An old sailer new to the "POWER" of boats

[Capt. KAVEMAN]

Hello and greetings to all;

I’m new to the inflatable world of boating and am looking for a little info.
Well I’ll give you guys a little background first. I’ve been racing lasers and Hobie cats for 10 years, but have little powerboat experience.

Well I now live on the harbor front in Toronto Canada and can’t afford the space for a trailer or dock space. This has led me to SIB’s. I can then head down to the beach fill and launch. Plus in Ontario we have 4 thousand lakes that are over 3km in diameter.

As I digress…

Well I’m considering a Sea Eagle 14 SR
It can hold a 40hp 79kg Outboard.
http://www.boatownersworld.ca/seaeagle/14_e.htm

I will always have myself and at least one other dude for the rigging and launch.

Here are my Questions.

1. Is there any 40 or 30 hp outboards out there that weigh 79kg? I can’t seem to find any.

2. What should I look for in a outboard for SIB’s? Technically speaking

3. Am I crazy to think I can do a beach launch with a 80kg outboard? I was thinking we would bring the inflated boat down the beach then the outboard.

4. Is a 50km one way trip no problem? If so how big of a fuel cell do I need? My cousin rides his SeaDoo from my parents house across Lake Ontario to my condo which is about 50km one way.

5. Is it better to have one large fuel cell or many small ones.

6. And last but not least … for now, I love used cars. They cost so much less for quality products. Is it worth looking at used outboards? Or is this a product best picked up new?

Well thanks for your time, I hope to chat more in the near future

Capt. KAVEMAN

[Slaphead]

Hello and welcome to ribnet.

To answer your questions:-

1. Yes, a Tohatsu (Nissan) 30hp two stroke weighs 51kg
I have a 50hp Tohatsu on my Gemini sib weighing 72kg

2. A basic two/four stroke with tiller handle/ manual start with no electronics.
Probably short shaft. Go for a reliable make.

3. No need to. Fit a pair of launching wheels to the transom rated for the
weight you intend to carry- with the boat empty.

4. Should be okay but test fuel comsumption locally before making the trip.


5. 2 x 25 litre tanks or 1 x 25 litre tank with a couple of jerry cans would
suffice. I would avoid carrying a huge fuel tank as you are stuck with it
even if you are only doing small local trips.

6. If your engine is coming from a fresh water origin I would buy a used
second hand two stroke in good order which is the max the transom will
take. Weight penalties on a four stroke outweigh the benefits on a fully
loaded sib.

Good luck in your search.

[prairie tuber]

I'd second everything that Slaphead had stated. Get the best launching wheel set you can find - they need to have large pneumatic tires. Also you'll want to stick with carbureted 2 stroke motors with that set up, which nowadays means finding something used in good running condition. The good news there is that both Yamaha and Tohatsu make extremely durable and reliable 2 stroke motors in the 25/30 hp and the 40/50 hp ranges.

The sea bright boats are made by a Korean company called Zebec. Zebec makes boats for a number of different brand names - it is possible that there may be a few dealers in your area selling virtually identical boats under different brand names, so you should have some options for comparison shopping within the price range you are looking for. Generally, they are relatively inexpensive SIBs of OK quality.

With regard to crossing Lake Ontario, how violent does the lake get? How large of waves might you see and how quickly could they whip up? If it can be anything at all like Lake Winnipeg (where + 12 foot waves can occur), I would not recommend trying to cross it with the set up you are describing until you've really familiarized yourself with that boats capabilities. You probably already have a handheld VHF radio because of your sailing background, but that would be a must for crossing any sea-sized lake.

To reiterate what Slaphead said, carrying 2 or more 20-25 litre fuel tanks is a much better option than one big tank. That will give you alot more flexiblity to adjust to the length of trip you are planning, and for hauling fuel for a beach launch. I will typically carry 3-4 20 litre NATO Jerry cans with me (that have been rigged to pug my fuel line directly into) on most weekend trips. I will have a range of about 60 km per 20 litre tank with a 40 hp 2 stroke motor and a 4.7 m SIB.

[Locozodiac]

Originally Posted by Capt. KAVEMAN

Hello and greetings to all;

Well I’m considering a Sea Eagle 14 SR, It can hold a 40hp 79kg Outboard.

1. Is there any 40 or 30 hp outboards out there that weigh 79kg? I can’t seem to find any.

Well thanks for your time, I hope to chat more in the near future

Capt. KAVEMAN

Welcome too Capt..

If you would like to for the highest engine HP power the Seaeagle 430 sib transom's can handle, there is a light weight interesting short tail Tohatsu 2 strokes, 2 cylinder engine alternative: Tohatsu 40-C (Compact) don't confuse witht the standard 40, being a 72 KG and 700 CC engine. The 40 C difference compared to a 30 HP is : 52 to 59, 500 to 430, just 7 KG and 70 CC more. With gas consumption at full throttle of 17 Ltr/Hour, compared to 15 Lt/Hr of the 30 HP and 13 Lt/Hr as of the 25 HP.

