Battery type on a Sib for engine start.

[secondopsman]

Hi

I have just converted my Mariner 30 to an electric start on the sib (Quicksilver Hd 430).
At present for test purposes i have used a leisure battery i had at work but i now need to get the correct type.
Can anyone tell me what amperage battery i would require to turn the engine enough and if its just a standard car type battery would be suitable or should it be a sealed type.
I would secure it properly in the boat but should it be in a box?

Many thanks
Pete

[Peter_C]

I prefer an AGM (Advanced Glass Mat). They are much smaller than a flooded cell, and no matter what direction they face the battery can not leak. They do cost a lot more, but it is for a boat. I use a Hawker Odyssey, and there are many other brands available here in the USA like Lifeline, etc.

This is the battery I have Amazon.com: Odyssey PC925 Automotive and LTV Battery: Automotive With a heavy electrical load of VHF radio equipped with DSC and a Garmin GPS, plus the electric starter, I can't imagine anything smaller in my own boat.

You will want an onboard battery charger from the engine with a voltage regulator not just a rectifier. AGM's require a different type of battery charger on land and I would recommend one of the CTeK battery chargers as many of them work with the AGM's.

[jyasaki]

I used to use a tractor/garden battery on my old SIB (Honda 40.) About $40US without shopping around (had to replace it on a trip one time.) Did fine for starting, but not much reserve for engine-off electrical demand. Depends on what kind of electronics you have, and how often/long you run said electronics off the battery though. Nice compact form factor; can tuck it away anyplace. For a 30hp motor, you shouldn't need much battery to crank it.

A regular wet cell car battery would do fine; just make sure it can't tip over (i.e. strap it down.) Generally cheaper than an AGM as well (though that may be changing.) Ideal would be an AGM, as they are not prone to leakage, and are largely maintenance-free.


jky

[secondopsman]

Thanks for the replies guys.
Forgot to mention this will be used only for starting purposes nothing else.
Also as i use it when were away in the caravan i do have charging facilitys at hand.
Pete

[Searider]

We have a Yamaha 30hp in our 4m searider. I went and bought the smallest conventional car type battery I could find at our battery suppliers. About 34Ah IIRC.

I thought about lawnmower batteries and motorcycle batteries and even some of the hi tech completely sealed race car / aeroplane batteries but decided a car battery was best value for money.

It's secure under the console in the rib so i'm not worried about it tipping over or spilling.
For a SIB I might have considered something a little better sealed - don't want to be kneeling in acid!

[secondopsman]

I have been looking at the possibility of using say a small car battery(punto?)and mounting underneath my console in a battery box.Was hoping to get a sealed type something like this.
SEALED Car Battery, 063 - Maintenance Free - Peugeot 206, 207, 306 Petrol on eBay!
Think a visit to the motor factors may be on the cards tomorrrow.

[Erin]

A standard sealed lead acid would be your best bet in my view. Cheaper than an AGM and less particular about charging voltages etc. Ideally put it in a box so you don't risk shorting out the terminals and fix the box to the transom or console somehow.

[kelson]

AGM batteries do not require a special charger. I checked a manufacturers web site. Gel batteries do require a different rate of charge. A charger with a combined gel/agm selection is bogus. Gel batteries do have advantages over regular wet cell batteries. Their construction is much more vibration or impact resistant than a regular car battery and they discharge slower when sitting unused.

[Starovich]

small boat, small battery?

Maybe look at a motorbike battery?

If one can start my 1150cc boxer, should have no issues with a 30 hp outboard.

[Peter_C]

Originally Posted by kelson

AGM batteries do not require a special charger. I checked a manufacturers web site.

Got a link?

What voltage does your wet cell battery charger operate at that you are charging you AGM's with, at peak voltage? What voltage does the charger float at?

Voltage is more critical with an AGM. They can handle an insane amount of amperage that would boil a wet cell.

I guess I am the only one that doesn't like the sloshing around of acid inside my boat. Then again my boat has higher electrical demands requiring a much larger battery.

Wet cells are cheap, but also require a nice vented battery box. As long as you have a charging system on the boat a small motorcycle battery should meet your demands.

