Achilles SGX-122 vs. Defender 380

Kurt · 28 November 2018, 23:57

Looking for opinions on either boat or other suggestions. Currently have an Achilles LSR310 (roll up aluminum floor) with Tohatsu 9.9 two stroke. Love the package, but have come down with a case of "two footitis" and am considering the two boats in the title.

Our boat and motor ride in a bay of our RV and stays inflated and used daily anywhere from a week to month. We use it for fishing, duck hunting, pulling wake surf boards (we're light), and cocktail cruises around the marinas. We primarily use the inflatable in San Diego Bay and the Gulf of California.

New motor is planned to be the Suzuki 20 EFI four stroke. Important to us would be durability, steadiness while standing to fish, and as comfortable of a ride as is possible in a boat this size in chop/waves.

Any thoughts? Thank you,

Kurt

jeffstevens763@g · 29 November 2018, 11:35

hi Kurt

personally i would go achilles hypalon rated to 35 hp solid built boats 4 chambers + keel.
the defender has a good spec especially with overpressure valves cheaper in PVC.
consider mercury HD PVC or hypalon too also ceasa surf cat hypalon or PVC.
achilles with the suzuki 20 hp would be a nice set up

Kurt · 29 November 2018, 17:12

Thank you for the input Jeff. Surf Cat looks interesting. We've been very satisfied with our Achilles and don't think you can go wrong with one, I am intrigued though by the Defender brand boats. Have never seen one or seen anything written first hand about them. They must sell them because they keep building them. They state the CSM is commercial grade and the boat weighs considerably more than the Achilles 12 and 13 foot boats (Defender 234lbs, Achilles 12 167lbs, Achilles 13 187lbs). They also have additional rub strakes and wear patches. I would guess they would be relatively "sturdy".

jeffstevens763@g · 29 November 2018, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt

Thank you for the input Jeff. Surf Cat looks interesting. We've been very satisfied with our Achilles and don't think you can go wrong with one, I am intrigued though by the Defender brand boats. Have never seen one or seen anything written first hand about them. They must sell them because they keep building them. They state the CSM is commercial grade and the boat weighs considerably more than the Achilles 12 and 13 foot boats (Defender 234lbs, Achilles 12 167lbs, Achilles 13 187lbs). They also have additional rub strakes and wear patches. I would guess they would be relatively "sturdy".

Yep agree the defender spec is very good it's about 12 lbs heavier than my Mercury which the extras would account for the extra weight I'm very pleased with mine so no dought the defender will do the job but with no feedback from others or see one I wouldn't buy personally.
I know someone who is buying a surfcat it's a very good boat and well worth a look.
You know the Achilles and what your getting so that's got to be the number one at present.
The surfcat would suit your activities with the more efficient hull shape and the 20 Suzuki

jeffstevens763@g · 30 November 2018, 17:18

Worth a look too part of zodiac the 3.8 Ali floor might be up your street with speed tubes.

https://www.aka-marine.com

Kurt · 30 November 2018, 21:28

Thank you Jeff. I looked them up and they look interesting, albeit more expensive. I like the comments about smoother ride in chop. Would the Suzuki 20 four stoke be enough for the Zodiac? What is the preferred engine for that boat?

jeffstevens763@g · 01 December 2018, 11:10

The air floor one I looked at yesterday 3.7 m takes a 25 max so 20 would be a great combo without looking not sure what the Ali floor Max is 3.8 but a 20 would still perform well a mate on here has a 4m honwave with a 20 Suzuki and it performs really well.
To be honest the AKA boat is a futura with the same price tag much the same design as the surfcat with speed tubes.
Now another in the mix is the new quicksilver sport 420 HD in grey or red retailing at £1540.00 over here also has speed tubes don't know much about it as yet but with a look at that price if it's anything like my Mercury it will be a sound boat at the right money

Kurt · 04 December 2018, 00:44

Thanks again Jeff!

Call me crazy, but I'm leaning toward the Defender just to try one out, someone has to do it and report about them :-) I called Defender and spoke at length with a man that I believe was very knowledgeable on SIBs and RIBs. He said the Defenders are their own design but built in the same plant as other, larger in sales, name brands. If I compare the look/design of the Zodiacs and Bombards to the Defenders, I see similarities.

He said the Defender is a much heavier duty boat and the 234 lb weight would support that statement. Its similar in weight to an equal length Mercury HD or Bombard. Its missing some fancy plastic/rubber bits that are on some of the others, but I think the basic boat should be excellent. Also, they have proven to me and many others they are a great company to work with.

Please let me know if you think I'm crazy or not considering something :-)

Thanks,

Kurt

jeffstevens763@g · 04 December 2018, 09:55

no dont think your crazy at all it's a good spec boat, to be honest i buy HD boats so it will take the abuse i'm not one to mollycoddle my boats its a tool to use IMO. Price always reflects the spec, i think all companies want to sell boats so they have to be up there on spec, design, lifespan with each other. personally i wanted a bombard when i bought mine but it was at the time zodiac were having problems, my dealer offered me the mercury because he sold a lot to commercial companies as work boats that was enough for me so i bought
salesmen can sway you but if you know a bit yourself you know when they genuinely know their stuff & others have said the company are good its a safe bet i think. if you get to have a look at one would be best if still unsure

Kurt · 04 December 2018, 18:43

Found another potential option on the other side of the spectrum. Dux UD-400. Just got off the phone with the company founder and he said it will do everything we want it to do and he will make it any color or dimensions we want. Said the new 20 hp motors would be fine on them. Supposedly very strong boats.

duxboats.com

What do you guys think?

