Bombard 380 vs F-Rib vs ?? - Help choose right boat.

[Fenlander]

Nick I'm going to chuck so thoughts in re that Quicksilver + 20hp.

Appreciate you possibly choosing to go for a flat air floor because that's been our decision for many years now... for the practicality. I'm sure I've said previously we currently have a Zodiac 340 Acti-V that's been with us a year now.

I do wonder about the decision to get a flat type air floor, fill it with people and power it with 20hp. To keep their weight down there is no doubt the flat air floor types are built down to meet these low weights... particularly in the transom area. Even for an air floor as long as 3.6 with the Zodiac Fastroller they advise just 10hp as the ideal (but allow 15hp max). This is just what you have found.

I wonder if the Quicksilver is that much more strongly made to have a 20hp max or are they just taking more of a chance allowing it in the spec?

Don't get me wrong... we've had great use from the flat air floor type but the time when its weaknesses are exposed is when strongly powered in a bumpy sea with a fair load.

[NickDK]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

I do wonder about the decision to get a flat type air floor, fill it with people and power it with 20hp. To keep their weight down there is no doubt the flat air floor types are built down to meet these low weights... particularly in the transom area. Even for an air floor as long as 3.6 with the Zodiac Fastroller they advise just 10hp as the ideal (but allow 15hp max). This is just what you have found.

I wonder if the Quicksilver is that much more strongly made to have a 20hp max or are they just taking more of a chance allowing it in the spec?

I agree with you, I have also wondered if they upped the rating as it's hard to find any comparable boats that can take 20HP.

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Don't get me wrong... we've had great use from the flat air floor type but the time when its weaknesses are exposed is when strongly powered in a bumpy sea with a fair load.

Good points, as you know I have looked at many other boats and haven't been able to find any flat floored ones not weighing a ton!

If I had a ramp to the beach, which I'm also considering, what boat should I go for then? And how heavy a setup is it possible to move around in the sand? The Transom wheels I have found as the Beachmaster ones are only rated for 100kg total which is a bit low. I'll have to bruteforce the boat around down there.

[Fenlander]

If we accept you want a flat floor then the Aerotec and 3.8 V air floot Honwave are out so for me there would be two ways to go....

Accept the convenience of a 3.2-3.6m flat air floor and keep to something like a used 15hp 2-stroke so both boat and outboard are manageable without any ramps etc... and in doing so don't worry about ultimate performance.

Or...

Plan to use some sort of ramp system and go for whichever alloy/wood floor SIB you fancy up to 3.5m (I'd be looking at the Honwave 3.5 alloy floor for best value) and partner it with a 20hp which you can wheel down on some sort of trolley.

Does the tide go out far at that location? For the distance in your photos with 2/3 people you can part lift and skid a sib across nice sand like that.... no need for wheels.... particularly an air floor with sensible outboard size.

Many of us on here buy used outfits at keen prices and then if/when they are not exactly what we want can be sold on with minimal or no loss... as mentioned in the "Which SIB" thread.

[NickDK]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

If we accept you want a flat floor then the Aerotec and 3.8 V air floot Honwave are out so for me there would be two ways to go....

Accept the convenience of a 3.2-3.6m flat air floor and keep to something like a used 15hp 2-stroke so both boat and outboard are manageable without any ramps etc... and in doing so don't worry about ultimate performance.

That's what i'm thinking with the small Mercury/Quicksilver boat (or similar small boat) and the 20HP (44kg engine). That would be my convenience setup.

Originally Posted by Fenlander

OR: Plan to use some sort of ramp system and go for whichever alloy/wood floor SIB you fancy up to 3.5m (I'd be looking at the Honwave 3.5 alloy floor for best value) and partner it with a 20hp which you can wheel down on some sort of trolley.

Does the tide go out far at that location? For the distance in your photos with 2/3 people you can part lift and skid a sib across nice sand like that.... no need for wheels.... particularly an air floor with sensible outboard size.

