Boat safety

[kerny]

Originally Posted by DM

You're not wrong.

He bought a new flatscreen telly at Christmas to replace the one he'd owned for forty years. Nothing wrong with it apart from an annoying flicker every 10 seconds. But he said he wasn't going to bring the new one in til he'd had a bit more use out of the old one.

So I shot it with the loaded crossbow he keeps by the front door.

On carrying the old telly out, he slipped and cracked three ribs. (he was pissed by this time )

We spent the next week doing our best to make him laugh.

It was great!

It just gets better

[thomas]

You'd be amazed how many people use fixed and handheld radios and don't even know they need a license, they live in blissful ignorance, bit like all those welsh people who think wales will win this weekend

[lightning]

So I could buy a VHF radio, but as long as I never use it except in a genuine emergency (which will hopefully be never) I don't really need to do the course and get a licence?

As long as I read up on the correct procedure for making an emergency call (that I'll hopefully never have to do)

I won't get into trouble if I use it in this way?

[SPR]

Originally Posted by lightning

So I could buy a VHF radio, but as long as I never use it except in a genuine emergency (which will hopefully be never) I don't really need to do the course and get a licence?

As long as I read up on the correct procedure for making an emergency call (that I'll hopefully never have to do)

I won't get into trouble if I use it in this way?

It is not illegal to own one, or use on channel m & m2 - these are private channels.

Likewise you will not get in to trouble using channel 16 in a distress situation

Reason for doing course:

1) Allows you to use it legally, to call Coastguard, other water users - for weather and safety information logging.

2) you get to practice voice protocol and learn about the other kit that is used PLB, SART etc

3) telling you what channels are used for and when.

It also give you the practice of firming messages and speaking into an inanimated object. (some people find this hard to do)

I would recommend when you can afford the course do it! If do properly you will get a good information, and of I dare say fun.

regards

S.

[willk]

Originally Posted by SPR

It also give you the practice of firming messages and speaking into an inanimated object. (some people find this hard to do)

If you can leave Voicemail, you will probably struggle through it OK...

[Poly]

Originally Posted by lightning

So I could buy a VHF radio, but as long as I never use it except in a genuine emergency (which will hopefully be never) I don't really need to do the course and get a licence?

As long as I read up on the correct procedure for making an emergency call (that I'll hopefully never have to do)

I won't get into trouble if I use it in this way?

That is correct. You still need to license the radio (free if done online) with Ofcom. In the interests of balance I should point out that:

(1) You don't want the first time you ever use your radio for real to be in the middle of a mayday call. Having used it for some routine stuff and having made mayday calls in a practice scenario may mean you can actually deliver a more effective / coherent message. Alternatively you may find you are bricking it so much that you are screaming any old rubbish down the mike no matter how much training you do. Afterall the "practice" calls you make in the class will be sitting behind a desk in a warm classroom with no real threat to life.

(2) There are a number of uses (including potential safety benefits) of a VHF radio during normal boating not only when calling for help! e.g. advising CG of your plans; seeking advice; advising of a delay that might initiate a search; telling CG of a developing problem (e.g. dodgy engine, ill crew etc). As well as contacting marina's, other vessels etc. A good instructor will highlight these during the course. If performed even vaguely following the correct radio procedure you are unlikely to get any issues - and I am sure the CG would still rather you bent the rules to tell them of a minor issue without the right license than not call them and have a problem develop to a distress call.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by SPR

2) you get to practice voice protocol and learn about the other kit that is used PLB, SART etc

ah, yes the finer points of the GMDSS system, PLBs, EPIRBS, SARTs, NAVTEX and AIS - all not particularly relevant to a SIB user not planning to go out of sight of land.

3) telling you what channels are used for and when.

although actually most people who have done the course won't remember more than a few of them a week later - but can look them up in an almanac / radio manual / the RYA VHF book!

[Max...]

Originally Posted by lightning

So I could buy a VHF radio, but as long as I never use it except in a genuine emergency (which will hopefully be never) I don't really need to do the course and get a licence?

As long as I read up on the correct procedure for making an emergency call (that I'll hopefully never have to do)

I won't get into trouble if I use it in this way?

No but you'll get into trouble if you get into an emergency and you find you can't use it because it doesn't work because you didn't want to make a call to the CG to check it was working because you didn't want to pay £100 to do the VHF course...

Surely if you can afford a boat, engine and associated equipment and a VHF handheld then surely you can afford to spend £100 to do a VHF course..??!

Why is that eyeryone accepts you need to learn to drive a car or motorbike for many hours followed by a stringent test but any old idiot jumps in a boat and heads off to sea with zero training putting all those concerned at risk...

[SPR]

+ 1 for maxx

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Max...

No but you'll get into trouble if you get into an emergency and you find you can't use it because it doesn't work because you didn't want to make a call to the CG to check it was working because you didn't want to pay £100 to do the VHF course...

although you could do a radio check legally on M/M1; and then not be yet another leisure boater pestering the CG for a radio check.

