Engine start difficulty

CJS · 04 September 2009, 14:50

I purchased my Honda 20 HP brand new - just coming up for first service at the end of this month.

The first few times it started practically on first or second pull from cold. The last couple of times it seems to have become more stubborn - from cold - and the last time I spent at least 10 or 15 minutes trying to get it started.

Someone with an all powerful RIB at the launch site took a look for me and managed to get it going.

We checked the plug and it was secure the gap is correct/ fuel is coming through the line/ the lanyard was connected/ it was in neutral/ choke was out/ Oil level is normal and when engine starts the green light comes on - all the natural things to check.

Perhaps it is the way I am pulling the cord.....the chap who sold me the outboard recommended to pull the cord until resistance then release and pull through....whereas the RIB owner gently pulled the cord to resitance then pulled straight through.

I was wondering that once everything is coupled and I have pumped the fuel through the line to engine that maybe I should - without the choke engaged pull through a couple of times first?

Any thoughts?

jyasaki · 04 September 2009, 16:12

Manual choke, or auto?

If manual, set it closed (cold start position), pull a couple of times, then open it up again. [You may need to adjust the open position to partially open - experiment and find out what works for you.] My Honda 40 didn't like cold starts, and this was the procedure that caused the least grief (was electric start, though.)

jky

CJS · 04 September 2009, 16:39

Hi Jyasaki

Its a manual choke - yes that is what I thought, perhaps it requires a couple of light pre primer pulls first without the choke engaged.

Can one easily add an electric start to a manual engine like mine - what would I require to do this?

9D280 · 04 September 2009, 16:46

Each engine will have it's own quirky method of starting. My Evenrude 2 Hp needs to run with the choke half out for about 4 or 5 mins otherwise it just dies when you throttle back. Once it has warmed up, it only needs a half hearted pull with no choke to get it going. The merc on the other hand will just sit there and refuse to go if I open the throttle on a cold start - it will start on choke alone at min throttle. Then when it;s warmed up, it's the other way round! (no choke but needs the fast idle)

As Jyaski says, have a play with it and after a bit of frustration you'll find something that will work. It's probably best to start on the "no choke" end of the scale, Otherwise you'll just flood it. If you see fuel in the water when you are experimenting, push the choke in, open the throttle all the way & heave the cord until it coughs. Keep your hand on the throttle 'coz once it's cleared if you're at wide open throttle.....

I do agree wth the "pull gently until resistance is felt" theory. Mostly because if the cord snaps when you are expecting some resistance the resuults at best will be embarrassing!

It's not something obvious like you forgot the deadman / opened the tank vent? (we've all done it.....)

9D280 · 04 September 2009, 16:50

Quote:

Can one easily add an electric start to a manual engine like mine - what would I require to do this?

Usually not too difficult - you'll need a starter motor, battery, choke coil, some extra wiring and something to work them with. Not sure if you're on tiller or remote control, but if you are on tiller you'll need to fgure out a way of mounting the starter & choke switches. Suzuki used to do the DT25/30 with the switch in a recess on the front of the case.

CJS · 04 September 2009, 17:16

"It's not something obvious like you forgot the deadman / opened the tank vent? (we've all done it.....)"

At first I wondered what the hell a "deadman" was LOL - then I googled it and realized you were talking about the Lanyard.

Yes the deadman was on and the tank vent was closed - although I have a confession the second time I started this engine I left the deadman/ lanyard off but fortunately realized when it wasn't starting.

I think you are right it really is just a matter that these outboards start differently due to variations. I suppose I have just got used to the idea of getting into a car, turn the ignition and hey presto.

This is why I went for a new outboard because the thought of being "out there" trying to get the damned thing started wasn't an appealing concept!

BTW Thanks for the tips on the electric start I think I will be looking more closely into this.

m chappelow · 04 September 2009, 17:56

i too recently started having starting problems with a 20 hours use engine, on stopping to fish about 2miles from shore it wouldent start ,, both plugs had a strong spark , gaps ok. but one plug was a bit sooty ,changed to the spare set of plugs and engine started staight away and ran fine , back home on closer inspection of the sooty plug ,the ceramic tip on the electrode could be slid up and down slightly,so it would spark but not in the right place ,,,the replacement plugs even though they are of the same make and number the new ones seem a bit better quality than the ones that came with the new engine ,,,just made me wonder if some factorys put a cheaper lower quality plug in ,,,,,lol,, some of my other outboards never had a plug change in 5 / 6 years and i had no problems ,,

Cypman · 04 September 2009, 18:14

Is your petrol very old? This can often be a problem, especially with hi-tech modern 4-strokes.

m chappelow · 04 September 2009, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cypman

Is your petrol very old? This can often be a problem, especially with hi-tech modern 4-strokes.

yes i agree with that ,even though i fill up with fresh petrol every time, what i have noticed is that if there is any fuel left in the fuel pipe/bulb it will have been there since i last used the engine ,perhaps a few weeks ,and that can cause starting problems with the residue left in the pipe ,,,what i do now is push a plastic golf tee in the end and let it drain out so it gets fresh petrol straight away into the carb if been stood a while ,

DGR · 04 September 2009, 20:05

Does the Golf T method empty the carb bowl?

