Boat safety

[lightning]

We've owned our SIB since 2009, and have used it on the canal, on rivers, and lakes.

However we've never done any training, and I think we should. We are going to Cornwall in the Summer and the house we are staying in is on an estuary (St Mawes)

So if we go out on the boat we will be in tidal waters etc.

I've searched online but cannot find anybody doing basic boat handling etc near to me in Stockport. There was a course based at Marple canal but they've retired and stopped doing it.

The thing is, I'm guessing it would be easy to get into serious trouble in the sea. We always wear life jackets unless on the canal, but (for instance) if the SIB capsized in the sea, and we were in the water, boat upside down....what's the procedure then?
How far from the shore is it safe to go in a SIB? Should we carry flares? etc

Is there anybody near to Stockport, Cheshire that can offer a basic one/two day course in small boat safety/handling?

I think we should take a training course of some sort before venturing on to coastal waters.

[Poly]

There is a search tool somewhere on the RYA website. You are looking for either Powerboat 1 (1 day) or Powerboat 2. Then I would check that they will either do some training in tiller steered boats or let you bring yours along as otherwise you may find yourself in a big boat all day. Broadly speaking there are 3 types of schools:

1. Sailing clubs. Possibly the cheapest. Likely to be run by people who are really sailors rather than powerboaters and with a focus on very local short trip, boat handling around dinghies etc.

2. Outdoor centres. Usually council run so may be sensibly priced. Should be able to run a decent course, but from what I have seen likely to be large numbers of people (with appropriate ratio of boats and instructors). That does mean potential exposure to a wider range of craft and different teaching styles / personalities.

3. "Sailing" school. Actually for a PB2 likely to be a "powerboat school" (but some do sail as well). Probably slightly more expensive but will usually be taught be someone who really understands leisure powerboating. In theory teaches the same syllabus and standards as 1&2 but likely to be smaller no of participants so a good instructor should tailor the course more around your specific needs and interests.


In terms of capsizing a SIB this is bad news. In theory it is possible to reright it but it won't routinely be taught on a PB2 course. The procedure is STAY WITH THE BOAT (much easier to find than a head bobbing up an down in the water). If possible get everyone on top of the upturned hull and out the water (so they are warmer). Mayday call by VHF, fire flares, 999 on mobile (or any other distress method you have - although burning barrels of tar on a sib deck is not recommended!). Even if you did manage to reright the boat it is likely you would have problems restarting the engine after being upside down in the sea.

How far you go depends on lots of things. E.g. people have been very long distances in SIBs but doesn't mean you should, or that your boat is ideal for it. I would be inclined to stay in sight of land, and then the choppiness will determine how far I actually venture. I would want a decent handheld VHF with me and a mobile phone in a water proof bag. A GPS is not essential but if you are venturing far it might be worth considering as it removes an extra element of stress/complication. The official answer would be you should carry at least a couple of flares. They are not cheap, a PITA to get rid of and only last about 5 years. Willk has a thread on all the kit he carries on his sib if you search for it.

[John Kennett]

The basic course is "RYA Level 2 Powerboat" and I thinbk you would find it very worthwhile. You will do it on a bigger boat than yours, but the majority of the content will still be applicable (and the rest will stand you in good stead when you inevitably move on to a bigger RIB ). I'm sure someone will be able to recommend a training centre near you.

As for capsizing your SIB, it's really very unlikely unless you are being determinedly over ambitious. There are methods for righting a SIB or small RIB, but you would be better off putting your efforts into learning enough to make sure you don't get into that situation!

[John Kennett]

Here are a couple of old threads about re-righting a capsize if you want to read more:

http://www.rib.net/forum/f50/s-i-b-c...ght-30987.html
http://www.rib.net/forum/f8/capsize-12084.html

[Ribochet]

Hi Ligthning - you are to be commended in considering getting training prior to your planned trip this Summer .

As you say there is always the possibility of getting into trouble and I would highly recommend that you and your crew consider attending a RYA Powerboat Level 2 course - no need to do Level 1 beforehand. The following link will give you more details

Level 2 | Powerboat | Courses | Learning | Courses & Training | RYA

The next link may help you find a centre close to you or other Ribnetters may be able to recommend a Centre from "local knowledge".

