Cat hull sibs are great!!! - Page 2

dverstege · 28 July 2008, 12:41

That's 4km per liter. Just wondering would you say a 4 stroke would have brought that up to 6km per liter? I am back to selling my metzeler and brigs in hopes that next year get the GRX 420. Would like to step up to a 30-40 4 stroke. Would also like to put a running sun canopy and a steering wheel in it with two bench seats that can be removed, maybe a 470:-) My metzeler empty is about 575lbs, the gemini with wifes camping gear( a lot more than mine) I figure on 500-600lbs. I know you load your 470 heavy just wondering how the cat hull holds up and does it stay as ridged over chop. Also how is the steering with that large of load?

dverstege · 28 July 2008, 13:04

Sorry for getting a bit off topic but I'm trying to sell both my boats and pick up a cat hull sib. It's nice to hear your enthusiasm for this style of boats as will. From what I can understand yours is lighter than the Dive Gemini maybe more like the GRX. Just wondering do you think a 30hp 4 stroke plus 500lbs of people and gear would do the trick to get from A to B then empty it and still have fun pulling a tube?

prairie tuber · 28 July 2008, 13:29

Dan,

Apparently Evinrude is coming out with a 30 hp ETEC that is going to weigh somewhere around 150 lbs. Similar in weight to a 30 hp 4 stroke, but it should have a bit more zip with just as good of fuel economy. I'd be curious to try a 4.2 GRX or a 4.1 surfcat to see how they perfom as well. The fellow I bought my boat from uses some waterproof PVC duffle bags (similar to the Sealine ones, but he makes them himself) that he straps on top of the tubes of his GRX when he and his wife go on a multiday trip, whic frees up floorspace.

There can be a small mount of floorboard flex when going fast over very choppy conditions.

If you are ever out to Manitoba, let me know and we'll take the boat out.

Ed the Duck · 29 July 2008, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easyrider

The difference is that the sibs with speed tubes still have a centeral keel/hull-this is the part that causes the slamming in a chop.The Surfcat hull is a catermaran hull with a deep but thin sponson/hijacker either side of a flat deck-the best way to see the profile is to google an image search for "thundercat boat" or "zapcat" as these have exactly the same setup(slightly different profile though).
I should imagine that it is possible to add speed tubes, which will make it more stable at speed, but you will still get the pounding when out in a slight chop due the hull profile.
Hope this makes sence.

This is my Gemini 420 Surf/GRX at about 20-25kts on a flat day, no payload. Note how the base of the cat hulls are reinforced with a rubber triangular profile. The shape helps slice through chop.

As you can tell by my previous posts, I love this boat. Having helmed various SIBs and RIBs from 12-36ft, I haven't found anything that leaves me with the same smile at the end of a day on the water. No other boat I have come across combines the same single-handed practicality, speed, seaworthiness and payload capacity.

I bought this boat in 2003, primarily so that I could self launch from a surf beach, cross an exposed bay (11NM) and return safely at the end of the day. Bar a few capsizes (my fault, whilst playing in large surf with high onshore winds), it has proved to be a superb boat, capable of a significant amount of abuse.

It's now seeing use as a family day boat, a weekend expedition boat and a tow/safety boat for big wave surfers.

I will probably add to it with a Caesar Surfcat early next year (providing Caesar finally get back to me regarding whether they can produce the boat in hypalon). Expeditions around a few more of the UK's exposed coasts beckon in 2009!

Ed

dverstege · 01 August 2008, 23:10

Has anyone heard of this?
http://www.thundercatinflatable.com....86.html?p=3205

Does this miss badging happen often? Makes you wonder about ordering on line or by mail from other countries.

Easyrider · 02 August 2008, 00:13

I know what you mean- ive read that thread before. The only thing that would concern me is that you just dont know what the quality of workmanship/materials used is like, its probably absolutely fine, but we all know dodgy quality stuff keeps getting churned out from over that way.
I'd be interested to know what the prices are though.

This looks like a practical thundercat- http://www.zebec.co.kr/english/boat/others_torpedo.htm

SnappingTurtle · 02 August 2008, 12:10

I stumbled across two companies, when looking for inflatable information in the Internet.

