Bombard 380 vs F-Rib vs ?? - Help choose right boat.

[NickDK]

I have received some great input at this forum regarding Remote vs Tiller steering and the more I thought about the boat the more i realized that I need to start selecting the actual boat as my daily launching logistics are a bit special. I think I'll go for the new Suzuki 20HP as it's 44kg and it should be manageable. I don't know if the engine has some good handles for lifting it down to the beach though?

Here are the boat options I have found with a 20+HP rating and semi light weight:

F-Rib 360 - 48KG (Max 25HP - Sadly uneven floor)
F-Rib 375 - 62KG (Max 25HP - Heavy, but flat floor, good)
Bomb. Aerotec 380 - 43KG (Max 25 HP - Lightweight, V Shaped floor as minus )
Zodiac Cadet 350 ALU - 67 kg (Max 20HP - Heavy)
Zodiac Mark 1 Alu 350 - 64 kg (Max 25HP - Heavy)
MERC, Air Deck 320 - 46 kg (Max 20HP - Too Small?)
MERC, Air Deck 320 Fish - 49 kg (Max 20HP - Too Small?)
Honwave T38 IE (380) - 48 kg (Max 25HP - Semi V floor - Too large?)

I'm going to keep the boat inflated during the summer months. And it will be located very close to the sea.
I have tried to show my main obstacle in the attached drawing.

There's a 2 meter drop from the plateau where the boat is stored and down to the beach. Lifting the boat and engine down 1 by 1 is the only way to get it to the launch area. I'll have to carry the boat over some rocks (two person job) and this is why i'm looking for something pretty light.


I would like the boat to both be as fast as possible while I use it with friends for fun (Hence my 20HP rated boats). And also comfortable for family trips. Catch 22 it seems. The most efficient boats like the 380 and F-Rib 360 have uneven floors and my guess is that they'll be uncomfortable for the family runs(here comfortable refers to being able to use the floor surface for resting and roaming around for smaller kids while anchored and so on?) The F-Rib 375 has a flat floor but is heavy. The same goes for the ALU floor boats that are nice, but it would be annoying to deal with the floor if remove before lifting the parts to the launch area right? It seems hard to assemble these ALU floor boats.
My strategy is to not deflate the boat and only remove the engine after the runs. It will sit on the raised plateau with a boat cover while not in use.

I have read the 'Which sib' post and almost any other relevant posts and it seems all boats are compromises.

[piotr]

Can't you build some sort of "slide" ?

[Fenlander]

It's interesting that your launch site is similar to how the previous owner of my old Aerotec described its original use in Ireland.... two person launch over a boulder/rock area of foreshore. My boat was covered in small grazes on the black floor skin and these were much of the repair work I've done.

I'd say from experience anything heavier than a sub 45kg air floor is going to be a struggle in your location and anything getting up towards 70kg will be awkward even with a third person.

You are right that for family room, comfort and walking about space there is nothing like a 3.5m alloy floor SIB and that's why we spent some years with a hard floor SIB.

The difficulty in choosing is the main reason we've gone to some trouble to get an Aerotec to take on 2wks holiday alongside our existing flat air floor Zodiac... by the end of the period we'll know for sure which we want to keep.

[Max...]

If that was my house (presuming it is yours?) I'd forget a SIB and get a small 4m RIB with a 30 or 40 on the back, clear the rocks on the beach area and build a simple launch ramp (pair of scaffold planks, sand ladders etc) rolling the boat down on a simple launch trolley, winching it back up if necessary.

Much simpler surely for a few hours work?! And a 4m RIB will outperform any SIB by a long way.

If this does not appeal then I cannot help thinking you are over-analysing things. As per previous topics it all comes down to the same basic choice and compromise. 3.4 to 3.8m SIB, 15 - 25 engine etc, etc.

Are you inflating each time? No. So a solid floor is no issue.

Two people can easily carry or roll down on transom wheels any typical SIB over that distance.

Have you sat in a 3.4m SIB? There is no room for roaming!