Many of us on here buy used outfits at keen prices and then if/when they are not exactly what we want can be sold on with minimal or no loss... as mentioned in the "Which SIB" thread.

The tide doesn't go out far, it stays pretty much as in the photos, but the water is quite low for the first 30-50 meters out.

I like this setup with the ramps too as it opens up to a better boat.

The Honwave T35 AE looks like a fine boat. But with the 73Kg, it's similar to these boats:

Bombard Typhoon 360 Alu - 64kg
Zodiac Classic Mark I Alu - 64kg
Zodiac Futura Mark II C Fastroller - 72 kg (air deck)

The last an airdeck, but how do they compare? (I have always been a sucker for the Zodiac boat with remote steering but haven't look at them due to weight) maybe it's the red color

Then I could use a 25HP engine?

Regarding getting a used setup then I'm all ears, but here in Denmark the used market is tiny and it's not easy to get a setup and just sell it again.

Thank you very much for helping with this!!

[Poly]

So thinking more aboutcthe davits idea, I think your issue is the reach you need to get over the boulders. Not checked any details but HIAB type loaders are available used on eBay for about the cost of a good trailer...

[NickDK]

Originally Posted by Poly

So thinking more aboutcthe davits idea, I think your issue is the reach you need to get over the boulders. Not checked any details but HIAB type loaders are available used on eBay for about the cost of a good trailer...

You're right! - The reach is a problem. I actually looked at small loaders like these and it gets pretty complicated with maintenance and so on.
Right now I'm trying to find a company who can create custom aluminium work and get their input on a Fast and Light and Flexible and temporary ramp setup - Anodized black of course

1:
Does anyone know how wide a ramp needs to be to fit the transom wheels? I'm thinking it might be an idea with a single wide ramp for stability (if it can be made light enough)

2:
Who manufactures the most durable transom wheels?

[Fenlander]

Transom wheels first...

Strongest conventional "long leg" type are Zodiac's own. They do two types the lighter ones (but still stronger than most) for the Cadet range and air floors. Seen here on my previous Fastroller 360...

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3927/zodiac2stern.jpg

Then they make the even stronger version for Aerotecs, Classic models etc. These have larger tyres and the distance of the top and lower fixings is further apart giving greater strength...

http://www.rib.net/forum/attachment....3&d=1424035174

Note neither of these flip... they have to be taken off and bolted back on inside the SIB resting on the tubes at an outward angle.

Next strongest are the Trem heavy duty type seen here on my current Zodiac 340 air floor (but now refitted a little further outwards)...

http://www.rib.net/forum/attachment....9&d=1428739114

These are HD type due to the extra attachment to the "button" near the bottom of the transom which spreads the load well.

Pretty well all the lighter duty flip up wheels are similar in strength to each other without a lower fixing.

The Beachmaster wheels look super strong but I have no experience of them. They do look really good and might be best for your use if the bulk, weight and cost is OK for you.

Both my sets of transom wheels fall in the 60-66cm width taken between tread centres.

[Fenlander]

Re SIB choices...

Ok so you're fine with the 44kg 20hp as your easy carry... assuming your budget is for new that makes it easier than searching for a used 15hp 2-stroke.

The Bombard Typhoon is part of the Zodiac/Bombard budget range. Nothing wrong in that but they have the hallmarks of Chinese build (nothing wrong with that either) like the Honwave T35AE... but are twice the price in the UK!

Using the Honwave as a benchmark again the Zodiac Classic Mk.1 is a little lighter, looks.. well classic and costs close on three times the Honwave.

The Futura air floor is light for its build quality and performance but I believe it is close on four times the Honwave cost. Very desirable SIB but I've no direct experience. Yep I think the red is a big part of the attraction.

[jeffstevens763@g]

saw a thread on here last night but cant find it about getting a SIB over rocks you can buy light weight industrial conveyors that bolt together secondhand make up a trolley that is captivated so it cant fall off push,lower on ropes,winch up and down.
by industrial conveyor just rollers not driven

[NickDK]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Transom wheels first...

