Challenging Aerotec floor repair.

Fenlander · 11 September 2018, 12:34

While I've had the aerotec inflated in the garage to do the transom job I've noticed the left side floor panel loses some pressure over a day or two. Measured it at a 10% pressure loss per 12hrs.

Quick go over with leak detection fluid and I have found the problem. At the very start of the joining flap fusion (it's heat welded on these later ones) a very small sharp stone had become trapped and worked it's way into the material enough to leak.

Images of the flap, the bubbles and the tiny hole (a sort of grey dot on the image in the bit I've pulled back).

If this was in the middle of an area of floor very easy to repair. However...

Ideally I'd like to get a patch around 60mm dia on a HP floor leak. But this location is a pig and I reckon I'll have to Stanley knife the flap from the floor for a distance... patch and then attach the flap back with a reinforcing strip. But there's a problem with that if you see the reinforcing tape which also seems to be heat welded... but it is only PVC coated one side so part of my patch would be trying to stick to what I guess is woven fibreglass.... which I don't think would work.

Any thoughts appreciated before the Stanley knife comes out.

Max... · 11 September 2018, 12:52

Hmm, I'd be reluctant to 'disassemble' more to treat a very small hole. I'd try the below and if not I'd probably live with it - too many times over the years I've dived in and made things worse - only now with age can I make myself hold back and learn from it!

I'd be looking at a chemical repair - ie a flexible two part epoxy, maybe try some PU (Sikaflex etc) or even a bit of plastic welding (with a solder iron) but this is risky. You need some of the material to practise on but it might work melting and dripping/welding into the hole.

One side of mine goes down slightly more quickly than the other but never enough to be an issue.

But definitely try a drop of some chemical/adhesive first.

The Gurnard · 11 September 2018, 13:25

A difficult one Fenlander as I have no experience with high pressure air floors.

However if it were mine.. as Max mentioned.. I would ram that small triangular space full of Sikaflex. The critics poo hoo'ed me repairing The Gurnard that way three years ago..Im sure you remember that thread.. anyhoo ..they were all wrong.. I have not looked at that repair since and it still hold pressure indefinitely. I have done hundreds of miles in the boat since and in some rough weather.

Perhaps a patch over the triangle mouth to ensure the Sikaflex stays in place once you test to see if it hold the air. Just a suggestion..but I know its not the professional way

Fenlander · 11 September 2018, 13:35

To be honest I think I agree for this tiny leak a "chemical" solution from a tube may be best and leave the Stanley knife in the toolbox. The rate of leakage is so small it would only lose 5% of pressure over a typical day out... I'd not have noticed until next year's summer holiday when inflated for two weeks had I not carried out the transom job.

I wonder if Sikaflex is the best (292i?)... happy to buy an expensive tube of "miracle repair" type stuff if it exists.

The other option I guess would be to use proper 2-part PVC adhesive and glue the flap down as its own minute patch??

office888 · 11 September 2018, 16:14

McNetts Aquaseal.

Put a dot of it on there.

Max... · 11 September 2018, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by office888

McNetts Aquaseal.

Put a dot of it on there.

That might be the same as 'Stormsure' we get in the UK? - I've got a few tubes in the fridge - useful stuff.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_o...msure&_sacat=0

pagick · 11 September 2018, 17:38

I too have no High pressure floor experience.
But treating it as just a small hole is the first option as the others say. But I'd try to get the glue inside as well. Perhaps inject some with a needle injector and then on the top. A actual patch may not be needed. The pressure inside would push the inside glue against the air leak instead of the pressure pushing it off.

Fenlander · 11 September 2018, 19:37

This guy seems confident of Stormsure…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_oh2EMZ3a0

Looking at instructions and videos it does seem Stormsure is the same as Aquaseal which isn't easily available in the UK.

jeffstevens763@g · 11 September 2018, 20:02

You could use aquasure used on dry suits a clear liquid self levels work into the hole and form a large area under the flap weight it down so the flap becomes the patch stuck down with the aquasure.

Or as said inject a small amount of the internal sealing liquid with the for upside down creating an internal patch I know that does work.