That's where I had problems with mine - old fuel goes gunky and gets into the jets......

m chappelow · 04 September 2009, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGR

Does the Golf T method empty the carb bowl?

That's where I had problems with mine - old fuel goes gunky and gets into the jets......

no,,,you will have to slacken the carb bowl drain screw for that,, and if you drain it regular its best to use a socket to fit the plug as its only brass and using a screw driver wears the slot out quick ,,,,,,using the golf tee just drains the tank hose,

Locozodiac · 04 September 2009, 21:58

Some interesting ways to start 2 strokes cold engines according to temperature, might try any to see if it works for you. 1-2 works fine for me all the time.

Happy Sibbing

CJS · 05 September 2009, 08:44

The fuel I use was purchased from my local petrol station (having a high turn over), any left overs are in the tank for no more than a couple of weeks at most.

I only purchase from petrol stations because my outboard dealer recommended never to purchase fuel from boat mariners as it is frequently old or contaminated with water.

The guy with the RIB who helped me out also recommended that at the end of each boating day that I should disconnect the fuel line from the fuel tank and let the engine run until it cuts out. I have only just started doing that so not sure if it helps or not yet.

I am not sure whether one can get additives to mix with the fuel or whether that is worth it?

Poly · 05 September 2009, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJS

The guy with the RIB who helped me out also recommended that at the end of each boating day that I should disconnect the fuel line from the fuel tank and let the engine run until it cuts out. I have only just started doing that so not sure if it helps or not yet.

The idea of this is it leaves the carbs empty so you are getting fresh fuel into them next time - it used to be common practice when people used pre-mixed 2 stroke fuel which tended to gum up and block stuff if left for too long. I did hear someone once claim it was bad for your engine though as it would be running "lean" and had the potential to pit the cylinder head - not sure if there was any substance to that?

lightning · 05 September 2009, 11:27

Honda engines are one of the best, there must be something not right if it's taking ages to start. I've got a Mariner 6hp and if I don't run the engine dry with the fuel line disconnected it takes a few pulls to get it going next time. Also the manual advises not to pull the starter cord more than twice with the choke on.

When you said tank vent closed, I assume you meant open, (that is allowing air in). If the vent is closed the engine won't be able to draw fuel from the tank.

Locozodiac · 05 September 2009, 14:58

Other issues for quick starts are plugs age, whether new, old, if cleaned periodically and regapped, correct gas/oil mix ratios, correct engine prime and a strog pul once the ratchet engages on the fly wheel. Other factors, fresh good quality gasoline, clean gas filters & passages and well adjusted carb.

Happy Sibbing

CJS · 05 September 2009, 17:11

Went out today onto Southampton water today - three soft pulls initially then opened the manual choke - started on second attempt. Pleased with the result.

1ThOFA87 · 05 September 2009, 21:19

WOW this thread has been the most useful discussion I've heard or read in the 4 years since purchasing my SIB. I'd purchased a >20 year old engine and have struggled to get it started until this summer when I began by pulling the choke, pulling the cord a couple of times then pushing the choke back in and starting with 1 or two more pulls. I'd thought something was wrong with it but what you guys are explaining is exactly what had finally been working for me. SPLENDID!!!

MikeP · 07 September 2009, 13:47

I've done a quick search but nothing leapt out at me, so here's my question in this vein :-

What's the best procedure if you should flood the engine and any tell-tale symptoms (apart from non-starting !) to look for.

Whilst attempting to get Mrs MikeP to restart the outboard a couple of weeks back, she couldn't get sufficient elbow grease going, got a bit frustrated, and after about 10 or so pulls I cautioned that maybe the engine was flooded and we should leave it for a bit.

We left it for a bit, changed places, and I got it started after a couple of pulls (with no choke out); Mrs MikeP wasn't best chuffed and has been despondent ever since.

9D280 · 07 September 2009, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

I did hear someone once claim it was bad for your engine though as it would be running "lean" and had the potential to pit the cylinder head - not sure if there was any substance to that?

Personally I'd take that with a pinch of salt - otherwise diesels wouldn't last 10 minutes - they are fundamentally lean burn engines!

As for fuel going off in 2 weeks I can taste salt again - how man businessmen would be stuffed when they got back to their car that had just sat for 2 weeks in the airport long stay?