First time buyer - SIB advice please

citygent111 · 07 June 2021, 14:45

Hi all,

Bit of background - I've been a kayaker for years, and we bought a 2 seater sit-on for her and my lad (12yrs old) during lockdown 1.0 - we've just returned from a week in Devon and they're both hooked.

Young lad wanted a jetski but Mrs won't go on one, so that's out. We also have a dog who apparently loves sitting on a kayak watching the world go by, so while we were pottering around on the River Dart, we passed a lovely looking Excel Volaire 430. "That's a nice boat" she says...... my wicked smile appeared!

Here's the thing - we live slap bang in the middle of Yorkshire so apart from the Leeds/Liverpool canal, there's not much going on which means we'd be travelling - but we tow a caravan so a trailered boar isn't an option.

I've been reading so much about SIB's and I think that's the best/only option for us.

I drive a VW Toureg, so have a decent sized boot which I think I could get the "boat in a bag" in, along with an outboard on it's side.

Anything else should be able to go in the roofbox (assuming the kayak isn't coming with us).

I really did like the look of the Excel Volaire and wondered if you guys thought it would be a good boat for first timers? 2 adults, a 12 year old and a dog.

Really would like some suggestions in terms of engines though - I know nothing about outboards! Would like enough power to really get up some speed to keep the lad happy.

Would be used up in the Lake District (at appropriate speeds of course) but also for heading up & down the beaches of North Yorkshire and anywhere else we end up on our travels. Would also be nice if I could pull a ringo but not an essential.

Finally, an idea of cost for the boat and engine would really help - I was thinking (hoping) £2500-£3000 would be enough?

Many thanks in advance.

Steve509926 · 07 June 2021, 16:32

Hi and welcome.

The Excel Volaire 430 is a very nice SIB, but it is also very BIG and very heavy at 75kg. Personally I don't think 2 adults would manage it. It may just fit into your Toureg with an OB, but I doubt you'd fit anything else in.

I've got an Excel SD360 and at 58kg it is the maximum weight myself and my wife can deal with, any heavier and we would be doing ourselves some serious injuries.

You also need to consider how you will use the SIB. Will you go out on your own every now and then, or just you and your lad? If that's the case, I don't think you would be able to manage it, it's just to big and heavy.

I would be looking at something lighter and smaller, between 3.5 - 3.9 mtrs and below 60kg.
Personally I wouldn't want to go any smaller than 3.5 as I think with 3 and dog it would be a bit tight.

As for OB, it depends on what SIB you buy as to the max size of OB you can fit, but if you are looking to pull a ringo a minimum of 15hp but better with a 20hp.

If you are thinking of new and assuming you can find anything (demand far exceeds supply) you will be heading towards the £4k figure by the time you have bought everything.

Pikey Dave · 07 June 2021, 16:46

Hello & welcome to Ribnet. I would echo what Steve says above re. Weight of the Volaire. We have a 390 & it’s just about manageable by 2 fit adults. It’s a very tough but substantial bit of kit. We love ours, but I wouldn’t want to go any bigger. It’s comfortable with 3 adults & day out kit. You’d need a 20hp on it though or it would struggle on to the plane. Bearing in mind that most modern 4 strokes share the same weight/block from 9.9hp to 20hp, then you won’t gain any weight advantage by going smaller.
We’re in Barnsley & use Whitby as our “local” launch. At least being in the centre of the country, you might not be close to anywhere, but your options are varied. You’re not stuck to the same old cruising ground.

TmMorris · 07 June 2021, 16:54

To add to what Steve has said, I've just bought the 390 version of his boat. I need to be able to set it up on my own and I would say that it's at the absolute maximum of what I can manage in terms of lifting and setting up.

If I were buying a new engine I would definitely go for a 20hp EFI. But I compromised with a 15hp 2 stroke for two reasons, considerably lighter and I'm very comfortable fixing a 2 stroke while bobbing about in front of a Red Funnel Ferry.

I also pushed the size so that friends could join us pottering down the Thames.