If't still too heavy for your carrying/launching needs go for a Tohatsu 25 and update it to a 30 HP with very low cost. See if still possible to get 2 strokes, engines in Canada. If not look for used ones. Launching wheels a must buy issue. Same 4 strokes engines, much heavier, abot 10 KG more.

Yes, look for a Zebec brand dealer if possible to find one. Have still in use a PVC Quicksilver 330 made by Zebec with heavy 10 years use, and still in opt sea conditions. Zebec still a bit pricy compared to other China made/asembled sibs. That's why the extra cost to.

Happy Sibbing

[dverstege]

Hi Capt:
Answer to #4, crossing Lake Ontario on any small craft to me would be playing with fire. One of these times your cousin is going to get burnt. Being an old sailer you should know that any body of water should be respected.

[Capt. KAVEMAN]

Hey Everyone;

Thanks for the quick and informative responses. All were welcome.

I think I will do more research into a better quality SIB first. When looking for a product I look for the best quality product for the lowest price.
(Why get a lambo when a corvette works just the same…. Just not as fancy)
I noticed a lot of people use Gemini boats. How is the Surf GSX?
Does anyone know if CAT SIB’s are sold in Canada?


Hey guys I have to explain the “Crossing Lake Ontario”

When my Cuz comes across the lake (once a year) they use 3, 3 person seadoos with two people on each. (so they can ditch one if needed) They contact the coastguard before the crossing and have proper GPS and Radios.

Yes the lake is crazy. I have seen a windy day turn black as night and lighting all around. I had to turtle my laser for 10min or so because I was to afraid. And this was a day that called for 20% pop. The largest waves I have seen were… about ten feet. Hard to tell. We were on my buddies “Dart 18” Cat. I tell you it feels weird getting airtime on a sailboat, because it is so quite, your just in the air all of a sudden.

I have massive respect for this lake. Just Google Ship wreaks lake Ontario and you’ll see there is more boat then sand down there.

With all that, At 6am on a Sunday morning with no call for wind or rain, at least 2 people and all our safety gear I would still like to give her a go. Not as a normal thing, but as a “most extreme thing I would want to”

Thanks again

I’ll have more questions in the weeks to come.


p.s you guys have a great site here... lost of info.

[prairie tuber]

If L. Ontario will be where you do most of your boating, the only type of SIB that I would even consider would be a Cat-hulled SIB. That leaves you with a choice of 3 brands, which are;

1. AMI 'advanced cat' (3.3 - 4.6 meters, PVC only). This is a Seattle area based company that has there boats manufactured in Taiwan. There is a dealer based in Sidney, BC. who goes by Mad Dog Extreme.

http://www.maddogextreme.com/

I took a small one of these out for a test drive. It was OK but not built anywhere near as beefy as the Gemini (and I would imagine the Ceasar) boats are. You'll notice that the very bottom picture on their homepage is actually of a Gemini zapcat rather than one of their own boats (what's up with that?).


2. Ceasar 'surfcat' (4.1 meters, PVC only).

http://www.ceasarmarine.com/ceasar_surfcat.aspx

Ceasar is a South African based manufacturer that also builds RIBs and are probably best known for their thundercat racing boats. While I personally have not seen a ceasar surfcat, they have an excellent reputation and strong following. Easyrider, who is a member of this forum, has a surfcat and is extremely impressed with it. There is a dealer based in Florida.

http://www.ceasarmarine.com/world_dealers.aspx


3. Gemini - which is another South African based manufacturer with an excellent reputation.

http://www.gemini-marine.com/#

Their series of cat hulled SIBs include the Surf GRX (4.0 meters & 4.2 meters - PVC or Hypalon),

http://www.gemini-inflatables.com/in...asp?rangeID=19


and the Dive (4.7 meters & 5.3 meters - PVC or Hypalon).

http://www.gemini-inflatables.com/in...asp?rangeID=21


If you were wanting a boat that you could keep on a trailer through the summer, then fold up for the winter, I would recommend the Dive 530 for Lake Ontario use. However, neither of the Dive models would be practical for setup and take down with each use, since they are much to big. When folded up, my Dive 470, outboard and gas tanks completely fills up the (long) box of my Dodge Dakota.

Realistically, the Surf GRX 420 would probably be your most practical choice of the Gemini models for set up and take down with each use. You would still need either a; small car with a small utility trailer, a quite large car with folding back seats, or preferably a pickup truck to haul a 4.2 m Surf GRX along with motor and fuel tanks.

The other thing to consider is whether you want a PVC or Hypalon boat. A PVC boat is lighter and can be inflated to higher pressures, thus giving higher performance. A hypalon boat will have at least double (probably closer to triple) the life expectancy of a PVC boat. Hypalon will also cost a little more.

There are only 2 North American Gemini dealers, both are in British Columbia. I would highly recommend either one. They are Orca Inflatables in Vancouver, and Hi-Tech inflatables on Vancouver Island. Here are their websites:

http://www.orcainflatables.ca/en/home/

http://www.racing-inflatables.com/surf.htm

[SnappingTurtle]

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

If L. Ontario will be where you do most of your boating, the only type of SIB that I would even consider would be a Cat-hulled SIB. That leaves you with a choice of 3 brands, which are; ...

Thanks for the post prairie tuber!

Full of really useful information.