A solid floor is good for the feel underneath but it is hard (literally) for kids to sit on so a mattress or similar may be needed.

Don't see the Aerotec inner V as a disadvantage. It is much deeper and safe feeling for kids in the bow, comfortable to kneel on and driving from the tube much more ergonomic for bracing against. Having said that, again in *your* circumstances a solid floor would be the one I'd choose.

Really, I'd read the sticky (again) or topic below:

http://www.rib.net/forum/f50/advice-...est-68716.html

It's all been said a gazillion times before but all boats are a compromise.

But coming back to your (dream) house, just clear the rocks!

[Andy C]

Lifting and carrying a 20hp 4 stroke is easier said than done, I certainly wouldn't fancy trying to get one up and down over those rocks on a regular basis.

I'd suggest going to to a dealers to try moving one around, and then imagine yourself with 2m drop over boulders, before you commit to buying one.

[Poly]

Assuming that you own the flat plateaux at the top where you are storing the boat then I think Max is thinking along the right lines. Either (a) create some sort of temporary wooden / plastic slide that gets it over the rocks using a winch to haul it up/down OR (b) construct a big davit/derrick which would let you lift the boat and swing it out over the rocks and lower it down. Assuming of course that you can't remove the rocks.

[Fenlander]

Rocks... I'm thinking coastal defences!

May be heavier but a boat that would stand winching/dragging over smooth boulders is a Poly boat like this...

Pioner - Pioner 13 - versatile, tough and easy to handle

They will take huge abuse and may be better than a SIB or RIB in this location.

[Poly]

I'm a bit of a poly boat fan, but I can't see you just dragging over those boulders!

[Fenlander]

Well OK perhaps some sort of wooden rail to assist or tarp draped over the boulders... but if there is a risk of bumping the hard stuff those poly boats shrug it off really well.

[NickDK]

Thank you so much for all the great info! - I have commented inline below.

Originally Posted by piotr

Can't you build some sort of "slide" ?

I have thought about ramps and have researched the topic. Because of rules regarding the coastal protection the ramps would have to be temporary and each section would have to be 6 m in length to reach the beach. Such a ramp section in aluminium would weigh approx 70kg, so each section would be very hard to handle.

Originally Posted by Fenlander

It's interesting that your launch site is similar to how the previous owner of my old Aerotec described its original use in Ireland....
I'd say from experience anything heavier than a sub 45kg air floor is going to be a struggle in your location.

You are right that for family room, comfort and walking about space there is nothing like a 3.5m alloy floor SIB.

The difficulty in choosing is the main reason we've gone to some trouble to get an Aerotec to take on 2wks holiday alongside our existing flat air floor Zodiac... by the end of the period we'll know for sure which we want to keep.

Great info! - Thank you. It will be very interesting to hear your results from the two weeks testing.

Originally Posted by Max...

If that was my house (presuming it is yours?) I'd forget a SIB and get a small 4m RIB with a 30 or 40 on the back, clear the rocks on the beach area and build a simple launch ramp (pair of scaffold planks, sand ladders etc) rolling the boat down on a simple launch trolley, winching it back up if necessary.

Much simpler surely for a few hours work?! And a 4m RIB will outperform any SIB by a long way.

Yes it is my house
This is also my dream to have such a setup, but it has proven pretty hard. The rocks can't be removed as they need to be there for coastal protection, so the ramps would have to be on top and they would be long. Each section about 6m, a scaffold plank in this length will be very heavy. Also there's not room to maneuver at the beach, if the boat is 250kg with engine then it will probably be hard to launch and turn with a pair of launch wheels?

Originally Posted by Max...

If this does not appeal then I cannot help thinking you are over-analysing things. As per previous topics it all comes down to the same basic choice and compromise. 3.4 to 3.8m SIB, 15 - 25 engine etc, etc.

I'm very sure i'm over analyzing things, but it's very important that this project turns our to be a good experience.

Originally Posted by Max...

Are you inflating each time? No. So a solid floor is no issue.

The plan is to not inflate each time. I'll just top up the boat pressure if needed at the storage plateau. The only issue from a solid floor is the weight.