Strongest conventional "long leg" type are Zodiac's own. They do two types the lighter ones (but still stronger than most) for the Cadet range and air floors. Seen here on my previous Fastroller 360...

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3927/zodiac2stern.jpg

Then they make the even stronger version for Aerotecs, Classic models etc. These have larger tyres and the distance of the top and lower fixings is further apart giving greater strength...

http://www.rib.net/forum/attachment....3&d=1424035174

Note neither of these flip... they have to be taken off and bolted back on inside the SIB resting on the tubes at an outward angle.

Next strongest are the Trem heavy duty type seen here on my current Zodiac 340 air floor (but now refitted a little further outwards)...

http://www.rib.net/forum/attachment....9&d=1428739114

These are HD type due to the extra attachment to the "button" near the bottom of the transom which spreads the load well.

Pretty well all the lighter duty flip up wheels are similar in strength to each other without a lower fixing.

The Beachmaster wheels look super strong but I have no experience of them. They do look really good and might be best for your use if the bulk, weight and cost is OK for you.

Both my sets of transom wheels fall in the 60-66cm width taken between tread centres.

Very useful info, thank you! - The Trem wheels you have seems like a good option. I'll also ask Beachmaster about the loading capacity as their system looks pretty clever too.
I would prefer the strongest possible setup, but I'm put off by having to dismount the Zodiac models. And i would also like some wheels that stores behind the transom and not popping up over the transom.

I found these with a 320kg load per set:
Kizo Marine

Youtube Video

- Have you heard about these wheels? (update: just read that they're sold out hmm)

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Re SIB choices...

Ok so you're fine with the 44kg 20hp as your easy carry... assuming your budget is for new that makes it easier than searching for a used 15hp 2-stroke.

The Bombard Typhoon is part of the Zodiac/Bombard budget range. Nothing wrong in that but they have the hallmarks of Chinese build (nothing wrong with that either) like the Honwave T35AE... but are twice the price in the UK!

Using the Honwave as a benchmark again the Zodiac Classic Mk.1 is a little lighter, looks.. well classic and costs close on three times the Honwave.

The Futura air floor is light for its build quality and performance but I believe it is close on four times the Honwave cost. Very desirable SIB but I've no direct experience. Yep I think the red is a big part of the attraction.

Thank you for the comments. Don't get me wrong regarding the "light" 44kg engine. I know it will be heavy to carry, but the 15 and 20HP versions weight the same, so I would have a hard time not getting the bigger model.
Regarding the Ramp'ed boating possibilities and comparing cost with the Honwave the difference is surely huge! - I would expect a much better boat for the increased price. - Also for the reason of adding a 25-30HP engine. I understand you as you mean much of the increased price is due to brand value?

But a whole other thing that caught my attention, what do you think about the small Alu RIB's like the Ribeye 350/370 or similar with a weight around the 70kg? I'm just wondering about the pros and cons for RIBS/SIBS in this size. As i'm able to keep the boat at the plateau with a cover it's not so important to be able to store the boat in a tiny package. It is still nice though but not a must.

[Fenlander]

Re Ribeye 350 alloy hull.

The only reason we use a SIB rather than a hard hull boat or small RIB is the need to carry it in the car and store in a small space at home.

If you are able to consider the Ribeye 350 I can only think it would be a super smallcraft ... outside my experience though but I do know they only weigh about halfway between an airfloor and hard floor SIB of a similar size. That's remarkable for a hard hull.

[Poly]

It was here http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=68767

Bombard 380 vs F-Rib vs ?? - Help choose right boat. I will try to merge your posts later!