[Sharkbyte]

What about Lithium Ion batteries, inflate your tubes with helium, wear no underpants and shave an inch off of the soles of your wellies to completely negate the weight of the cells?

;-)

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by Peter_C

Got a link?

BatteryStuff Articles | Guide to Understanding Flooded, AGM, and Gel Batteries

for one.

Voltage is more critical with an AGM. They can handle an insane amount of amperage that would boil a wet cell.

May be true, but it's the same voltage range that a flooded wet cell uses, and since they can take a higher current draw/input, that won't be an issue. I think AGM's use the same voltage range, but the current has to be regulated a lot more (not sure on this one, but I tend to stay away from gel cells due to price and special charger needs anyway.)

Then again my boat has higher electrical demands requiring a much larger battery.

What are you running that requires a larger battery? Don't remember any big electrically run items on your boat.


Excerpt from the above link (in case you don't want to sift through it):


3. Wet Cell (flooded), Gel Cell, and Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) are various versions of the lead acid battery. The Wet cell comes in two styles; Serviceable and Maintenance free. Both are filled with electrolyte and are basicly the same. I prefer one that I can add water to and check the specific gravity of the electrolyte with a hydrometer. The Gel Cell and the AGM batteries are specialty batteries that typically cost twice as much as a premium wet cell. However they store very well and do not tend to sulfate or degrade as easily as wet cell. There is little chance of a hydrogen gas explosion or corrosion when using these batteries; these are the safest lead acid batteries you can use. Gel Cell and some AGM batteries may require a special charging rate. If you want the best,most versatile type, consideration should be given to the AGM battery for applications such as Marine, RV, Solar, Audio, Power Sports and Stand-By Power just to name a few. If you don't use or operate your equipment daily, AGM batteries will hold their charge better that other types. If you must depend on top-notch battery performance, spend the extra money. Gel Cell batteries still are being sold but AGM batteries are replacing them in most applications. There is a some common confusion regarding AGM batteries because different manufactures call them by different names; some of the more common names are "sealed regulated valve", "dry cell", "non spillable", and "Valve Regulated Lead Acid" batteries. In most cases AGM batteries will give greater life span and greater cycle life than a wet cell battery.
SPECIAL NOTE about Gel Batteries: It is very common for individuals to use the term GEL CELL when referring to sealed, maintenance free batteries, much like one would use Kleenex when referring to facial tissue or "Xerox machine" when referring to a copy machine. Be very careful when specifying a battery charger, many times we are told by customer they are requiring a charger for a Gel Cell battery and in fact the battery is not a Gel Cell.



jky

[clydeoutboards]

I like leisure batteries as they dont lose charge when not used unlike car batteries so something like Batteries UK - Specialising in quality batteries at probably the cheapest prices online - Car batteries, Motorcycle batteries, Leisure & Marine batteries, Golf & Mower batteries, Alarm batteries, accessories would be more than enough and hassle free.

Dave

[Peter_C]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

May be true, but it's the same voltage range that a flooded wet cell uses, and since they can take a higher current draw/input, that won't be an issue. I think AGM's use the same voltage range, but the current has to be regulated a lot more (not sure on this one, but I tend to stay away from gel cells due to price and special charger needs anyway.)

Both flooded cell and AGM's take the same "Electronically Regulated" voltage. You do not want to put an AGM into an old 1965 Dodge vehicle. Nor do you want to use an old school "Manual" battery charger of any brand on an AGM. Often both of those types of charging systems will go well beyond the recommended AGM charging voltage of 14.3. Standard is 13.7 to 14.3 volts for most modern vehicles/vessels. Some of the old school stuff will go as high as 15 volts, and yes I have measured such with my Fluke DVOM.

"Smart Chargers" like the CTek do regulate charging using readings like impedance and voltage to determine the batteries temperature, current amp hours, and what the optimal current rate of charge should be. Once topped up with will keep a float charge on, and when needed will boost up a little to maintain the battery. An old school charger can not be left on any kind of battery for long term. So in conclusion not every battery charger should be used on an AGM.