Originally Posted by Max...

Two people can easily carry or roll down on transom wheels any typical SIB over that distance.

Have you sat in a 3.4m SIB? There is no room for roaming!

A solid floor is good for the feel underneath but it is hard (literally) for kids to sit on so a mattress or similar may be needed.

Thank you for the floor surface info. The hardness on top of the unevenness is why I'm hesitant regarding the F-Rib 360, it must be really uncomfortable.
I haven't sat in a 3.4m SIB, since my kids are very small (1 and 3, I do not see them as taking up much space, so that's why I wanted something just big enough. I have heard that kids grow, so maybe it's good with some additional space

Originally Posted by Max...

Don't see the Aerotec inner V as a disadvantage. It is much deeper and safe feeling for kids in the bow, comfortable to kneel on and driving from the tube much more ergonomic for bracing against. Having said that, again in *your* circumstances a solid floor would be the one I'd choose.

Really, I'd read the sticky (again) or topic below:

http://www.rib.net/forum/f50/advice-...est-68716.html

It's all been said a gazillion times before but all boats are a compromise.

But coming back to your (dream) house, just clear the rocks!

Thank you for all input Max! - Very much appreciated. I know my question is generic and covered here many times. It just feels a bit different as I'm not using a trailer or car boot as part of the setup.

Originally Posted by Andy C

Lifting and carrying a 20hp 4 stroke is easier said than done, I certainly wouldn't fancy trying to get one up and down over those rocks on a regular basis.

I'd suggest going to to a dealers to try moving one around, and then imagine yourself with 2m drop over boulders, before you commit to buying one.

Good idea, we'll try this Does anyone know if the engine has some decent handles??

Originally Posted by Poly

Assuming that you own the flat plateaux at the top where you are storing the boat then I think Max is thinking along the right lines. Either (a) create some sort of temporary wooden / plastic slide that gets it over the rocks using a winch to haul it up/down OR (b) construct a big davit/derrick which would let you lift the boat and swing it out over the rocks and lower it down. Assuming of course that you can't remove the rocks.

Yes it's my plateau, and you're right I can't remove the rocks.
I have seriously considered a large swing davit, and a SIB/RIB setup with a single point for lifting. It just gets very complicated real quick. I haven't given totally up on this idea, but it might be a larger future project.

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Rocks... I'm thinking coastal defences!

May be heavier but a boat that would stand winching/dragging over smooth boulders is a Poly boat like this...

Pioner - Pioner 13 - versatile, tough and easy to handle

They will take huge abuse and may be better than a SIB or RIB in this location.

I looked at the Poly boat, and I don't really understand the concept. It's both heavy and and not capable of much engine power :/

[Poly]

Can you try a poly boat you might be surprised how little power is needed and how a heavy boat isn't the end of the world unless you have to carry it. I think we all agree though you are compromising on boat because of your launch restrictions. I've seen an old traditional fishing boat winched up a ladder at about 30 degrees with two bits of plastic pipe (3" gas pipe?) screwed to it. That was a grass slope into fresh water but the concept would work if you had a solid hull.

[NickDK]

Interesting concept with the 3" gas pipe! - It does require some ingenuity getting something setup if the boat starts to be heavy. But it would be nice to be able to have a ready setup on the plateau.

[Fenlander]

OK so here's a bit of lateral thinking...

If you were to stick to a light SIB like the Aerotec where the boulders may threaten the fabric if it was heavily scuffed...

What about fixing a ring into one of the large boulders just in the water and have the boat on a pulley suspended from a wire keeping it above the boulders??

[NickDK]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

OK so here's a bit of lateral thinking...

If you were to stick to a light SIB like the Aerotec where the boulders may threaten the fabric if it was heavily scuffed...

What about fixing a ring into one of the large boulders just in the water and have the boat on a pulley suspended from a wire keeping it above the boulders??