All in, I think people with 3.5m SIBs and 20hp outboards are probably sitting in the sweetest spot. Certainly not too small for a family, more manageable for the bloke should he make the fatal error of parking near an antique shop and losing his labour and with enough power to keep a teenager on the end of a rope, at a safe distance from civilised society.

citygent111 · 08 June 2021, 12:24

Thanks for the replies guys, appreciate your thoughts!

Some really good points, especially about the weight. Maybe a 3.6 would be better, but I'll see if we can look at a 3.9 - with a 20hp in case our eldest comes with us at some point, he's a big lad!

Since I posted my question I did a lot more searching on the forum and found Steve's excellent write up of the SD360 - thanks for doing that Steve, as a complete beginner it was really helpful and very informative!

OK - so Excel sound good, I've got the size and engine ticked off.....now what! Shopping time I think! Thanks again all :-)

Pikey Dave · 08 June 2021, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by citygent111

Thanks for the replies guys, appreciate your thoughts!

Some really good points, especially about the weight. Maybe a 3.6 would be better, but I'll see if we can look at a 3.9 - with a 20hp in case our eldest comes with us at some point, he's a big lad!

Since I posted my question I did a lot more searching on the forum and found Steve's excellent write up of the SD360 - thanks for doing that Steve, as a complete beginner it was really helpful and very informative!

OK - so Excel sound good, I've got the size and engine ticked off.....now what! Shopping time I think! Thanks again all :-)

If you go down the Excel route, be sure to mention Ribnet to Terry.

Steve509926 · 08 June 2021, 14:05

Thanks for the compliment.

If you do go for a 390, don't forget there are 2 different SIBs. The SD390 which is the bigger sibling to my SIB and the Volaire 390 which PD has

Limecc · 08 June 2021, 14:08

Be sure to check out post#13 here:
New member - which boat? Elling vs Honwave vs F-RIB
Elling would be my recommendation but seeing as they are out of stock, you might also consider a Honwave. Good summary by Chipko.
Also this:
Opinions please Excel/Honwave

citygent111 · 08 June 2021, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve509926

Thanks for the compliment.

If you do go for a 390, don't forget there are 2 different SIBs. The SD390 which is the bigger sibling to my SIB and the Volaire 390 which PD has

No worries! And yes, thanks for pointing that out - is there much difference? I can only see a 1kg difference in the packed weight, so is it inside width which the volaire has an extra 4cm?

I can see the Volaire takes a bigger/heavier engine too - hmm...decisions decisions!

Thanks Limecc - I'll take a look at those posts now...

Pikey Dave · 08 June 2021, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by citygent111

No worries! And yes, thanks for pointing that out - is there much difference? I can only see a 1kg difference in the packed weight, so is it inside width which the volaire has an extra 4cm?

I can see the Volaire takes a bigger/heavier engine too - hmm...decisions decisions!

Thanks Limecc - I'll take a look at those posts now...

Bear in mind that the Volaire is one lump when packed, the floor is integral to the tubes, so you can’t break down the weight into smaller portions.

Steve509926 · 08 June 2021, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by citygent111

No worries! And yes, thanks for pointing that out - is there much difference? I can only see a 1kg difference in the packed weight, so is it inside width which the volaire has an extra 4cm?

I can see the Volaire takes a bigger/heavier engine too - hmm...decisions decisions!

Thanks Limecc - I'll take a look at those posts now...

This is my take on it, other will have a different opinion.

When I was buying my SIB I wanted a flat floor (see post which Limecc has pointed out) so that ruled out the Honwave T38. But in all other areas the T38, especially the new one, appears to be a great SIB.
The SD390 and the Volaire 390 are both just too heavy for me, so I opted for the SD360. However, if Excel produced a Volaire 360 that's what I would have chosen, even though as PD pointed out you can't break it down into "lighter" lumps!

Limecc · 08 June 2021, 16:18

Don't be tempted to get a bigger heavier SIB just for the occasional time you will have your strong lad with you.
That means 90% of the time you'll be struggling risking injury and have the wrong boat. Besides being heavy, boat bag and engine are not very friendly shapes to grapple. Why the Excel bag has long handles is beyond me, it can't be carried like a holdall.

