Buying old Zodiac - glue life

[dhaglund]

Hi.

I am new to SIBs and to this forum. I am considering buying an old Zodiac Futura Mark IIc with the aluminium floor. But I have already read many posts on this forum saying that the seams will fail because glue gets old regardless of usage and care.

This particular boat is in pretty much "as new" conditions due to the fact that it has only been used a few times since new. It was new sometime in the ninety's, so it more than 20 years old. It has always been stored inside when not used. Seller wants €1300 for it and another €1000 for a very nice -92 Evinrude 25 XP (short shaft, tiller, pull start). The boat comes with launch wheels, a foot pump and a manometer but no trailer or bow bag. I have not seen the boat yet but will on Sunday unless you steer me away.

So is this where I just walk away, or does anyone actually have old Zodiacs that are still going strong?

[909]

Remember this , the number 1 reason why people sell inflatables is because they're leaking .

All glue will eventually fail.

Guaranteed.

You might end up fixing it more often than boating.

Or you might get lucky.

If this is your first boat , get something newer , simple, and light.

Buy only welded seams.

After you've fixed a few boats , get something older if you feel up for a challenge.

Constantly fixing boats gets annoying really fast.

But constantly spending time on the water , well you can never get enough of that.

Buy cheap and find a bargain, use it for a bit, resell it for more. Use those funds to upgrade to a newer / bigger boat for free.

Do that a couple times, and you'll know what you like but more importantly you'll know what you don't like.

[TmMorris]

I think the above makes very good sense. The other concern for me is that if the owner has only used it a few times, always stored it inside, how did he lose the bag?

I have an early 80s Avon that, as a family, we have owned from new. It's never been used heavily and spent most of its life in a boat locker, then my father's garage, my sister's and for the last 5 years in mine. It's always been washed and put away dry. For about ten years it was primarily used by my father as a paddling pool for his grandchildren. It' still has its bag. In fact, I was only pondering the other day how a bag made in the 80s and dragged out of boat lockers, pushed about on shelves and sling into car boots is in better condition than the boat bag that came with a boat I bought this summer.

I would just question how such a little used and well loved boat loses its bag.

As for the glue nearly 40 years on? It seems pretty sound. Nowhere has begun to pull away but maybe that is because it has not been invited to. I've been using the boat on rivers and places where swimming or wading ashore is a non issue. I wouldn't use the boat anywhere else because while it seems completely sound you never know if greater stresses are going to see it pull part.

I think the other thing is that 25hp motor might be quite heavy to be lifting on and off?

The package seems like a great package for being quite adventurous offshore but the age makes me feel it shouldn't be going that far offshore and the package weight suggests it could be a lot of hard work.

I think it makes more sense to establish what it is you want a boat for, how and where you will be using it and then looking at set ups that fit your needs. I suspect many unused packages come about because the focus is on the package first then trying to get it to fit the desired use.

Maybe over winter pick up someone's newer and smaller set up as they upgrade to something larger and then spend next season learning 100% what you want, where and how you want to use it and the following winter buy a different set up of needs be and sell the original one in the Spring?

[909]

Originally Posted by TmMorris

25hp motor might be quite heavy to be lifting on and off ...... it could be a lot of hard work.

People don't realize, boats are heavy and cumbersome.

Outboards are the same.

Are you strong ? Do you even lift weights ?

Wouldn't it make sense, if you didn't exercise to start small and light , and eventually work your way up to something bigger and heavier ?

Generally a 15 HP or 80 LBS is what I'd consider the max that a person can lift comfortably.

[Fenlander]

I've had 30 and 40 year old Avons and Zodiacs like Tim which have been holding up well... but they were Hypalon and the OP's possible Futura buy will be PVC. The glue joints on PVC struggle to last as long as 20yrs.... 18yr life my Zodiac dealer told me and that 18-20yr glue failure point has been demonstrated with member's SIBs on here time and again.

I would not buy a 20yr old PVC Zodiac unless it appeared sound at the time and I just wanted it for a few runs to test the type's suitability for my use... and it would have to be about a third of the price of that Futura.

In truth to re-glue a transom or floor properly is no fun and the time would be better spent on the water with a newer sound SIB.

[909]

It takes years of experience to properly glue a floor or transom.

If a novice glued a transom or floor, I probably wouldn't even get on the boat ....

Unless we were staying very close to shore.

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by 909

People don't realize, boats are heavy and cumbersome.

Outboards are the same.

Are you strong ? Do you even lift weights ?

Wouldn't it make sense, if you didn't exercise to start small and light , and eventually work your way up to something bigger and heavier ?

Generally a 15 HP or 80 LBS is what I'd consider the max that a person can lift comfortably.

For me, the sweat spot is an old 15hp 2 stroke at 34kg. A 20 is tempting, who doesn't want a bit more oomph but the extra 10kg turns a relatively easy pack up at the end of the day into quite a bit more of an exercise without another pair of hands or respecting to a trolly etc. The 15 is the limit of what I can carry one handed and comfortably hoist into the back of the car without risk of car or body damage. Plus, my brain likes the simplicity of a 2 stroke. My wallet likes them as much.

[Oldman2]

Be a weakling like me and get Russians to help lighten the load https://mikefettles.blogspot.com/202...-outboard.html

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by Oldman2

Be a weakling like me and get Russians to help lighten the load https://mikefettles.blogspot.com/202...-outboard.html

Weakling or the wisdom of age?

