Alternatives to RIBs?! - Page 2

codprawn · 23 January 2008, 12:26

They are really nice boats but I remember reading about an accident with one being "tested" by Dickies I think. They tried a tight turn on full lock from a standing start and flipped it. Not as forgiving as a RIB.

How much did it cost to hire as a matter of interest???

Into The Blue · 23 January 2008, 17:23

I think Mr Codprawn has struk the nail quite squarely on the head. I am one of those boaters with a foot in each camp, a rib for the craic and a bow rider for the family. I've been looking for a couple of years for the ultimate SUV and you need a lot on money.
The best compromise I found in thr rib camp was a scorcerer, really amazing hull but can do the bowrider thing preytty well. Missus was put off by the 55knt top speed and that with a 150 mariner.
You have to work out what you want to do, what weather you're going out in and how wet you want to get. There are a couple of yank bowriders with good hulls, Chris Craft and Cobalt, I've seen some 2nd hand Chris Craft's with a 5.7 V8 going for under £20k, they really fly and can handle some weather, but not like a rib. But if you want to fish, forget it, you'll make too much mess and all that carpet will drive you nuts. Good luck. Maybe you should go to boats and outboards and simply filter with your top price and see what comes up.

codprawn · 23 January 2008, 17:27

I think my new dream all rounder boat is the Botnia Targa - maybe the 31' but even the 27' moored in my local harbour looks awesome. Loads of deck space - good accomodation and wheelhouse - start at about £100,000 though!!! And they look a little top heavy - not as stable as a RIB I shouldn't think.

http://www.targa.fi/index2.php

Lordy · 23 January 2008, 18:52

Thanks Into The Blue - I started off just wanting a little SIB to run around Salcombe estuary and maybe get me along the coast a bit, primarily in the summer.

Now we're talking Chris Crafts and Botnias!!

Haven't seen a Botnia, but stood and drooled at a Chris Craft 'Launch' at Excel...until I heard the price! Still, one day, maybe...

General consensus seems to be swinging towards these open day boats - Seamarks, Boston Whalers etc. - and hey - the Seamark has a nice little table that the Lordys can all sit around for lunch as we bob about at anchor on a beautiful sunny day off a deserted white sand beach off the south Devon coast. Dreamer, me? Never!

As you say, a RIB/SIB is great for the craic, so if I go second-hand on the SUB who knows - maybe I can get the best of both worlds, even as a newbie. (I've just seen a nice little Zodiac Futura 4.7m with a 30hp 2 stroke for £2850 - luvverly!!)

Cheers!!

RichardB · 23 January 2008, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordy

sport utility boat

Hmm so that will be a SUB then...

I had a look at bow-riders and wasn't personally convinced in anything but a calm.

One that did catch my eye at the boatshow was the ZAR range. Bit of a hybrid between pure rib and bow-rider style but did seem to rather fit the sport utility bill. Claims a deep V and good weather handling but I've no direct experience.

I was going to seriously try out until I found something that fitted our circumstances better.

codprawn · 23 January 2008, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordy

Thanks Into The Blue - I started off just wanting a little SIB to run around Salcombe estuary and maybe get me along the coast a bit, primarily in the summer.

Now we're talking Chris Crafts and Botnias!!

Haven't seen a Botnia, but stood and drooled at a Chris Craft 'Launch' at Excel...until I heard the price! Still, one day, maybe...

General consensus seems to be swinging towards these open day boats - Seamarks, Boston Whalers etc. - and hey - the Seamark has a nice little table that the Lordys can all sit around for lunch as we bob about at anchor on a beautiful sunny day off a deserted white sand beach off the south Devon coast. Dreamer, me? Never!

As you say, a RIB/SIB is great for the craic, so if I go second-hand on the SUB who knows - maybe I can get the best of both worlds, even as a newbie. (I've just seen a nice little Zodiac Futura 4.7m with a 30hp 2 stroke for £2850 - luvverly!!)

Cheers!!

Whatever you get I am sure you will have fun. My little quicksilver 3.1 with a suzuki 15hp is a great laugh and I have even crossed the Bristol Channel in it - a trip of about 25 miles each way!!!

Lordy · 23 January 2008, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardB

Hmm so that will be a SUB then...

I simply plagiarise the esteemed Mr Ian Parkes!!