Lighter/easier means after the newness has worn off you will use the boat more because it's less effort to get out. You're always going to be weather/sea condition dependent anyway. A bonus is saving money on both purchase prices. A smaller boat won't need the same hp.

Don't forget to factor in the cost of safety gear, ancilliaries etc. Quickly adds up.

Steve509926 · 08 June 2021, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limecc

Why the Excel bag has long handles is beyond me, it can't be carried like a holdall.

We get it! We know! You don't like Excel or Terry.

Limecc · 08 June 2021, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve509926

We get it! We know! You don't like Excel or Terry.

Incorrect! Terry is a great guy with high integrity. I liked the Excel build quality. I'd feel the same about a heavy T40 Honwave. I'm still scarred by my heavy SIB experience/disaster, would go the Fenlander route now.

Citigent needs to set correct expectations, that's why he came here for advice. However I did that and stupid me still made the wrong choice

TmMorris · 08 June 2021, 16:43

Yup. I can carry the SD390 in its bag by lifting it behind me and walking forward but I don't intend to ever do that outside of an emergency.

The floor and all the other parts are in a sports hold-all that can also be carried short distances.

I'll only be using the boat where I can park, set the boat up by the car and then trundle it on the transom wheels to a slipway. If this wasn't going to be the case then I would have bought a smaller boat from a lighter manufacturer.

Either of the outboards I have are able to be carried, whether the 4 or the 15. A modern 20 would be manageable for the way I will be using the boat.

I would stress that I think my set up is at the absolute limit of what one person can manhandle in a sanitary environment and not have regrets.

I think it tends to be prudent to have a setup that isn't reliant on another person and where that extra person is a luxury not a necessity.

Something else to consider is that my set up will fit in the boot of either estate cars if the rear seats are down but that wouldn't be plausible if I had rear passengers. Hence why I've bought a tow hitch carrier for the boat so that only one rear seat need be folded.

When you look at Fenlander's boat it clearly packs up much smaller as well as being lighter and would appear to be much easier to pack into a boot and still have use of the rear seats.

Steve509926 · 08 June 2021, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limecc

would go the Fenlander route now.

My apologies, but that's the way you are coming across.

I too will probably go the Elling route or maybe even the Honwave T38, when I can't handle the heavier SD360. But it sounds to me like Citygent is considerably younger and maybe fitter than I, so he has the luxury of being able to manage a heavier SIB.

Limecc · 08 June 2021, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve509926

I too will probably go the Elling

You know that Elling's probably worth waiting for. But then I've already got a kayak and another boat to enjoy..

I count myself very fortunate never to have pulled my back and I never misplaced my footing and dropped the engine. I wonder what the damage would be? Someone on here must have done it already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve509926

he has the luxury of being able to manage a heavier SIB.

Are you sure?

rik_elliott · 08 June 2021, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limecc

Don't be tempted to get a bigger heavier SIB just for the occasional time you will have your strong lad with you.
That means 90% of the time you'll be struggling risking injury and have the wrong boat.

This is good advice. I have had lots of sibs and they are all compromises of a sort. At the moment we have a 4m air deck honwave. It's really great and very beamy but when deflated it is a real lardy lump to move around. I went with this size as it was closest to my old bombard aerotec (that I miss greatly) in length and would suit my 18hp outboard. Having used it for a few seasons I wish I had gone for a 3.4 or there abouts as I rarely go out with more than one other person and then I could have gotten away with a smaller lighter outboard making the whole thing a lot more manhandle-able now that the wife is pregnant.

I'd say buy for the 99% use case, and grumble the few times you feel limited rather than hurting your back and finding the whole thing a hassle every time you want to go out.

Limecc · 08 June 2021, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

We’re in Barnsley & use Whitby as our “local” launch. At least being in the centre of the country, you might not be close to anywhere, but your options are varied. You’re not stuck to the same old cruising ground.

Ever gone out on the Humber? I'm wondering if it's worth trying.

citygent111 · 08 June 2021, 21:36

Actually Limecc, I did my Powerboat Level 2 on the Humber a couple of years ago.

Only stayed between the bridge and Hull Marina, but it was good experience on quite fast moving water. Not sure there is anywhere to really go though, and it was mucky!