Futura Mk 2 vs Mk3, and some other questions

[jeffstevens763@g]

Sib'S are as safe as ribs in the right hands have a look at gurnard's trips on here which I go on regular circum nav of mull, Jura and Skye as a few multi day trips camping. I've been in force 5-6 sea conditions with no fear having said that I've 50 years expeariance. Cut your cloth to your ability, if your diving you want good viz your not going to get that in bad weather plus your boat man needs to follow you for pick up no good if it's rough as chuff.
The speed tubes are supposed to be the only thing in the water at speed so not so much drag and so less hp needed I've never used one or with diver weight so I would stick my neck out and say great in calm or slight chop but I wouldn't think there's much in it in the rough which you would probably be in displacement speed anyway. The 435 would be caperble with a 30 and propped to carry weight at the low pitch end so your geared to get good hole shot when you drop off the plane having said that you might have to be two divers two crew. I'm not disising ribs but it's not what your situation fits so your going to compromise. you'll Just have to plan your journeys to suit load and performance. lastly on the speed tubes I didn't buy them because I wasn't sure they would suit my style of boating, thier vulnerable when landing and the trailer has to be higher which goes against my trailer which I had built as low as possible for launching and ease for me

[spartacus]

Originally Posted by Mel769

Likely it would be in the back of the van, thanks for the input. A couple more questions here from me if you dont mind; would a 4.35m Sib with just the one person on board be safer and more stable in choppy conditions than a smaller sized model; i.e is bigger better ? I see the 4.35 is a popular size, any specific reason for this other than passenger carrying ability ?? in comparison to the old Avon searider RIB (like the one seen on that youtube video where he finds on old harbourmaster one and repairs it), is the handling; comfort, and seaworthiness of a 4.35 SIB greatly diminished ??

SIBs, one up at the size you're mentioning I'd have thought could be a bit twitchy if lightly loaded in choppy conditions. Ideally you want to helm by moving further forward to keep the bow down, especially in any chop if the wind gets up. I used to stick a bag of sand in the bow of our Zodiac MKIICGT (3.70) if I was out myself. Much more comfortable and controllable with two-up, and this was in the Atlantic in all weathers!

The Avon you're referring to is a Searider. Available in 4.0m, 4.7m (rare), 5.4m, 6.0m +, etc. You can't compare like for like. It has deep-V hull, hypalon fabric, flooding hull at rest so completely different boat, but then you're into trailer only territory, storage, bigger engine. Also, if you're looking at Avons, there's literally loads out there, in varying degrees of seaworthiness from 'free to good home' to full refurbished boats complete with re-tubes. Zodiac own the brand now marketed under MilPro and you can pick up a 4.7m from new. Beautiful boats. https://www.rib.net/forum/f8/zodiac-...7-a-84601.html

Now since looking at various internet stuff, it appears that SIBs are only really comfortable for flat calm seas, which lets face it, is not that often in the UK !?

Not at all. RIBs offer more security in poorer weather agreed, but you just need to look at some of the threads on the SIB section, the miles covered and see the versatility they offer.

[Mel769]

So, since yesterday I've realised there's boats called F-Ribs ! There dont seem to be as much info on F-Ribs than Sibs on the face of it. Im assuming an F-Rib would be more stable, and can go faster in the water than a SIB. So im now thinking an F-Rib would be better for me. What would be the advantages/disadvantages of an F-Rib over a Sib ? And do the F-Ribs have solid floors? I read that a 3.75m F-Rib can be picked up and carried without too much over exertion , so maybe 2 people could do the same with a 4.3m F-Rib. Choices now for me are a foldable boat for occasional scuba diving with 3-5 people on board, should I opt for a 4.35 Excel or a similar sized F-Rib ? Any advice/pointers; cheers guys !

