Cheaper/Easier Option?

[lizardland]

Hi All,

at the moment I have a RIB and I'm starting to ask myself if I am getting the most from it. Usually I'm out in it on my own, I'm not into fishing or waterskiing so it's just having a footer about on the water and mooching about the coast (Oban to Tobermory is about the biggest run I've done in it, otherwise it's just having a run about) when I'm back home in Scotland or razzing round the Mersey here so I'm starting to wonder if I really need a RIB.

The two big things are a. cost and b. hassle.

Cost: a 40HP isn't exactly the thistiest engine in the world but it's still not far off a litre a mile. Towing, I've got a 4x4 pickup, again it's not the thirstiest (I get about 36mpg with the boat on the back on the motorway) but it's still a lot more than a diesel estate is going to use. Running costs (both boat and pick-up) as well. Launching charges. Insurance. Trailer breakdown cover. Fitting the boat out, etc.

Hassle: launching on your own, I've got reasonably good at it but it's still a hassle (though I still find recovery causes a lot of swearing); towing; having the boat taking up yard space, etc.

What I'm wondering is if a SIB is a cheaper and easier option? Launching, transportation, storage, etc., looks considerably less hassle. What are they like for running costs? Am I fooling myself in thinking a motor suitable for a SIB will be cheaper to run? What sort of conditions can you take them out in? I'm guessing they are a lot more limited than a RIB?

Anyone any recommendations for a "my first SIB"? How much would you be looking at to spend?

Thanks for any help.

Cheers,

Stuart

[Max...]

Hi Stuart - I'm one of many who will appreciate many of the points you have made and who went from a RIB to a SIB for the very same reasons.

I would recommend spending a few evenings reading back through the SIB section for loads of topics but consensus is normally that:

3.2m (ish) is the smallest practical size SIB for typical 1+2 or 2+2 coastal use.

A 9.8 to 15 HP 2 stroke is the favoured engine - figure 16 - 18 kts as a typical WOT speed.

You will get wetter than in a RIB.

Being perfectly honest anything bigger than a flat sea is a PITA (literally) in a SIB (seas a RIB would laugh at are not much fun).

But for £1500 to £2000 you get a heck of a lot of fun that goes in the boot of a large car or on the roof (my favoured option), is a cinch to store and maintain, can be packed away in the corner of the garage, costs peanuts to run (£60 insurance), £10 fuel for a few hours at (mostly) WOT, can be launched by one or two people literally anywhere - any beach, lifted into a river or lake, etc, etc.

SIB's are not for everyone but for convenience, low capital outlay and real fun they are hard to beat. And if you run out of fuel like I (stupidly)did you drift onto the beach and carry it up the steps to the main road and pop it back on the roof of the Landy - not something so easy with a bigger boat...

Just search eBay for a week and you will see loads of suitable sub £2k rigs - buy a well known make/combo and try it out. You will be able to sell at no loss if you buy right.

And if you need more convincing check out wilk's video he posted of his 25 nm trip.

[bingosucks]

there`s a fair few boats around , i got my sib for a bit of fun and larking around ... i would suggest you go for a boat in excess of 3.2 and capable of taking upto 25hp...... you could start with an 8 or 10hp 2 stroke and see if your getting enough oomph for your buck 10`s are fairly cheap second hand so could be a good starting point.... i would like to point out i struggle my pants off carrying my outfit in the boot of my megane estate and actually prefer to tow it in a 3x4 camping trailer

[Peter_C]

I own a SIB and dream of a RIB. My issue is the money, and a suitable tow vehicle, read money. We use the boat for some cruising, and mostly scuba diving. It is a 4.2M Zodiac with a 40hp. The Pacific ocean requires a boat of at least this size for safety. Highly doubt the two stoke motor gets good mileage, but does have decent power. Somehow it would be nice if it would magically change into a smokeless four stroke. My tow vehicle is a Prius which gets right around 30mpg (Miles per gallon, of gas) towing with dive gear loaded in the vehicle. I always figured that was about the best any loaded tow vehicle would get, but I have been proven wrong.

Launching solo I do not find an issue, at most boat ramps, but my boat is on a pretty nice trailer. Having to blowup a boat and install motor, fuel tank, battery, etc., would not be simple. I would probably venture to say a RIB and SIB are about equal to launch and recover at the average boat ramp.

Wanna trade boats?

[bingosucks]

it takes me about 30mins to inflate and set up ..a must are rib wheels i managed to get a decent set that can fold up and be left on the boat this allows me to hand roll it down slipways much to the annoyance of rib owners who have cumbersome trailers, it also means i can launch fom a beach. cost wise £8 sorted my 9.8 for the day... having said all this i would love a bigger boat

[Downhilldai]

SIBs have their place but are no replacement for an SR4

You could reduce costs by using a different tow vehicle. An SR4 will only weigh around half a ton fully rigged, so you could tow it with a small hatchback.