Find A Training Centre | Learning | Courses & Training | RYA

I would also recommend that you talk to a RNLI Sea Safety Advisor who will be only be too glad to chat to you and give you free and impartial advise in respect to any questions that you may have concerning safety. This link will help you organise a free SEA Check where ever you live.

Book a SEA check



Also for those going out to sea, the RNLI's top sea safety tips are:

1. Wear a lifejacket
2. Get relevant training
3. Carry a means of calling for help
4. Check engine and fuel
5. Tell others where you are going
6. Check weather and tides.

If you require any other information do not hestitate to PM me.

Always remember:

[jake 4589]

Hi there, there are a number of places very near you that do powerboating courses:-
Debdale, Gorton, Manchester
Trafford (sale) waterpark ,just off the m60
Hollingworth lake, Rochdale

Jake

[jake 4589]

Me again,

one more thing.

We take the SIB down to Cornwall every year now and to be honest we have the flares torches etc, but the 1 thing I wouldn't be without is my handheld VHF. If you don't have 1 then I strongly advise getting 1 and do the course.

It's not fail safe but its definately worth it.

The other thing I'd say is when your down there before setting off get some advice off the locals, ie Harbourmaster, fishermen or coastguard.

It's free and invaluable

Jake

[BumbleAbout]

In addition to the PB2 course I would suggest that you take a small anchor (we use a Danforth), a couple of metres of chain and 30m+ of 6mm rope (have a look at the charted depths where you intend to sail and then add about 10m - you are not anchoring overnight hopefully!) to your supplies. If you do get in trouble, then it's usually better to stay in one position than to drift out to sea/ onto rocks etc.

[Max...]

The comments above say it all really, to sum up though anyone going on the sea in charge of a boat without prior training would be daft not to do PB2 and the VHF course and of course carry a working VHF radio.

You will probably find as soon as you get out on the sea that the shore looks a long way away after a very short time even though you are only 1/2 mile out, no need to go further. And the other thing you will find is anything other than a flat sea is a PITA and tiring and uncomfortable in the average 3m(ish) SIB. If you want to keep the family on your side stick to fine, warm days, calm water and short trips at least to start. Blow everyone's confidence and you won't get it back...

As well as the VHF I would as a minimum carry the basic items in other topics (anchor, bailer, tools, spark plugs etc) and would not be without a local chart, GPS and mobile phone.

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by jake 4589

Hi there, there are a number of places very near you that do powerboating courses:-
Debdale, Gorton, Manchester
Trafford (sale) waterpark ,just off the m60
Hollingworth lake, Rochdale

I would really recommend travelling to a coastal training centre and not doing your powerboat course on a lake - you would miss out on a lot of useful experience that way.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

I would really recommend travelling to a coastal training centre and not doing your powerboat course on a lake - you would miss out on a lot of useful experience that way.

I would agree with JK. The course content is different - and having started dinghy sailing (don't worry I grew out of it!) inland there was quite a difference when going to sea for the first time. With a powerboat that can cover a mile in 3 minutes quite easily then even the biggest lake isn't going to give you experience in making "journies".

All these costs could add up: PB2 ~ £200 per person. VHF ~ £100. Flares ~ £30 for the minimum. VHF course ~ £90 per person (including test). Anchor, warp etc ~ £60.

Whilst controversial - if budgets are tight then I wouldn't get too worried if you could afford the VHF but not the training course. You can learn how to use a standard handheld from books/internet pretty well. I'd also rather have an anchor than flares.

[Ribochet]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Whilst controversial - if budgets are tight then I wouldn't get too worried if you could afford the VHF but not the training course. You can learn how to use a standard handheld from books/internet pretty well. I'd also rather have an anchor than flares.

As you said contoversial.

To me a VHF is a "must have" and attached to a LJ. During training exercises I have made a number of "for training purposes only" calls to our Lifeboat and heard by Belfast Coastguard from a handheld VHF when in the water.

Given the capsize senario in the OP it is the one of the main pieces of kit that when the "call" is made will initiate the search and rescue operation that the casualty will so desperately want.

Also a point to note is that an anchor is only functional when the rode is long enough to be effective and in a SIB that may not be too deep of water. Thats why I always carry a sea anchor .