Lordy · 23 January 2008, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Whatever you get I am sure you will have fun. My little quicksilver 3.1 with a suzuki 15hp is a great laugh and I have even crossed the Bristol Channel in it - a trip of about 25 miles each way!!!

BLIMEY Codprawn - I would never have thought you could get a SIB that far. I assume this is unusual, or it was one of those 'flat as glass' days?

Anyway - now you've really got me thinking - the Zodiac I've seen can probably get me further than I'd realized.

Thanks again!!

Pazter · 23 January 2008, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardB

One that did catch my eye at the boatshow was the ZAR range. Bit of a hybrid between pure rib and bow-rider style but did seem to rather fit the sport utility bill. Claims a deep V and good weather handling but I've no direct experience.

My husband and I took delivery of our Zar 57 Welldeck last year. We were looking for a boat that would competently handle the Solent chop but also fitted the utility aspect. We keep the boat on the dry stack at Port Hamble and have enjoyed smooth runs down to Christchurch, Chichester and lunch stops at Newtown Creek and the Beaulieu river.

When we were looking we found a couple of the key advantages of the boat over conventional RIBs were the flexible seating/sunbathing arrangements and the removable dining table, which is a must for enjoying lunch with friends!

We found the sea-keeping was far superior to other boats that we tested, the ride being particularly soft and dry. One of our plans for the forthcoming season is to drive down to the West Country, rent a cottage and enjoy exploring one or two rivers down there. We are considering purchasing the optional camping tent so that we can spend the odd night on board for a new adventure!

If a sports utility boat is what you're looking for, I recommend looking further at this range.

ian parkes · 23 January 2008, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordy

BLIMEY Codprawn - I would never have thought you could get a SIB that far. I assume this is unusual, or it was one of those 'flat as glass' days?

Anyway - now you've really got me thinking - the Zodiac I've seen can probably get me further than I'd realized.

Thanks again!!

Little sibs will get you miles , we often did 50 miles in a day , its just when the return leg gets choppy wind over tide etc its a real nightmare for comfort reasons only ,I never felt unsafe in the sib . It like riding pilion on a dirt bike .

Daveboy 71 · 23 January 2008, 20:57

I think it is fair to say you have seen a real diversity of replies to your original post. The crux of your dilemma revolves around what you actually want the boat for. You said initially that you wanted cruise around the Salcombe estuary/maybe a short cruise along the coast. From personal experience a SIB (eg. Zodiac FR 3.4M; 15HP) would struggle to deliver this versatility. I took such a boat to Salcombe last year and couldn't get out of the estuary due to the conditions. In contrast, the dive rib was able to get out of the estuary without any problem and was quickly on the way towards Dartmouth. Given the unpredictable weather/conditions and the limited holiday opportunities we have in the UK, I would (and did) go for the rib option as it will simply do most of what a SIB will do but with the added advantage of being able to take a crab sandwich in Dartmouth when you fancy (within reason) - the missus and kids will also thank you!!

Just a few thoughts - I was very excited with my SIB then realised it didn't quite match expectations. The rib has done much better.........maybe a Botnia Targa will truely deliver!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordy

BLIMEY Codprawn - I would never have thought you could get a SIB that far. I assume this is unusual, or it was one of those 'flat as glass' days?

Anyway - now you've really got me thinking - the Zodiac I've seen can probably get me further than I'd realized.

Thanks again!!

codprawn · 23 January 2008, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordy

BLIMEY Codprawn - I would never have thought you could get a SIB that far. I assume this is unusual, or it was one of those 'flat as glass' days?

Anyway - now you've really got me thinking - the Zodiac I've seen can probably get me further than I'd realized.

Thanks again!!

Just because I did it doesn't really mean it was sensible............

It felt pretty exposed out in the middle but coastal hopping is fine!!!

Poly · 23 January 2008, 22:00

You are not going to get a Botnia Targa (any size) nor I think a Zar (any size) for the budget in question. I am becoming increasingly convinced that you can't find the perfect compromise and get it with a bargain budget. Something has to give - speed, looks, comfort, seakeeping, safety, cost (and each person has different priorities otherwise we would all drive the same boats). Possibly the only way to get everything for less - is one of the boat share schemes like Lynx or RibShack... and then compromise on how much you use it.