If you're having trouble launching & recovering, then maybe your technique or trailer set-up needs looking at.

I reckon you'll regret swapping it for a SIB. If funds allow, you could always buy a SIB and try running both before deciding which you prefer.

BTW 1 litre/mile sounds thirsty. You could always go for a 4-stroke, but initial outlay will be relatively high.

[Max...]

Forgot to add one thing - I disagree with the other posters above about opting for a *big* SIB - IMHO once you go above 3.5m or so a SIB becomes much less attractive than a RIB which is so much more capable in typical seas (especially your SR with a deep V - the 'V' on a SIB is non existant - SIB's do not cut through the water - they skate over it). The only SIB that comes near a deep V RIB is the Bombard 380 but if you are going for something that size a bigger engine is needed.

A 3.2m to 3.5m SIB is still easily packed away and can be lifted easily by two people or pulled on transom wheels by one. It also requires a relatively small 10 - 15 HP engine. Anything bigger cannot be lifted or carried over a beach - in that scenario you are better off with a trailer and a RIB.

[mark_j]

I am fortunate enough to have both at the moment, the SIB (Aerotec 380) is great fun to use from a beach and the kids love it because they are not stuck on the RIB all day, as others have said you do get wet and anything other than a ripple. The RIB will go anywhere in most seas and gives added comfort and range, launching RIB takes same time as inflating SIB so no time advantage either way, in summary SIB cheap, good fun, but no substitute for the RIB.

[mark_j]

Originally Posted by Max...

Bombard 380 but if you are going for something that size a bigger engine is needed.

Disagree, the 380 is fine with a 15hp

[9D280]

Originally Posted by lizardland

Oban to Tobermory

I have a wee handheld garmin with two sets of waypoints up every loch round there - one up each shore. Reason? - the waypoint File is for use with a 3.5m sib, and there are times that you just don't want to go up the middle! To be honest there's times we just stay ashore & open another beer.....

The flip side to all your "bad things about the rib" is that you'll end up sat there thinking "I could have gone out if I had the RIB...."

Based on my open box trailer & sailing dingy, a "jam pot" cover will improve the aerodynamics of the rib while towing quite remarkably. The cover is worth about 3-4mpg on a 5'x 5'5" box trailer that tucks in behind the car.....

Other thing to think about - will you have room in the car for it, 'coz as soon as you run out of boot space and put a roof rack on, it's welcome back to square 1 with regards to towing fuel economy...... Also it's an SR4. Easily towable by a mid sized saloon. Mine put my Focus diesel from 50 odd MPG down to about 47ish.

[Fenlander]

>>>starting to wonder if I really need a RIB.

That's what it comes down to Stuart... do you "need" a RIB. Many folks (and this forum isn't representative because loads of people do some serious stuff with their RIBs) don't need a RIB but just fancy one. However if your trips and the weather you go out in need a RIB then a SIB just won't cut it. You probably won't die in a SIB but you will end up at minimum speed, soaking wet and bounced about.

But if (like me) you are having a period where you don't want to trail a boat, don't want to store one on a trailer and family/finances dictate modest expenditure then a 3.2-3.8m SIB with 10-15hp gets you on the water for some great value fun/trips.

In this I'm assuming you won't be trailering the SIB? TBH if you were thinking of using a SIB on a trailer then I'd keep the RIB.

If you are considering the daily inflate/deflate with a SIB make sure you have the attitude to put up with it. I treat this 30 min at each end of the trip as part of the trip and almost enjoy it as part of the experience... others find it a chore.

If you do decide to get a SIB in another month or two the prices will be down to winter bargains and £1500-£2000 should get something in very good condition, perhaps a 1-4yr old boat with 4-10yr old 2-stroke in mint condition, transom wheels and other kit.

Here is an example of an outfit to consider...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/zodiac-3-4...23048398245935

I'd prefer a 2-stroke outboard but it does come with about £300 of extras in the launch wheels, seat & bow bags plus extra seat.

At the lower end of the budget this was a bargain at £1000... the outboard alone could have made most of that in the usual early summer buying frenzy.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/11ft-Infla...item20bd7ac6cc

[Poly]

As others have said you don't need a 4x4 to tow a SR4.

I think if the hassle of launch and recovering a RIB is a pain then a SIB is going to be at least as bad.

SR4 is by many accounts the best 4m boat around, and no SIB is going to match it. You'll have fun in it - and you could do Oban - Tobermory on a nice day, but your options will be a bit more limited.

Other than storage I don't see the running costs being much different?

[Max...]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I think if the hassle of launch and recovering a RIB is a pain then a SIB is going to be at least as bad.


Other than storage I don't see the running costs being much different?