I like thinking out of the box, but the scuffing you're talking about is that because it's hard to carry down the 43Kg boat without hitting the rocks (I haven't thought that it would be hard)

Fixing a ring to the large boulders is possible, but do you mean a permanent 'cableway' from the plateau to the large boulders? (local rules wouldn't permit it)

[Fenlander]

Well I thought a cable you could just pull out to launch/recover.

Re heavy scuffing when carrying...

That's a very awkward carry with the possibility of either/both persons slipping and catching the boat on the boulders.

Have you thought what you'd be holding to carry the boat? Like many SIBS the Aerotec doesn't have a carry handle each side at the point of balance... I guess you could fit some but even so the boat would see-saw as you carried it with the risk of catching either end.

You could try and carry an Aerotec by the grab rails but that's awkward as well because you end up lifting your arm up to an uncomfortable high point.

Ideally to carry a SIB over difficult ground you need three people... one on the bow ring and one each side at the stern using the rear lift handles.

Actually that reminds me... the Honwave 3.5 I had last year was fitted as standard with a lift handle on the inside of each tube just behind the transom. So one person could be on the bow and the other walking in between the rear tubes carrying a bit like a wheelbarrow. Made for a really easy lift.

[NickDK]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Well I thought a cable you could just pull out to launch/recover.

Ah ok, I understand - I think it will require a long cable that might be hard to stretch out, but i'll think about it some more.

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Re heavy scuffing when carrying...

That's a very awkward carry with the possibility of either/both persons slipping and catching the boat on the boulders.

Have you thought what you'd be holding to carry the boat? Like many SIBS the Aerotec doesn't have a carry handle each side at the point of balance... I guess you could fit some but even so the boat would see-saw as you carried it with the risk of catching either end.

You could try and carry an Aerotec by the grab rails but that's awkward as well because you end up lifting your arm up to an uncomfortable high point.

Ideally to carry a SIB over difficult ground you need three people... one on the bow ring and one each side at the stern using the rear lift handles.

Actually that reminds me... the Honwave 3.5 I had last year was fitted as standard with a lift handle on the inside of each tube just behind the transom. So one person could be on the bow and the other walking in between the rear tubes carrying a bit like a wheelbarrow. Made for a really easy lift.

I didn't think so much about this but it's a good point and I can see the handles are in a good position on both the Honwave and the F-Rib.

[prairie tuber]

Given that this is right at your residence, I'd suggest building some ramp tracks and using a dolly with beach wheels and a small electric winch (with synthetic polyethylene rope rather than steel cable) that is attached to the dolly.

Jet Ski (PWC) Dolly 36- from Wheeleez, Inc.

[Max...]

Originally Posted by NickDK

Yes it is my house
This is also my dream to have such a setup, but it has proven pretty hard. The rocks can't be removed as they need to be there for coastal protection, so the ramps would have to be on top and they would be long. Each section about 6m, a scaffold plank in this length will be very heavy. Also there's not room to maneuver at the beach, if the boat is 250kg with engine then it will probably be hard to launch and turn with a pair of launch wheels?

Honestly, I think most of us would give our right arm for water access a few yards from our house like that.

Mankind has a history of amazing, seemingly impossible engineering projects around the world - I can't believe that a couple of blokes, a morning of head scratching and a visit to the builder's yard wouldn't find a ramped solution that is workable over a few yards of rocks...!

I'd clear the rocks in the water/launch area (not the ones on your house boundary), stick with a hard floor SIB and use any lightweight ramp material - maybe some PVC 6" half-pipe sections that slide into each other for storage then overlap each end with a pin dropped through a hole in each to secure or similar, easy to assemble, store, use. Or some off-road waffle boards (like lightweight sand ladders), etc, etc.

Or rearrange two rows of the rocks to match the transom/dolly wheels track and minimise the gaps and infill with aggregate/concrete to smooth the path enough, does't need to be perfectly smooth - larger pneumatic wheels will roll over the smaller bumps.

[Fenlander]

I always think there's mileage in revisiting previous successful engineering projects for ideas...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRceUPYVlrc

But obviously you will have more buoyancy!

[Fenlander]

A photo taken from the beach level across the boulders up to the house would help understand the obstacle more.