Thanks,

Kurt

jeffstevens763@g · 05 December 2018, 10:04

kurt

the dux is a different boat altogether with a very good beam 7 foot 1 inch it will outperform any sib at 20 hp good fishing platform the beam will allow sitting on the floor in rough conditions good when you have kids on board, not sure about the material i guess its a PVC type cost wise all in approaching $4500.
on the other hand looking on one site the defender 380 in hypalon cost wise similar and hypalon will fair much better especially in sunny climes in terms of life although the new PVC materials haven't had time to show a comparison.
the defender in PVC is half the cost which would allow for more $ spent on the engine say going up to a 25 hp which would have more than enough power to do all you need it won't be in the top RPM range all the time & more economical IMO.
when i bought mine i looked at hypalon 2.3rds the cost again my thought was i could have two boats nearly for that price linked with a 5 year PVC material guarantee the boat will last at least 10 years so i put the money into the engine knowing that 25 hp will do all i need without flogging it to death on every outing.OMO

Kurt · 07 December 2018, 02:12

Thanks again Jeff

Highland Haggis · 10 December 2018, 07:46

Hi Kurt I have the Suzuki 20hp like Jeff say I do travel very light with my camping gear that's how I get good fuel economy but do feel that I should have got the Suzuki 25 hp if funds allow you I would say take the bigger engine with the package

Kurt · 10 December 2018, 17:50

Thank you for the input Highland! You burst my bubble though of thinking the 20hp 4T were a magical compromise of relative light weight and almost the power of a 25hp ;-)

I’m back to thinking about Jeff’s recommendation to consider the Zodiac Futura Mk2C. Anyone have any first hand experience comparing them to conventional SIBs in terms of rough water capability and performance? In terms of quality I would hope they are quite good considering the price they command.

Thanks,

Kurt

Kurt · 10 December 2018, 19:04

I like the Dux and Surf Cat but think they have an open transom for a reason :-). Might not be the greatest for carrying dry people or fishing gear.

69cmw · 10 December 2018, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt

I like the Dux and Surf Cat but think they have an open transom for a reason :-). Might not be the greatest for carrying dry people or fishing gear.

Surfcat has a choice of open or closed transom [emoji106]

jeffstevens763@g · 10 December 2018, 19:57

Kurt

Boiling it down the speed tube boat will be a better ride on the plane no different at displacement speed but will perform on the plane with a 20 as good as if not better than a SIB with a 25 if propped correct. the engines weight difference 44 kg or 62 kg isn't to be ignored both for performance and manoeuvrability on the beach etc.
As said the transom isn't an issue if you go that route, I know of a couple of guys with the futura and rave about them.
It's a sweet shop situation you're in so much choice.

Highland Haggis · 10 December 2018, 20:38

Gazzago on here has the 25hp with a 3.8 the speed tubes are good he could turn on a dime my honwave T40 is a good set up with a 20hp but when I took my mate with me plus all the camping gear I would have liked that wee bit more power just for back up

Kurt · 14 December 2018, 04:33

After going round and round considering all different boats and no two salesmen (even from the same store) being in agreement on which would be "ideal" for my needs, I think for numerous reasons its prudent to stick with Achilles and get the an SGX. Instead of a 20 EFI, I am considering the Yamaha 25 EFI for more power as was suggested. I really don't want to add the weight, but am considering it.

So if I go with the 25hp, that leads to another question. If you start with the 25hp at 126 lbs, would it be prudent to add four more pounds and $30 and get the long shaft, then add another 20 lbs and $750 to get the SGX 132 instead of the SGX 122?

Manufacturer recommends 20hp on 122 and 30hp on 132. As anyone, I would prefer too much power over not enough. But, I think it would be absolutely crazy to consider lifting anything heavier than the 25hp to and from the boat and pulling it up and down the beach. Think I may be able to get away with Danard transom wheels with the SGX 122 and 20hp, probably be smarter to go with a Wheeleez trolley with the SGX 132 and 25hp, so that adds another $600...

Any thoughts?

jeffstevens763@g · 14 December 2018, 11:16

personally i would go SGX 132 with the long shaft although looking at the specs i wonder why the long shaft as the tube size is the same unless its a recessed transom on the SGX 122 to take standard shaft.the longer wider boat would be best especially with the trolley set up as below. i would be tempted to buy a cheap sack barrow to transport the engine around to minimise carrying too.
the yam is a good engine and better if you have a dealer near you for servicing.

https://beachwheelsaustralia.com/pro...h-49cm-wheels/

consider propping down for the wakeboard stuff to keep performance up for the bit of extra weight.