom or Standard Horizon

I believe Daveh on here had an offer on Standard Horizon hand helds recently. Might be worth PMing him....

Rogan · 20 February 2006, 22:18

Andy,

I've got some pics somewhere. I'll find them for you. Try this movie link http://checkerboardhydepark.com/SleepingBearDunes5.mov

Andy JC · 21 February 2006, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

I believe Daveh on here had an offer on Standard Horizon hand helds recently. Might be worth PMing him....

Tim:
I'm going to have to wait for a month or so before I can take my Short range VHF course. Maybe I'll give him a shout after that. Thanks anyway!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogan

Try this movie link http://checkerboardhydepark.com/SleepingBearDunes5.mov

Rogan:
The sound works on this one but there's no picture.
I've tried opening it with real player/quicktime/windows media player. Also tried saving target/opening in new window but get the same problem of no picture