[Limecc]

Originally Posted by Mel769

So, since yesterday I've realised there's boats called F-Ribs ! There dont seem to be as much info on F-Ribs than Sibs on the face of it. Im assuming an F-Rib would be more stable, and can go faster in the water than a SIB. So im now thinking an F-Rib would be better for me. What would be the advantages/disadvantages of an F-Rib over a Sib ? And do the F-Ribs have solid floors? I read that a 3.75m F-Rib can be picked up and carried without too much over exertion , so maybe 2 people could do the same with a 4.3m F-Rib. Choices now for me are a foldable boat for occasional scuba diving with 3-5 people on board, should I opt for a 4.35 Excel or a similar sized F-Rib ? Any advice/pointers; cheers guys !

F-ribs have a shallow V so while the solid hull allows early planing and efficient use of engine power (possible savings in engine size/weight and fuel or same size engine and faster), they are less comfortable and slam in certain sea conditions and are more expensive to buy. That having been said, I'd never go back to a SIB and would buy one in a heartbeat. The Gurnard on here has one and there's even a F-rib forum dedicated to the concept.

[Mel769]

Originally Posted by Limecc

F-ribs have a shallow V so while the solid hull allows early planing and efficient use of engine power (possible savings in engine size/weight and fuel or same size engine and faster), they are less comfortable and slam in certain sea conditions and are more expensive to buy. That having been said, I'd never go back to a SIB and would buy one in a heartbeat. The Gurnard on here has one and there's even a F-rib forum dedicated to the concept.

Yep ive been looking at the Frib forum also. One thing that strikes me is the Fribs dont tend to have as many accessories than the Sibs, such as arches at the back. Are the Fribs only made by the one company, (only available in grey) aor are there other brands out there, and sorry but ive got to ask why would you not go back to a SIB ?

[Limecc]

Originally Posted by Mel769

Are the Fribs only made by the one company, (only available in grey) aor are there other brands out there, and sorry but ive got to ask why would you not go back to a SIB ?

As far as I know that one company has the patent.

We had a 3.9m SIB with 20hp Suzuki and the main reason we moved to a RIB was the setup faff. I could have purchased a trailer for the SIB but a RIB offered so many more benefits in that I had jockey seats, steering, plotter/sonar, more storage, better handling especially in bigger seas/overfalls/wakes, drier ride, etc etc, the list goes on. I was never able to get rid of the rippling floor and air bubble (causing prop ventilation) cycle despite much experimentation with pressures and configurations. Only occurred when heavily loaded with four and at speed.

I have a very nervous wife so having a more seaworthy boat means she is far happier, translating to more time on the water and there's more places it's possible to visit. Someone with greater experience may be able to fully utilise the true capability of a SIB but they are not for us.

[jeffstevens763@g]

you could look at the highfield range of ribs ali hull and see if the hull will fit in the van with tubes deflated. not sure about the f-rib floors on the bigger boats i know gurnard has fitted floor boards to his 2.75 to make a flat surface which you'd need to kit up for diving

[Mel769]

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

you could look at the highfield range of ribs ali hull and see if the hull will fit in the van with tubes deflated. not sure about the f-rib floors on the bigger boats i know gurnard has fitted floor boards to his 2.75 to make a flat surface which you'd need to kit up for diving

Thanks for the advice, unfortunately the Highfield(s) would not fit in my small van; I do need a foldable boat. My continued research of the Excel vanguard 435 makes me wonder if its too big, it would be a great size for diving but would struggle a bit to move it on my own I expect. Im now considering the 395 for the best of both worlds. What would be your thoughts on the 395 for two (or possibly 3) single cylinder divers and a passenger ?

[jeffstevens763@g]

I think an air floor would be up your street just have to protect the floor from dive kit have a word with pikey Dave he's a diver and could advise on the excel Voltaire if it would take the stick. Look on his build thread

[Limecc]

Originally Posted by Mel769

Im now considering the 395 for the best of both worlds. What would be your thoughts on the 395 for two (or possibly 3) single cylinder divers and a passenger ?