[bomberman]

Originally Posted by 909

It takes years of experience to properly glue a floor or transom.

If a novice glued a transom or floor, I probably wouldn't even get on the boat ....

Unless we were staying very close to shore.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that given I did both with no experience, but you do need time, patience and space. Ultimately there is only one way to get experience! But to concur with your last statement in part, for a couple of hours in the water after I had done it, I didn't stray too far from the shore!! That said, I think it would be sensible advice to buy one that doesn't need anything doing to it and spend the time on the water enjoying it than enjoying the vapours provided by solvents and glues

[Fenlander]

Bomberman is perhaps too modest to link his excellent methodical repair work on his Aerotec. He's quite the exception in applying himself to the task with great dedication to get a great result. Much respect...

https://www.rib.net/forum/f50/bombar...oor-77045.html

[bomberman]

Thanks Fenlander. It has survived a few years of boating and some relatively heavy seas since the repair. Maybe a relevant comment to the thread would be the 15hp 2 stroke outboard (43kg - Suzuki) which is heavy for a 2 stroke, but also very heavy to lug for any distance...more so now than a few years ago when I was a lot stronger and fitter and it shouldn't be underestimated how that can affect your ability and motivation for using the boat. As others far wiser than me have said on this forum, it is generally a trade off between weight of outfit and size......I would love a 25hp outboard, but I wouldn't be able to carry it anything like as far, which would then limit the tide states I would be prepared to launch.

[dhaglund]

Originally Posted by TmMorris

I think the above makes very good sense. The other concern for me is that if the owner has only used it a few times, always stored it inside, how did he lose the bag?

The bag is not lost. I just didn't think to mention it. There is a bag for the floor as well.

[dhaglund]

Originally Posted by 909

People don't realize, boats are heavy and cumbersome.

Outboards are the same.

Are you strong ? Do you even lift weights ?

Wouldn't it make sense, if you didn't exercise to start small and light , and eventually work your way up to something bigger and heavier ?

Generally a 15 HP or 80 LBS is what I'd consider the max that a person can lift comfortably.

The outboard weighs 52 kg and is 521 cc. It is the same engine as the 30 hp except for carburetor and intake. I think it is pretty powerful for its size. Probably capable of reaching 25 knots with that boat, which is about right I think. Surely it would be cumbersome to lift that engine into the car but I would only do it a few times a year and rarely by myself.

[dhaglund]

Thank you all for your advice. I turned this opportunity down not because the weight of the package but because of the age of this PVC boat.

I offered to pay €500 for the boat and $1000 for the motor since I expect to have a project on my hands after a few trips even if the boat may be in great shape now. The seller turned this offer down and I don't blame him. He still thinks the boat is in great shape (and it probably is). Regardless I don't need another project so I can't pay more. I would need some coin left to have it repaired if necessary.

I still think this boat would have been great for my teenagers to play with and for me to bring on an occasional trip, but a newer one. Normally we use our RIB Unlimited 700 several times a week in the summer but I keep that on a trailer which means that the kids can't use it alone. Except for the oldest that has a drivers license.

[bomberman]

Originally Posted by dhaglund

The outboard weighs 52 kg and is 521 cc. It is the same engine as the 30 hp except for carburetor and intake. I think it is pretty powerful for its size. Probably capable of reaching 25 knots with that boat, which is about right I think. Surely it would be cumbersome to lift that engine into the car but I would only do it a few times a year and rarely by myself.

25 knots sounds like fun! 52kg doesn't sound bad for a 25hp, The only way to know is to have a look and try lifting it....if I could get away with having a 25hp I definitely would (and many people do).
If you are concerned about glue failure, just check the joints see if any of them look like they are separating.
Good luck

[dhaglund]

Originally Posted by Oldman2

Be a weakling like me and get Russians to help lighten the load https://mikefettles.blogspot.com/202...-outboard.html

Excellent product! Not fast, but back-saving to be sure.

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by dhaglund

Thank you all for your advice. I turned this opportunity down not because the weight of the package but because of the age of this PVC boat.

I offered to pay €500 for the boat and $1000 for the motor since I expect to have a project on my hands after a few trips even if the boat may be in great shape now. The seller turned this offer down and I don't blame him. He still thinks the boat is in great shape (and it probably is). Regardless I don't need another project so I can't pay more. I would need some coin left to have it repaired if necessary.

I still think this boat would have been great for my teenagers to play with and for me to bring on an occasional trip, but a newer one. Normally we use our RIB Unlimited 700 several times a week in the summer but I keep that on a trailer which means that the kids can't use it alone. Except for the oldest that has a drivers license.

With a big RIB like that and it's regular use what about a small SIB and outboard that you can stow onboard and then just let the children blow up and use from the RIB? When I was young being able to escape from the boat on a small inflatable, on my own, was the ultimate freedom. All my father would do was lift it out of the locker and onto the foredeck and leave me to inflate and launch then he'd drop the small outboard on and I'd be free. .

[dhaglund]

Speaking of old Zodiacs, here is another pristine boat. Assembled 3-4 times. For sale by the original owner that bought it new in probably 1981.

https://www.tradera.com/item/302468/...t-modell-2528-

Seller wants approximately €2000. Perhaps it is so vintage that it costs extra? Or could it be that Zodiacs last forever in Sweden?