Surely if you can afford a boat, engine and associated equipment and a VHF handheld then surely you can afford to spend £100 to do a VHF course..??!

well, maybe, but not everyone on here is rolling in money. Whilst there are other reasons people use SIBs its probably reasonable to assume that many SIB owners are budget restricted. At the same time he is being encouraged to cough up more money for a PB2 (maybe 2 - one for him and the Mrs), an anchor (if he doesn't have one), flares, and a VHF. That is potentially 25% or more of the cost of an entry level SIB package.

Why is that eyeryone accepts you need to learn to drive a car or motorbike for many hours followed by a stringent test but any old idiot jumps in a boat and heads off to sea with zero training putting all those concerned at risk...

Why is it that despite those arrangements far more people die on our roads than on our waterways! In fairness to the OP he is seeking the training in how to handle the boat safely.

[SPR]

more cars on roads than boats on water?
cars get used to go hundred of miles a day?
boats don't need to deal with ice or tight bends?
most boats don't need to worry about animals or people coming out in front?
most sensible people choose not to go out in bad weather in boats, but need to use car to work?
Boats mainly used at weekends if we are lucky?
People use a car to get to boat!

Does this help ?

[Max...]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Why is it that despite those arrangements far more people die on our roads than on our waterways! In fairness to the OP he is seeking the training in how to handle the boat safely.

Polwart, I always enjoy your posts but that is totally irrelevant and a daft comparison!

[willk]

Originally Posted by Max...

Polwart, I always enjoy your posts but that is totally irrelevant and a daft comparison!

I'm not saying anything Max...

...but have you noticed how he sometimes has these wee flights of "strangeness"?

And how his name backwards is Trawl OP?

cough *gaRfie* cough

[SIBer]

I did my PB2 in Chichester harbour - Had a great time in a big rib
Then did my day skipper coastal the year after in a 40 foot twin engine flybridge Birchwood in the Solent - Seriously good fun - apart from being told to moor in a really tight space between two multimillion gin palaces.
Got my VHF ticket above a local pub on a 1 day course.

All years before I got a SIB. The courses were great fun and super short "holidays". Worth every penny just for the crack.

[jambo]

After reading all the post including Polly's much which I agree, I do wonder how many people are in charge of boats and ribs on the sea and indeed members on here, that rely on years of experience as they were in and around the sea and boats well before there were bits of paper to say you were good!
A piece of paper does not maketh the man/woman: never seen a boat, buy one on Monday sit exams Tues/Wed and off you go on the sea on Thursday, yea I feel safe,not! Probably sh1t themselves first force 4!!!!Give me experience any day.

[SPR]

Originally Posted by jambo

After reading all the post including Polly's much which I agree, I do wonder how many people are in charge of boats and ribs on the sea and indeed members on here, that rely on years of experience as they were in and around the sea and boats well before there were bits of paper to say you were good!
A piece of paper does not maketh the man/woman: never seen a boat, buy one on Monday sit exams Tues/Wed and off you go on the sea on Thursday, yea I feel safe,not! Probably sh1t themselves first force 4!!!!Give me experience any day.

I agree - hence the RYA policy is education not legislation.

The OP asked for advice I believe, and is not experienced.

So training has been suggested.

S.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Max...

Polwart, I always enjoy your posts but that is totally irrelevant and a daft comparison!

It was your irrelevant and daft comparison!

If as SPR suggested we only used our cars at weekends in good weather with much lower traffic densities, and generally lower speeds then road casualty rates would fall substantially - and the 'need' for complicated training and testing would fall too (indeed the driving test has become progressively more complicated over the last 80 yrs or so as these factors have increased - although it still generally ignores all the high risk factors SPR mentions: most centres do very little on country roads, tests are never in darkness or very bad weather, and not on motorways!). Interestingly road deaths aren't significantly lower now than they were before the driving test was introduced (although obviously the number of cars is much higher) even though cars are safer.

Looking at RoSPA's stats - it seems more people drown in their cars than from powerboating or sailing each year.

More people die each year rock climbing than powerboating; and more people die in the mountains (from all climbing, walking activities) than at sea (from all watersports) despite roughly similar levels of participation... perhaps we should get a certificate to walk up the hills too!

I can't find any stats comparing casualty rates in countries with mandatory minimum qualifications for leisure boaters and those without but with only around 7 leisure powerboat fatalities per annum in the UK I find it hard to believe that compulsory training would actually reduce this. I've no idea what proportion of UK boaters have voluntarily been trained (PB2 is the RYA's most popular course) but it seems the current system works?

[jambo]

Originally Posted by SPR

I agree - hence the RYA policy is education not legislation.

The OP asked for advice I believe, and is not experienced.

So training has been suggested.

S.

I am not 'dissing' you or the OP your point is well made.
But I still think we over qualify by so called exams with little experince thereby giving people a false sense of ability and achievement.
Cheers
B

[SPR]

no offence taken,

zero to hero comes to mind...

I always assess our club boat drivers regardless of qualifications!

AKA club induction !

S.

[jambo]

Originally Posted by SPR

no offence taken,

zero to hero comes to mind...

I always assess our club boat drivers regardless of qualifications!

AKA club induction !

S.

And a good club it is to with great facilities been often, mate has boat at Anstruther.
B