I purchased an extra bag for my Excel 390 with just the main boat in the one and it was still a massive struggle, as was the Suzuki 20. Depends how you are built I guess, if the bag had shorter/better straps it would have been easier. Besides the weight, it just wasn't an easy carry.

They get heavier when saturated with water and at the end of a long day when you are hungry and tired. Novelty of new SIB ownership soon wears off.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Limecc

I purchased an extra bag for my Excel 390 with just the main boat in the one and it was still a massive struggle, as was the Suzuki 20. Depends how you are built I guess, if the bag had shorter/better straps it would have been easier. Besides the weight, it just wasn't an easy carry.



They get heavier when saturated with water and at the end of a long day when you are hungry and tired. Novelty of new SIB ownership soon wears off.

The Excel bags aren’t great, mine didn’t last a season. I’ve since had a custom bag made at a local supplier. Much more robust. The do have a hard life though.

[Steve509926]

Hi Mel, seems like there is a lot of different thoughts going through your head at the moment, type of boat, size of boat, size of OB.
IMO I think it would help if you actually saw a few SIBs in the flesh. I don't know if there are any showrooms near to where your located, but I think a visit would help you narrow things down a bit. Excel are in Sutton Colefield which isn't a million miles from you. A 435 is a big beast to assemble/disassemble on every occasion that your going to use it and although a Volaire 395 is obviously lighter and smaller it's still a lot for one to handle.
I've noticed you keep saying "small" van, how small? What type of van is it?

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

Hi Mel, seems like there is a lot of different thoughts going through your head at the moment, type of boat, size of boat, size of OB.
IMO I think it would help if you actually saw a few SIBs in the flesh. I don't know if there are any showrooms near to where your located, but I think a visit would help you narrow things down a bit. Excel are in Sutton Colefield which isn't a million miles from you. A 435 is a big beast to assemble/disassemble on every occasion that your going to use it and although a Volaire 395 is obviously lighter and smaller it's still a lot for one to handle.
I've noticed you keep saying "small" van, how small? What type of van is it?

^^^^^^
Wot he said[emoji106] the Volaire 390 is “just” about manageable single handed,if you have a trolley & are prepared to make multiple trips when assembling. It isn’t the weight per se, it’s the bulk & awkward size, combined with the weight. Don’t underestimate the “manhandling” factor.

[Mel769]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

Hi Mel, seems like there is a lot of different thoughts going through your head at the moment, type of boat, size of boat, size of OB.
IMO I think it would help if you actually saw a few SIBs in the flesh. I don't know if there are any showrooms near to where your located, but I think a visit would help you narrow things down a bit. Excel are in Sutton Colefield which isn't a million miles from you. A 435 is a big beast to assemble/disassemble on every occasion that your going to use it and although a Volaire 395 is obviously lighter and smaller it's still a lot for one to handle.
I've noticed you keep saying "small" van, how small? What type of van is it?

Yep you got that right, theres alot if ideas going round my head right now. I may visit Excel at Sutton Coalfield to have a look thats a good idea. However, in a nutshell im looking for a foldable boat that is "possible" to set up, launch, and retrieve (up a slipway probably) alone. My van is a VW Caddy so im sure I could fit a folded up boat and the other stuff into it. With my limited knowledge, to satisfy my requirements (as above), ive narrowed it down to max 420, and minimum 360. I like the idea of a solid floor but realise it adds to the weight. Im quite fit and use to physical work so I can handle exertion no problem. My issue is I have no experience in this sort of thing so likely blinkered in my views, I would prefer the 420 but ?

Ops also forgot to add that I need the boat big enough for a minimum of 2 kitted up scuba divers (single cylinder), and the driver.

[Mel769]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

^^^^^^
Wot he said[emoji106] the Volaire 390 is “just” about manageable single handed,if you have a trolley & are prepared to make multiple trips when assembling. It isn’t the weight per se, it’s the bulk & awkward size, combined with the weight. Don’t underestimate the “manhandling” factor.