One in China and the other in Korea. The Chinese had models from many well known brands and said they now produce for over twenty western companies. They produce to your specs, Hypalon or PVC, it is all up to you. Every option you could think of was available, all being seen in the high end of the market and a lot that has not made the mass-market yet.

RIBs with aluminum, glass or kevlar/composite hulls, etc. Low End, High End, you decide. They will ship naked tubes, or complete boats.

Minimum order was 200.

The Korean company was similar, but listed a fewer number of companies that it delivered to.

These websites were both aimed at the manufactures, and were not consumer oriented.

Both factories looked "state of the art", and well equipped with all new looking western branded equipment. Not the type of facilities you are used to seeing in this market. There was a lot of money being invested by someone there.

I wish I had kept the links but it was no surprise to me, and when I read the minimum order, I quickly read through the pages and moved on. I was looking for something else at the time.

The problem for us living in Europe is there is no law here, that requires a “Country of Origin” or “Country of Manufacture” label as is legally required in North America.

If you live here, you will never know for sure if you are really buying what you are being told you are buying, i.e. a locally produced product.

prairie tuber · 02 August 2008, 14:40

I am familiar with the zebec boats, and while inexpensive, they just aren't going to have anywhere near the life expectancy of the South Afican built cat hulls. That and they simply will not perform as well either. I'd rather save up and pay double for a product that will last 6 times as long as the Korean or Chinese made knock off.

dverstege · 02 August 2008, 19:51

What I got from the the blog was that the Korean, Chinese were making knock offs and badging them Gemini's ex: just like they do with watches.

BumbleAbout · 03 August 2008, 13:17

I looked at these a couple of years ago, but I wanted to seat 4 (including 2 children) and it didn't look easy.

If you had a choice between say a 5.2m RIB and one of the Caesar surfcats - which one would you pick in a choppy sea (I'm starting to venture further afield and the Zodiac slams too much for the children's liking) ?

prairie tuber · 03 August 2008, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by BumbleAbout

I looked at these a couple of years ago, but I wanted to seat 4 (including 2 children) and it didn't look easy.

If you had a choice between say a 5.2m RIB and one of the Caesar surfcats - which one would you pick in a choppy sea (I'm starting to venture further afield and the Zodiac slams too much for the children's liking) ?

Bumble,

Both Ed the Duck and Easyrider could give you some specific info about how the surfs and surfcats compare to longer RIBs, since they have experience with a variety of different RIBs, and I don't. Having said that, it is a bit of an apples-oranges comparison given the difference in length and weight of a 5.2m RIB to that of a 4.1m surfcat and a 4.2m surf. I imagine a Gemini Dive 530 would be a bit more fair of a comparison of a cat hull SIB to a 5.2m RIB.

Even amongst various makes of 5.2 m RIBs, their ride smoothness in the chop will be affected by the keel profile and the weight of the boat. Generally, a deeper V keel profile and a heavier RIB will be smoother in the rough, but will also require more engine power. I know that my Dive 470 rides a little more smoothly in rough waters if it is loaded with gear than unloaded. The beauty of the cat hull SIB compared to a RIB of similar length is that the SIB will still be much lighter and require alot less power.

BumbleAbout · 04 August 2008, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

I know that my Dive 470 rides a little more smoothly in rough waters if it is loaded with gear than unloaded. The beauty of the cat hull SIB compared to a RIB of similar length is that the SIB will still be much lighter and require alot less power.

prairie - thanks - I understand that it's a very difficult comparison and I was totally sold on the lighter weight cat hull SIB's category which the Zodiac just squeezes into.

However, given that we trailer it around and also have a 3m + 5hp SIB I'm starting to investigate whether a "deep V" 5.5m (ish) RIB is a more sensible choice for longer 10-20 mile journeys in a wider range of "less calm" seas.

Last week we turned back (at the children's request) on a couple of journeys because they were uncomfortable with the boat handling in a moderate sea state - to be fair I'm much happier doing that than being unsafe or frightening them. I have to say that the Zodiac has been fantastic for estuary journeys and shorter (a few miles) hops out in a calm sea for sightseeing/ waterskiing etc.