[jeffstevens763@g]

cheers poly

[xj8jagman]

Why not just fit a HIAB on top of the wall bolted into the wall you wouldnt have the problems of stability that you have on a vehicle mounted HIAB. You can pick them up second hand resonably cheap

[NickDK]

Originally Posted by xj8jagman

Why not just fit a HIAB on top of the wall bolted into the wall you wouldnt have the problems of stability that you have on a vehicle mounted HIAB. You can pick them up second hand resonably cheap

Thank you for the input, I did look at bit at HIAB's - Very expensive and huge when they need this long reach with 7meter and 200kg+ Such a crane is also quite monstrous and have very low WAF.

[NickDK]

I'm looking for the possibilities in the 'small RIB' niche. I have found the Ribeye and the Highfield brand while reviewing old threads. I'm looking for something where the boat stays minimal and weight around 60-70kg - What other options are there on the market?

I'm considering this RIB as alternative to a solid floored quality SIB with 20-30HP 4 stroke Suzuki outboard (44-74kg)

I have looked at the F-RIB 375 as has a flat floor that I like. But I have been told that there's some problems with the construction that are being dealt with at the moment.

I haven't owner either a RIB or SIB so I'm all ears to the pros and cons to a small RIB over a typical SIB (Stowing the boat away is not so important to me)

I have a long thread going at the SIB forum regarding how to choose the right SIB and regarding my special launch logistics, and if anyone would like to read more, here's the link

[Max...]

Hi Nick, best to keep it all in one topic really but if I were you I'd just drive over and buy this double quick:

http://www.rib.net/forum/f21/honwave...tml#post685627

Fantastic deal and perfect for you. You can ask so many questions and get so many opinions in all your topics but best to just get a boat and try it, until you do that you won't know! Like most on here it might not be ideal first time but this can be sold on easily and is a bargain considering what you're getting.

[NickDK]

Originally Posted by Max...

Hi Nick, best to keep it all in one topic really but if I were you I'd just drive over and buy this double quick:

http://www.rib.net/forum/f21/honwave...tml#post685627

Fantastic deal and perfect for you. You can ask so many questions and get so many opinions in all your topics but best to just get a boat and try it, until you do that you won't know! Like most on here it might not be ideal first time but this can be sold on easily and is a bargain considering what you're getting.

I didn't mean to clutter the space with dual posts, I just thought that RIBs had to be discussed here

Thank you for the link to the package. It's definitely something to consider, but as I'm not located in UK I can't just snag something like that up.
Also the Honwave is the heaviest of the Alu floored boats I have looked at.

Regarding a small RIB, it would be nice to know how it compares in practicality. Is it different regarding beach launch and so on.
But feel free to merge the threads :-)

Thanks!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by NickDK

I didn't mean to clutter the space with dual posts, I just thought that RIBs had to be discussed here

No worries - we're not too anal about the separation, and I think they way people surf the forums has evolved over the years so most people probably see both sections anyway. I've merged them to save you regurgitating the whole story again...

However I noticed this on the American section and thing you might be trying to solve the problem back to front ;-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=Sx5J7AKGFWI

[willk]

Originally Posted by NickDK

It just takes out the spontaneity if i have to inflate the boat each time, compared to having it semi ready for take off.

I suspect that if "spontaneity" is a requirement, then this idea is doomed!

TBH, you can only use a SIB in the very best of weather - especially if the "crew" are rookies. Investing in an expensive system to launch a SIB is, IMO, a complete waste of time and money - like spending €5000 on a machine that opens the cupboard, grabs a tin and opens it for you when you suddenly feel hungry but disinclined to stand up - impressive but pointless!

As I see it, you have two choices here:

1. Buy a lightweight SIB and engine AND an automatic inflation pump. Make a decent holdall bag for the SIB and get a very good balloon wheeled trolley for the engine/holdall. Unpack on the beach and launch there each time. When you get bored with short local trips to the same places, sell the SIB and engine and use the trolley for something else. A small SIB full of adults is a fairly horrible experience.

2. Buy a smallish RIB - c.5-5.5m and moor it just off shore. When you're not using the house, recover and store it at the nearest marina/boatyard.