Is that just about manageable with the engine still attached ?

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by Mel769

Yep you got that right, theres alot if ideas going round my head right now. I may visit Excel at Sutton Coalfield to have a look thats a good idea. However, in a nutshell im looking for a foldable boat that is "possible" to set up, launch, and retrieve (up a slipway probably) alone. My van is a VW Caddy so im sure I could fit a folded up boat and the other stuff into it. With my limited knowledge, to satisfy my requirements (as above), ive narrowed it down to max 420, and minimum 360. I like the idea of a solid floor but realise it adds to the weight. Im quite fit and use to physical work so I can handle exertion no problem. My issue is I have no experience in this sort of thing so likely blinkered in my views, I would prefer the 420 but ?

Ops also forgot to add that I need the boat big enough for a minimum of 2 kitted up scuba divers (single cylinder), and the driver.

If you do intend to visit Excel give Terry a call first to make sure he's got in what you want to see.

420/435 aluminium floor, OB attached, up a slipway solo is very doubtful. I have an Excel SD360 and I can just about manage to get that up a shallow slipway with OB and a bit of kit, and I'm not unfit.

You shouldn't have a problem fitting everything you need into a VW Caddy.

I've no experience of diving and/or the amount of kit. However, 3 adults a med size dog and a bit of kit is the maximum I'd want in a 360. So I would suggest the smallest you would want/need to go is a 390.

[Mel769]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

If you do intend to visit Excel give Terry a call first to make sure he's got in what you want to see.

420/435 aluminium floor, OB attached, up a slipway solo is very doubtful. I have an Excel SD360 and I can just about manage to get that up a shallow slipway with OB and a bit of kit, and I'm not unfit.

You shouldn't have a problem fitting everything you need into a VW Caddy.

I've no experience of diving and/or the amount of kit. However, 3 adults a med size dog and a bit of kit is the maximum I'd want in a 360. So I would suggest the smallest you would want/need to go is a 390.

A 390, with a trolley under the front end, with ali floor and OB; is that possible alone with a trolley under the front end ?

[Steve509926]

Maybe, but I don't know how fit you are and I've never used a trolley.
I'm sure there will be a few guys on here who will know how effective a trolley at the front can be.

[Steve509926]

If this is a stupid idea you'll have to excuse my ignorance, as I've already said I know nothing about diving.
I don't understand the need for an aluminium floor if you can't use/store a built up SIB on a trailer. I can understand rough edges on air tanks, but is it particularly sharp? Why not an air floor protected with lightweight EVA mats?
The mats will protect the floor from being damaged and will make things so much lighter and easier for you to build up/strip down every time you use your SIB.
As I was informed when I was looking for my first SIB, every boat is a compremise, and that is very true. Too small and you won't be able to do what you want to do. Too big and cumbersome to build up/strip down every time you use it and you WON'T WANT to do what you had hoped to do.

[Mel769]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

If this is a stupid idea you'll have to excuse my ignorance, as I've already said I know nothing about diving.
I don't understand the need for an aluminium floor if you can't use/store a built up SIB on a trailer. I can understand rough edges on air tanks, but is it particularly sharp? Why not an air floor protected with lightweight EVA mats?
The mats will protect the floor from being damaged and will make things so much lighter and easier for you to build up/strip down every time you use your SIB.
As I was informed when I was looking for my first SIB, every boat is a compremise, and that is very true. Too small and you won't be able to do what you want to do. Too big and cumbersome to build up/strip down every time you use it and you WON'T WANT to do what you had hoped to do.

I would prefer a solid floor for stability and dive cylinders may need to be strapped down. Anyhow after much research I will likely go for a Quicksilver 365 HD, I would like the next size up but it might be too much to manhandle alone. I cannot find any pics of the Quicksilver Hd's with an A frame (or arch) mounted, is there a reason for this ? Anyone know if the Excel A frame can be mounted to the Quicksilver 365 ? Cheers