Orwell boy · 11 September 2018, 20:06

when i was a teenager i had a 66 mini cooper with a leaky radiator ,i used to put an egg white in it !! never failed

Fenlander · 11 September 2018, 21:57

The idea of injecting some sealer inside is very valid. I do have hypodermics but the hole is a pinprick smaller than the needle and I'd hate to increase it... I'll think on that while I wait for the Stormsure to arrive.

Jerry · 11 September 2018, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

The idea of injecting some sealer inside is very valid. I do have hypodermics but the hole is a pinprick smaller than the needle and I'd hate to increase it

I would try to melt some PVC with a soldering iron to fill the hole - looks like there's just enough access for that and this is also small enough for a bit of melted plastic.

If you choose to go down the route of filling with glues/fillers/etc, then I'd make sure that there's no contact between the repair and the flap that's glued on top. This is because if the repair stick to the flappy part, then the flappy part will be pulling the repair up. Knowing how things go, the adhesion to the flap will be better than adhesion around the pinprick hole.

Fenlander · 11 September 2018, 23:44

My photo makes it look easier than it is for access... so I'm not sure I could get the melted plastic anywhere near.

However I have gently probed with a fine hypodermic needle which has gone through the hole OK (as well as my finger but thankfully not the other side of the air floor). So I will hang the floor upside down from the garage joists and see if I can create a small inner plug of Stormsure (which I've just Ebay ordered) before I do the outside.

You are spot on with the flap needing keeping away from the repair until fully cured and I'll make sure to do that.

hymerbeliever · 12 September 2018, 05:40

Ummm tricky. You could try Polymarine Sealflex through the valve and letting it puddle and dry behind the hole but I’m not sure of the internal floor structure. Otherwise they do some stuff called Sureseal that goes on the outside but I’d be happier with something inside where the pressure is forcing it against rather than away from the hole. You could squirt something inside with a syringe and hyperdermic needle . Keep us posted.

hymerbeliever · 12 September 2018, 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by hymerbeliever

Ummm tricky. You could try Polymarine Sealflex through the valve and letting it puddle and dry behind the hole but I’m not sure of the internal floor structure. Otherwise they do some stuff called Sureseal that goes on the outside but I’d be happier with something inside where the pressure is forcing it against rather than away from the hole. You could squirt something inside with a syringe and hyperdermic needle . Keep us posted.

Missed pagev2 of the thread and your last post where you suggest exactly this!!!!

Fenlander · 12 September 2018, 07:59

Cheers, I've replied missing the last post many times in the past.

The floor will be fine for a mini puddle inside perhaps no more than a flattened pea size amount of sealer. I would intend to leave the floor inflated for at least a week to really cure it so there is no possibility the floor upper/lower surfaces would try and stick together.

jeffstevens763@g · 12 September 2018, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

The idea of injecting some sealer inside is very valid. I do have hypodermics but the hole is a pinprick smaller than the needle and I'd hate to increase it... I'll think on that while I wait for the Stormsure to arrive.

i agree with dont make the hole larger just use a syringe without needle and basically pressurise the hole if you hold it tight enough you should have minimal spill mrs F might be needed to help hold the floor flat, syringes can be bought from pet stores used to test water if needed you could use the stormsure in that way too

Fenlander · 12 September 2018, 09:12

>>>use a syringe without needle

That's a good idea Jeff as the glue/sealer will likely be better placed adj to the hole on the inside and form one part with that in the hole and on the outside.

No shortage of syringes here as we were horse owners for decades until 10yrs ago and at every vets visit for injections kept and washed out the used ones as they are so useful for DIY etc.

jeffstevens763@g · 12 September 2018, 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

>>>use a syringe without needle

That's a good idea Jeff as the glue/sealer will likely be better placed adj to the hole on the inside and form one part with that in the hole and on the outside.

No shortage of syringes here as we were horse owners for decades until 10yrs ago and at every vets visit for injections kept and washed out the used ones as they are so useful for DIY etc.

thats right the shape of a dumbbell as it were connected through the hole and if the fabric is weighted down and stuck will protect the repair and the area

69cmw · 12 September 2018, 22:37

Ron Hale Marine had some good stuff for fixing floors when I was looking a while ago