Originally Posted by jyasaki

What are you running that requires a larger battery? Don't remember any big electrically run items on your boat.

I have been making all kinds of changes to the boat. Fun projects but it would be nice to get the boat back on the trailer and start working on that portion of the rebuild again. First I need to finish redoing the trailer bunks, and all the aluminum uprights for the trailer bunks. I had one aluminum upright break a long time ago and we did a field repair at Albion from some scrap steel we found laying around (Fortunately it didn't put a hole in the boat). Added in a DSC fixed mount VHF, with a nice 8ft antenna, tied into the Garmin GPS chart plotter. Still trying to figure out how to mount one of my bilge pumps I have laying around. There is barely enough room under the floor boards to mount a tiny Sea Witch switch. (It can hold gallons of water under the deck which makes hauling it over a beach much more laborious.) The boat is on a severe diet, yet getting some safety additions. It does now have an elephant trunk on it.

[jyasaki]

Pete:

So you're running a VHF and a GPS, with expansion for a bilge pump? Hardly what I'd call a heavy electrical load. Transmitting on high power, with the engine off, you're pulling less than 10 amps for the period your lips are flapping. More like an amp and a half to 2 amps while listening.

Get a pump that will draw to a couple foot head. Mount the pump above deck, and plumb a hose down to the lowest point you can get to, with a screen protecting the pickup.

See you in Monterey sometime;

jky

[9D280]

I've been running with the chepest battery I could find. All down to the old marine deep cycle high capacity etc etc one expiring halfway through an event I was playing rescue boat at, and had to repalce it ASAP.

Went to the local auto factor shop, and bought the smallest battery they had, simply because I planned to replace it with the deep cycle yadda yadda etc etc that they didn't have in stock. I think it was "rated" for "cars with petrol engines 1.0L & below" (something like 45Ah)

Life did it's usual and I still havenlt go round to replacing it. Only failure so far after 4 years would appear to be down to the rectifier /regulator module on the engine dying and me not realising it wasn't getting properly charged for goodness knows how long. (now got a voltmeter! )

Having said that, on a SIB I'd want to make sure it was properly fixed down if I went conventional lead acid. Bottom line is you donlt need a big battery to start a 30Hp engine!

[prairie tuber]

I use a pair of Odyssey (AGM) batteries in my truck because they are in boxes inside of my cab (a wet cell would be unacceptable for this application). They have been great batteries and I would highly recommend them. If I did have electric start on my outboard, they would be the only type of battery I would consider for a SIB.

I am curious why you would change over from a simple & dependable rope start on a small motor like a 30 hp to electric start.

[secondopsman]

I am curious why you would change over from a simple & dependable rope start on a small motor like a 30 hp to electric start. [/QUOTE]

Its down to a shoulder injury 5 pulls max and im done
That sounds soooo wrong.

[Peter_C]

Actually it is the best of both worlds. If you convert a pull start to electric, you can still pull start it Electric start sure is nice to have though, as the motor starts so easily, and quickly without putting a person off balance in possibly rough sea conditions. Of course most of the time, my boat has dive gear spread all over the floor so there is little room to stand when starting the boat. (The only challenge with converting to electric start is unless you put the neutral switches onto the boat motor, it will start in gear with an electric starter.)

This type of battery box shown and linked below works well. I sealed the top vents with black RTV so water wouldn't pour into the battery box (The entire circumference of the lid vents plenty well enough). The box shown is going to be twice the size needed for a small motorcycle type battery, although I am sure there should be something available for a smaller battery. Here in the USA they also require the battery cable ends to be covered. That was just part of a stringent Coast Guard inspection I got BEFORE launching many years ago with my Correct Craft. Of course I passed the entire inspection, but they had a big check list!

Amazon.com: Attwood Corporation 9082-1 Small Battery Box: Sports & Outdoors

[secondopsman]

Thats almost identical to the battery box i have purchased.
Managed to pick up a car battery {sealed type} that fits perfect with a little rubber type polystyrene so no bouncing around.
All i need now is my engine back and were good to go.
Pete