Boat legal question?

Poll · 28 March 2013, 19:42

Hi all, could anyone clarify my position on this? I recently bought a sailboat for a decent price, I have a bill of sale etc, last weekend the owner before the guy I bought the vessel from came to the sailing club and removed my mast, boom and even the damn rigging, there is cctv footage of him doing so also.

How do I stand legally, seeing as the guy is apparently claiming he was not paid in full by the guy I bought it off, although the guy I bought from is saying he is owed a few hundred pounds from the guy he bought it from, if you follow?

Any and all help greatly appreciated and apologies if this is in the wrong place.

Boats&Outboards · 28 March 2013, 19:49

Let's pretend its a Rib (you'll get an easier ride)

Did the owner you bought it off have a bill of sale for his purchase, signed by the original owner, transferring ownership to him ?

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ www.BoatsandOutboards4Sale.co.uk ~ 07930 421007

Poll · 28 March 2013, 19:54

I honestly don't know

captnjack · 28 March 2013, 20:32

In this country its theft. If you are owned money, you go to the courts for restitution, not taking things back which you believe are yours. I know of numerous cases where the aggrieved 'owner' was prosecuted for theft. I'd be ringing up the police and filing a report, let the court sort it out.

thomas · 28 March 2013, 20:55

+ 1 for the police, some bloke who has nothing to do with you has stollen your property, end of story.

Nos4r2 · 28 March 2013, 20:57

It's not your argument. He's stolen from you. Call the police.

Boats&Outboards · 28 March 2013, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

+ 1 for the police, some bloke who has nothing to do with you has stollen your property, end of story.

Or if the previous owner hasn't any proof of purchase like a bill of sale then the original owner could well argue that you've bought a "stolen" boat, being that it wasn't your sellers to sell, to you!

Difficult situation, if the boat is now in your name at the sailing club that will help, and I'd call the police like others have said.

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ www.BoatsandOutboards4Sale.co.uk ~ 07930 421007

paddlers · 28 March 2013, 21:17

It's theft ! Let the police sort it out.

whisper · 28 March 2013, 21:18

Make sure you call the police before he does!

If he reports it before you then you will be in a difficult situation.

Call them asap.

Good luck

Jizm · 28 March 2013, 21:58

Yep. Ring the old bill....

Poll · 28 March 2013, 22:52

Thanks for the replies gentlemen

It seems the guy I bought it off does have a bill of sale so hopefully the police will sort it out for me, many thanks guys.

IanH · 29 March 2013, 08:21

Wouldn't it be more sensible to approach the thief and ask him to return the items otherwise the authorities would become involved.

If both sides know all the facts a solution may be able to be worked out before you become an enemy of the first owner too.

C2 RIBS · 29 March 2013, 09:26

I would be tempted to speak with the person who took items first and explain you bought the boat and therefore own it (if it was an item that was stolen before then no you dont own it despite paying good money). An example of this would be buying a car in good faith and later finding it is stolen, the police will take it off you and then it becomes a fight with insurers etc, normally you end up paying the old insurers to keep your purchase!!

Tell them you have the CCTV and ownership rights and intend to go to police if this is not resolved . Be careful what you say to them as it could be construed as a threat.

The issue with going to UK police may be that they will arrest the person for theft and grab your kit back, BUT then it will be held/stored for a court case, and even if it there is no court case then they will hold it under police property laws awaiting a civil court deciding the ownership if other person states he has a right to it, which will take forever.

paddlers · 29 March 2013, 13:10

The problem is are the actions of the alleged original owner in removing the mast etc 'reasonable' given the circumstances ? I would suggest not which would lead me to think that attitudes are already hardened to the point that approaching him would be pointless & result in further trouble. If a full refund of the payment from the seller isn't forthcoming (my preferred option & walk away) I don't see any reason not to let the police deal with it other than they regard it as a civil matter and put it back in your lap !!

John Kennett · 29 March 2013, 13:47

£10 says that the police would have absolutely no interest in this at all.

It does sound like a tricky situation though, and you are clearly caught in the middle of it. I would try talking to both parties very calmly first and see if they can work something out.

If that fails I would be inclined to return it to the seller for a refund as it's not clear that he actually has title to it. If that's a dead end then you could explain to him that you'll make a claim against him in the County Court, not because you want to have a go at him but because that way you get get a binding and impartial opinion. If you don't get solicitors involved it needn't cost too much.

Is there a lot of money involved? Maybe just pay the ransom to the previous owner and put it down to experience?

whisper · 29 March 2013, 14:34

Can you contact the police and then claim through your insurance?

Or

Contact the police and see what they say, if they are not interested go round his house and have it out with him. Tell him that you have reported it and there is CCTV footage of him doing it.

Or

Contact the last owner and give him 24
Hours to settle with the last previous owner or you will take legal action.

The list is never ending..... But do something now, don't leave it. I would be pushing all involved very hard!

captnjack · 29 March 2013, 16:51

What a mess. See what you all could avoid if you just titled boats in the UK like we do over here

willk · 29 March 2013, 18:23

Just a question - does the original owner (the thief) realize that the boat had been sold to you before he pinched the gear? If not, he may be reasonable about it. I mean, does he expect you to buy the stuff from him or is he just trying to punish the guy who sold it to you?

Poll · 10 April 2013, 19:41

The matter is now in the hands of the police, cctv footage shows a vehicle, including number plate removing the property so I hope this ends swiftly.

SteveHall · 10 April 2013, 21:02

Good Luck! Keep us all updated.