[lightning]

Thanks for the replies.

We'll look into the courses that are local to us. To be honest we are unlikely to venture out of the estuary and into the open sea, as our boat is so small.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by lightning

Thanks for the replies.

We'll look into the courses that are local to us. To be honest we are unlikely to venture out of the estuary and into the open sea, as our boat is so small.

Lightning - the inland and coastal courses follow different syllabuses: specifically dealing with tides. That is why we are encouraging you to think about coastal centres. Doesn't necessarily need to be open sea, just tidal water that the centre is based on.

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by Ribochet

As you said contoversial.

To me a VHF is a "must have" and attached to a LJ. During training exercises I have made a number of "for training purposes only" calls to our Lifeboat and heard by Belfast Coastguard from a handheld VHF when in the water.

Given the capsize senario in the OP it is the one of the main pieces of kit that when the "call" is made will initiate the search and rescue operation that the casualty will so desperately want.

Also a point to note is that an anchor is only functional when the rode is long enough to be effective and in a SIB that may not be too deep of water. Thats why I always carry a sea anchor .

Agree
also ilegal to use vhf without a licence flares are a must have.
Choose a training centre on the coast as othes have said .
Tim

[Poly]

Tim, whilst technically you are correct, but can you cite any real examples of a leisure user being challenged using radio sensibly in recent times (since free licenses) - never mind actually prosecuted?

It's really a bit of a money making racket for the rya.


Here is what ofcom say:

What does this
mean to you?
Even if you have
a radio which is covered by a valid WT Act licence you are not permitted to
use it for general transmissions until you have either passed the relevant examination
and are in possession of an operator's certificate and authority to operate,
or have someone on board who has. This does not mean that the radio cannot
be monitored for safety purposes or used to summon assistance in a distress
situation. This is because the terms of the licence require that the radio
is operated by or under the direct and personal supervision of a holder of a
valid marine radio operator's certificate. The Authority to Operate from the
Secretary of State also forms part of the operator's certificate. This certificate
ensures that users of maritime radio have proven that they understand and are
able to use the correct procedures for radio use and will not cause a nuisance
to their fellow radio users including other vessels and HM Coastguard.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Polwart

It's really a bit of a money making racket for the rya.

Need a hand here P.? - Remember my RNLI thread?

I had a look through an RYA course list recently - it was fairly comprehensive...

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Whilst controversial - if budgets are tight then I wouldn't get too worried if you could afford the VHF but not the training course. You can learn how to use a standard handheld from books/internet pretty well. I'd also rather have an anchor than flares.

Why are you so anti RYA
Tim ?.

[Dhf]

Well around my way anyone caught more than a few hundred yards offshore with no safety gear, would be escorted back to shore with a ticking off.
With all the safety gear, and knowing how to use, will come more confidence.
Life jackets, VHF Radio, Coastal Flare kit, (Only difference with offshore flare packs you get more rockets), anchor and chain with at least 50m rope, plus suitable clothing and refreshments,

Whilst assisting in a mayday call a few years back in a vessal with chanel zero, The importance of competent radio contact became all to clear, We were on passage with 12 passengers aboard at the time, As soon as i heard Mayday i pulled back rev's, listening to a very unsure,
" Mayday Mayday we've lost our diver's please help".
As we were considered as aux LB we let the Coast gaurd take control of trying to find out where exactly they where and how long diver's been down, Five minutes later we were travelling a full throttle in the general direction, listening to the finer details coming over the radio as to the diver's initial drop point and time.
After checking the chart and working out how far those diver's should have travelled with 7 reducing to 5knt tide pushing them, Ten minutes later we located two very cold frightened divers bobbing down the coast, with no decompression issue's thankfully, Their helms man who was suposed to be keeping an eye on their markers initially, was searching himself over a mile away, The point is if the initial vhf distress call would have been correct we could have got there even quicker,
so it's well worth learning and practicing with friends the correct procedure. even if don't get round to doing your test, least you'll learn the important bits,
With your eagerness to learn more, and your previous tiller experience, you're more than half way there, Don't be frightened of the sea, just treat her with respect and you'll love her.

[Max...]

Really surprised at advice on here to not do a VHF course and just (try) to muddle through.