Launching probably depends where you are though - round here the only launch place within 50 miles or so into the sea with a RIB is one slipway into a very tricky fast channel available 2 hours or so either side of high tide. With a SIB we can drop in the river or off the beach any time of day when the weather or opportunity arises. And it doesn't cost £15 a time! The freedom of being able to do this is much more important though than the money saved.

Obviously all boats cost something to run but for a small SIB insurance is £60 vs say £160, fuel for a 10hp must be a fraction of that for a 40hp +. Anyone can service a simple 2 stroke at home compared to say a bigger 4 stroke (not sure what the OP is using?). That's about it though - no trailer costs, slipway costs, storage costs or similar and of course much less capital tied up in the thing...

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Max...

Obviously all boats cost something to run but for a small SIB insurance is £60 vs say £160, fuel for a 10hp must be a fraction of that for a 40hp +. Anyone can service a simple 2 stroke at home compared to say a bigger 4 stroke (not sure what the OP is using?). That's about it though - no trailer costs, slipway costs, storage costs or similar and of course much less capital tied up in the thing...

Max - I've seen a SR recovered up a river bank - it wasn't pretty but it is an option. However slipways don't seem to be the OP's main concern. So I assume it is getting the boat on the trailer, lighting boards, strapping down, moving loose clutter etc, general faff, there are still going to be similar headaches with a SIB - possibly more.

I'm not convinced the price differences are that big? My insurance is just under £100 not £160. A 10 HP working quite hard will maybe get you 18knots ish and burn 3-4L an hour. A 40HP at the same speed won't be using much more. A 40 HP can probably do double that speed if he wants to (and probably still burning less than 1/2 a L per mile). There's nothing complicated about servicing a 40HP even if it is a 4stroke.

I can only remember having to pay once to use a slip this year (it was a donation) and I'd have paid to use a sib too.

Trailer servicing is more of a hassle than a cost at this scale, and for the cost of a decent set of transom wheels you can get several replacement bearings (mine are 5 years old and going strong). Plenty of SIB owners revert to trailers (either boat ones or box ones) in the end which means that that "saving" is not necessarily cast in stone...

The cost of buying and owning a (used but respectable) SR4 are not dissimilar to a (used but respectable) big sib.

I've nothing against SIBs (in many ways my boat is a big hard sib!) but the grass is always greener etc! I can see the pro's con's clearly between a 3.2m sib and a 6m rib, and depending on use either one could be the winner. At the 4m length its not so clear cut.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Max...

And if you need more convincing check out wilk's video he posted of his 25 nm trip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PebA2Cu07cI

FWIW, I had to wait all season to get a day calm enough to do that.

SIBs are mental fun, but they're not able to handle rough water with any kind of comfort. I'd hang on to the SR4.

[lizardland]

Cheers for the answers, lots of good info. My normal launch site is the beach at New Brighton, it's a very shallow slope so getting the SR back on the trailer single handed can be a hassle particularly with the hull flooded. It can get very exposed too. It's also something like 80 quid a year for a permit as well. As far as I know most of the slips round here are paid. A 4wd isnt necessary I know, I had the pickup before the boat, it's just another cost and I'm interested in how small a car I can go.

Lots to think about but it looks like a SIB setup wouldnt be far off what I'd get for my SR4 so kind of defeats the purpose. Same for running costs by the sound if it. I guess it comes down to convenience. I'm loathe to get rid of it though if there isnt much of money in it and I'd just be limiting what I could do.

I take it winter would be a daft time to be selling anyway?

Thanks for all the info, really interesting to read.

[Poly]

There might be things you can do to assist the recovery. I've been meaning to add guide poles to the back of my trailer for a while, and I was recently launched and recovered by someone using a steel extension bar and that made the whole exercise trivial.

You can probably pull the SR with a car that is too small to fit a SIB! I pulled my similar sized boat with a mazda 323 with 1.3 petrol L engine quite happily. I've seen smaller cars do it too. To get even a small sib in there you would need the back seats down, and my 20HP engine was a 2 man lift in out.

[C-NUMB]

Originally Posted by Polwart

As others have said you don't need a 4x4 to tow a SR4.

I think if the hassle of launch and recovering a RIB is a pain then a SIB is going to be at least as bad.

+1 for that. I much rather launch and recover my SR 5.4r single handed on a trailer than setting up a SIB with outboard of any size. I like SIB's, there is something magic about them (Wilks video was great by the way )but still for regular use i rather use a boat on trailer.

[donald463]

60hp Yam 4 stroke on 4.9m Zodiac gives 10-12mpg at full chat and 15-18mpg cruising with 2 up.
Tow car diesel Peugeot 407 gives 45+mpg towing.
Less than £100 insurance.
Loads of FREE slips around here.
Can launch single handed in 10 mins and recover in 20.
Happier in sea than with a SIB
Thought this was economical compared with many posters on this site.

[Max...]

Where are all these free slipways guys?? All the slips I have ever come across are mostly £15 - £25!!