excel or honwave

[johnyp]

Hi contemplating a honwave or excel between 3.65 and 4.m 15 to 20 hp
what are you opinions please
regards
johnyp

[Fenlander]

If you are looking at an alloy floor version I'd say go with best deal, most local dealer, colour, grab handle positioning or other features... or just whichever you fancy because quality and resale value are about the same and they will perform about the same.

If you are looking at an air floor version they are quite different so that might need more thinking.

[Pikey Dave]

Can’t comment on the Honwave as I’ve no experience of the brand, apart from the quality issues they had a couple of years back. Worth keeping in mind if you end up buying second hand or old stock.
We bought an Excel Volaire after seeing them at the boat show. Very impressed with the value for money & service from Terry at Excel. We got some good time on her last year considering the situation. I’d buy another.

[johnyp]

thanks guys

[jeffstevens763@g]

ive had both excel for me

[Limecc]

I had no problem with Excel's quality, but had problems with the sausage keel deforming when heavily loaded causing an air bubble to erupt at the stern causing a prop ventilation cycle. Never managed to eliminate it despite much trying. It is now a discontinued model but am still suspicious of low pressure sausage keels.

I would recommend them in smaller sizes, otherwise would try a Honwave with V floor or better still an F-rib. Elling SIB looks nice but maybe on the small side for you. Have no idea about the keel on that.

[Fenlander]

>>>Have no idea about the keel on that.

Ha ha for me it was worth getting one just to establish how they really go in the variety of conditions we go out in. Cant wait to get it and head out into our test area chop.

[jeffstevens763@g]

keel has never been an issue for me on my 435 but you do have to check the valve tightness for some reason they can need nipping up with the spanner provided

[Steve509926]

Hi johnyp, I've got an Excel Volante SD360 and a 15hp EFI Merc. Only got it last July, but it has been a good combination for what I want. I only suffered the "Limecc sausage keel, air bubble" problem once, redistributed the weight in the SIB and it never happened again.
From your size choice I'm presuming you are thinking of an ally floor, if that's the case then I would agree with Fenlander in #2, if your contemplating an airdeck then I think if you gave a few more details about how you will use, store and transport it you will get some extra "advice"

[Limecc]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

Hi johnyp, I've got an Excel Volante SD360 and a 15hp EFI Merc. I only suffered the "Limecc sausage keel, air bubble" problem once, redistributed the weight in the SIB and it never happened again.

Bigger you go the greater the chance. I'm not too heavy myself but get a 390 four-up with two heavyweights sitting on the tubes either side of the bow dodger with a 20hp and you are asking for it.

It had a drop stitch floor, why not employ the same tech for the sausage and have a high pressure keel?

We upgraded our Sevylor canoe (with bladders) to a drop stitch canoe and it was a revelation. One you could almost fold in half but no chance with the other. Felt much more like a rigid kayak.

[Fenlander]

>>> why not employ the same tech for the sausage and have a high pressure keel?

Zodiac did this with the Fastroller with only limited improvement. It's the flat HP air floor that is the start of the problem and unresolvable 100% without a significant degree of "V"... think Aerotec.

[Limecc]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

..think Aerotec.

or by extension, Honwave

Good post btw thanks.

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by Limecc

I had no problem with Excel's quality, but had problems with the sausage keel deforming when heavily loaded causing an air bubble to erupt at the stern causing a prop ventilation cycle. Never managed to eliminate it despite much trying. It is now a discontinued model but am still suspicious of low pressure sausage keels.

I think the situation has probably improved since you had your Excel.

I don't know what the keel pressure was with the model you had, but the keel on the SD360 is now at 0.4 bar (5.8psi). However, I think the biggest factor helping the "airdeck air bubble" has to be the keel boards which fit between the keel and the airdeck. As an experiment last year, I didn't fit the keel boards to see what would happen. With one up in the SIB I didn't notice any difference, with 3 in the SIB you could feel a wave of air travelling under the airdeck. I then re-fitted the keel board and did the same journey 3 up and there was no movement under the airdeck.

[Fenlander]

>>>Posted by Fenlander... ...think Aerotec.

>>>or by extension, Honwave

Sadly not quite... sadly as had Honwave produced an Aerotec clone for £1300 or so when the Areotec was twice the price they would have been an amazing alternative.

Not quite so as there were loads of happy T38 owners but also many who were annoyed by the floor misbehaving leading to prop ventilation at times.

It's obvious to see why if you look at the cobbled together image below of the Honwave bow and transom compared to the whole Aerotec floor.

The Aerotec has a true sharp V that continues from bow to transom yet the honwave has a V starting quite modest at the bow to very little midpoint and virtually flat at the transom.... little different profile to an alloy floor model with LP sausage keel.

So it's no wonder the Honwave is unable to demonstrate true theory of the strength of a V because it's quite shallow.

[Limecc]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

I think the situation has probably improved since you had your Excel.

I don't know what the keel pressure was with the model you had, but the keel on the SD360 is now at 0.4 bar (5.8psi). However, I think the biggest factor helping the "airdeck air bubble" has to be the keel boards which fit between the keel and the airdeck. As an experiment last year, I didn't fit the keel boards to see what would happen. With one up in the SIB I didn't notice any difference, with 3 in the SIB you could feel a wave of air travelling under the airdeck. I then re-fitted the keel board and did the same journey 3 up and there was no movement under the airdeck.

Mine had two keel boards and I think that was the same pressure. 2017 Volante model.

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by Limecc

Mine had two keel boards and I think that was the same pressure. 2017 Volante model.

Must have been your two heavyweights

[Limecc]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

Must have been your two heavyweights

Ssh..

[pumpkinking]

If I remember my own market research correctly this is why the advice is to go for the Excel Volaire over the Excel Volante at 3.9m and above. Volaire doesn’t have the sausage keel but still has a flat air floor - priority for some, myself included.

Not qualified to talk much more than that as I went for a Volante 330 and 6hp! Air bubbles unlikely to affect me for my usage!

Thinking about it though, I haven’t seen any other sib with the Excel Volaire floor chamber design... quite an innovation?

Pikey Dave - you’re thrilled with it, right?

[johnyp]

Thanks guys
Prob no more then 2 on the boat approx 35 stone plus tackle so would think a 20hp on approx 3.80 used on sea prefer ally floor but heavy if i went on my own.
might at times be 4 but not all fishing just me and my family

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by pumpkinking

If I remember my own market research correctly this is why the advice is to go for the Excel Volaire over the Excel Volante at 3.9m and above. Volaire doesn’t have the sausage keel but still has a flat air floor - priority for some, myself included.

Not qualified to talk much more than that as I went for a Volante 330 and 6hp! Air bubbles unlikely to affect me for my usage!

Thinking about it though, I haven’t seen any other sib with the Excel Volaire floor chamber design... quite an innovation?

Pikey Dave - you’re thrilled with it, right?

So far so good[emoji106]