Matt · 23 January 2008, 22:04

This was a really good thread right up until this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Into The Blue

55knt top speed and that with a 150 mariner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Into The Blue

they really fly and can handle some weather, but not like a rib.

Lordy · 24 January 2008, 08:30

You're right, Daveboy and Polwart - it's difficult if not impossible to find the perfect compromise, particularly on a budget. But I'm not trying to be cheap - it's simply about means.

I started off wanting a little runaround for the family, just to get us on the water, that might pull the kids on a doughnut or something. Not looking for high-speed, wave-jumping thrills. There seemed plenty of options around the £2/3k mark, eg

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F163065
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/TML158
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F169561

I could even have got a new Excel and used outboard for around this mark.

Then I noticed that for not alot more I could get a fibreglass bowrider, something that might take us further afield, as many RIBNET experts had told me that a SIB is pretty useless in the chop. So I raised my budget slightly, to consider this type of thing:

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F167165
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/DBO039
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F161537

I was getting into deep water here - if you'll excuse the pun - as at this budget the boats were pretty old and being a newbie I wouldn't have known what to look out for.

I then visited Excel BS with Mrs Lordy, where we saw all sorts of finance deals on brand new (bowrider) boats at around the £15k mark. A big leap from my little £2k runaround, but thanks to all the great advice I've had on Ribnet, a wise move in my eyes.

I therefore posted this thread, looking for a forum as good as this for fibreglass boats - they don't exist!! - and have received all this additional and quite unexpected advice from Ribnetters.

So, it may look like I'm cheap, hard to please and going around in circles, but with all the excellent advice I've had from the enthusiastic experts on this forum - both on inflatables and fibreglass boats - it is difficult to find that perfect compromise.

For now I'll probably pass on the Botnia, but am giving serious thought to a semi second-hand open dayboat AND (as a tender?!!) a second-hand SIB.
Not sure how I'm going to get this past Mrs Lordy, but it seems the perfect compromise, albeit a little excessive for a newbie.

Oh - and without a shadow of a doubt, a day or two's training in speedboat handling.

Sorry to waffle....

Nos4r2 · 24 January 2008, 09:24

Are you sure you want the fuel costs of a petrol inboard and finance on top?

Lordy · 24 January 2008, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Are you sure you want the fuel costs of a petrol inboard and finance on top?

Good question, but open dayboats seem to be mostly outboard and hopefully the semi-secondhand option will cut finance costs considerably.

Must admit, though, hadn't appreciated there was a major fuel consumption difference between outboard and inboard, though understand the 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke.

Thanks Nos4r2 - more good advice to add to my tick list!

9D280 · 24 January 2008, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Are you sure you want the fuel costs of a petrol inboard and finance on top?

Eh? There's plenty of Rib sized cabin day boats designed for Outboards..... And for a given size of boat why will an X litre inboard drink more than a similar sized outboard (Assuming a nice new-ish 4 stroke) , which you'd need for similar performance? Especially when with inboard you can use diesel.......

Nos4r2 · 24 January 2008, 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

Eh? There's plenty of Rib sized cabin day boats designed for Outboards.....

Yep, and they are probably a better option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

And for a given size of boat why will an X litre inboard drink more than a similar sized outboard (Assuming a nice new-ish 4 stroke) , which you'd need for similar performance? Especially when with inboard you can use diesel.......

The stated budget is highly unlikely to stretch to a diesel.

Working on the stated budget,you need more HP in an inboard petrol for the same performance as an outboard.<edit for Jono's/any other pedant's sake>in the same hull</edit>(off the top of my head it's about 140hp in an inboard for the same performance as a 90hp outboard-but I may be wrong. It's not far off though.) The fuel consumption rule of thumb of 10% of HP in gallons per hour still applies.

Unless of course you were really lucky and managed to pick something up with a Vario or a Mercruiser 1.7 diesel.

Lordy · 24 January 2008, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

The fuel consumption rule of thumb of 10% of HP in gallons per hour still applies.

At last - a calculation I can put to fuel consumption. Thanks Nos4r2.

So, if I had a 90hp and petrol is about £4.85 a gallon, does that mean I'd be looking at (9 x 4.85) £43.65 an hour to run?

And does the same calculation apply to 2-stroke?

Helps to focus the mind...and the budget!!