Easyrider · 04 August 2008, 16:02

The best thing for you to do is to actually try them out, the reason why i opted for the Surfcat was because of its overall weight/power/stability/economy/extreme handling(pulls about 2g's in the turns)/comfort. I usually launch mine off a pebbly beach with a launch trolley-which can be done single handedly but is hard work, and use the club winch to pull it back up. When its not used in the winter,i can partially deflate it, and prop it up inside my garage and still have room for the car to go in.
If i didnt get the surfcat , then i probably would have got a thundercat, and failing that, i would have got a 4Tec engined Seadoo sportster over a rib.

anthony · 04 August 2008, 20:53

I am looking the replace my bombard aerotec.Does the surf cat pack down and go in a bag like the aerotec or is it alot bigger.

Easyrider · 04 August 2008, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthony

I am looking the replace my bombard aerotec.Does the surf cat pack down and go in a bag like the aerotec or is it alot bigger.

The Aerotec will pretty much fit into the Surfcat!!!
I used to have an aerotec 380, which used to fit on the back seat of of my saloon car- you will definately not be able to do this with a surfcat, having said that, when i picked the boat up, we deflated it, removed the 3 floor pannels and rolled it up fairly loosely and just about got it in the back of my mates Citroen Ballingo car/van with the rear seats down in about 10 mins.I think that if it was rolled up tightly, it would probably fit into a Vectra sized hatchback with the rear seats down, but there wouldnt be much room, if any, to fit an engine in though.
Another thing to remember is that although it only weighs 25 odd kilos more than an aerotec, its a lot more bulky package-the transom alone(including where it partially wraps around the sponsons) is the width of the aerotec fully inflated.
Its not really designed to be taken apart regulary-best left on a bunker trailer.

MikeL · 13 September 2008, 21:09

Hi - any idea how much the surfcat made out of hypalon will weigh? Also how much strength or life span do you think it would add changing material.

I was looking at the surfcat in the original material and running at 30hp on the back? Thats if I ever find a second hand one!

Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Duck

This is my Gemini 420 Surf/GRX at about 20-25kts on a flat day, no payload. Note how the base of the cat hulls are reinforced with a rubber triangular profile. The shape helps slice through chop.

As you can tell by my previous posts, I love this boat. Having helmed various SIBs and RIBs from 12-36ft, I haven't found anything that leaves me with the same smile at the end of a day on the water. No other boat I have come across combines the same single-handed practicality, speed, seaworthiness and payload capacity.

I bought this boat in 2003, primarily so that I could self launch from a surf beach, cross an exposed bay (11NM) and return safely at the end of the day. Bar a few capsizes (my fault, whilst playing in large surf with high onshore winds), it has proved to be a superb boat, capable of a significant amount of abuse.

It's now seeing use as a family day boat, a weekend expedition boat and a tow/safety boat for big wave surfers.

I will probably add to it with a Caesar Surfcat early next year (providing Caesar finally get back to me regarding whether they can produce the boat in hypalon). Expeditions around a few more of the UK's exposed coasts beckon in 2009!

Ed

dim. · 18 September 2008, 16:08

Saturn version of the Cat SIB ...
http://www.boatstogo.com/inflatable_boat_pb430.asp

Why they are trying to limit it to the 15hp?

Easyrider · 22 September 2008, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by dim.

Saturn version of the Cat SIB ...
http://www.boatstogo.com/inflatable_boat_pb430.asp

Why they are trying to limit it to the 15hp?

Could be several factors-transom not strong enough,too light,flex's too much,instability.......................

Strange but different design.

With a bow like that I bet it'd stop dead if you hit surf with it!! Probably best suited to rivers/lakes.

ian parkes · 22 September 2008, 20:49

I noticed when looking at details of my rib that loadstar also do a number of cat hull versions with air floor or alloy etc .Looks similar to the futura with a vhull as well as the hijackers
They also offer a hypalon sib

http://www.lodestarinflatables.com/trimax3d.htm

Easyrider · 23 September 2008, 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

I noticed when looking at details of my rib that loadstar also do a number of cat hull versions with air floor or alloy etc .Looks similar to the futura with a vhull as well as the hijackers
They also offer a hypalon sib

http://www.lodestarinflatables.com/trimax3d.htm

Looks like they do a good range of boats-i remember you questioning about putting a 50 on the back of yours-just noticed that they rate yours as a max 40 4 stroke, must be a weight limit, so your 2 stroke shouldnt be a problem at all. Did you try the 1/2 choke on your last outing???