futura vs caesar surfcat

[69cmw]

Originally Posted by trevpiee

He gave me a deal on a hypalon boat... only catch was the material he had left is yellow So I am going yellow with black trim. I'm still undecided on power. I am big on portability and packability. Really thinking about the yami f25.. only weighs 130lbs

Is that the 3.8m in yellow hypalon?
Rather than the 4.1m [emoji848]

[pagick]

Originally Posted by Roflhat

That will look smart, you should call it Bumblebee
I think after a while you will get bored and want more power, they raced them with Yamaha F40's in France for a while.

When don't you want more speed?
I worked out how to handle the weight of the motor with out it being a hastle. I have a folding trailer and a cheap electric hoist i hang from my garage door arch. I spend 1 hour building my boat completely ready to go, on the trailer. This I can store in my garage all summer then dismantle in fall and its gone till summer again. I could do this for individual boating trips too but I go out for 2-3 days at a time. Not for the afternoon like he might.
Now for me I had a 40 on mine the first year and it was a big disappointment.
I sold it (thank god it was used when I bought it) and bought a 60 etec. Now I love my boat.

All that said, Roflhat, the spec sheet on the SurfCat says 130lbs is max engine weight.
Have you seen a 50hp with the 130lbs weight limit? My motor is 240lbs same as 40 & 50hp etec. Just at Futura max weight.
And I looked at the 2018 Yamaha lineup and don't see the Square cowled models all you guys run. Is that an older model that the Holy Grail of racing outboards?

[Roflhat]

I've never seen the Surfcat spec sheet say 130lb or any weight I don't think, on the Ceasar site it says max 70hp.
The tohatsu 50d2 is 72kg in short shaft, the yamaha 50 2 stroke will be around the same, my 70ces will be slightly heavier but not much with the electric start, power trim etc. all removed. You can still get the Tohatsu and Yamaha 50 2 stroke new but only for commercial or racing use over here anyway. I think used ones are a lot harder to come by over in the states, especially the tohatsu. For racing you really want the simplicity and light weight of the yamaha or tohatsu, if you flip they are easy to get going again

[Kernow Explorer]

Originally Posted by Roflhat

You can go direct to Jacques, he's a nice guy and can help you out with shipping etc.
The quality is superb, and if you store them inside they'll last a long time too. They are prone to fading in the sun, best kept undercover or indoors, same as any other PVC inflatable. They're best stored with some air in them, around half pressure
Another alternative is the Gemini GRX Surf I think it's called. 4.2m long, a bit heavier and more durable than a surfcat and probably not as sporty but made in hypalon.

Can't really say whether or not bow rise is better/worse, if you want to go fast then less boat in the water is the way to do it but they are stable upto 60mph.
I like to keep as much weight as possible aft, if you're going above 50mph you do have to be careful going flat out, especially into the wind as they do tend to lift.

Hi Rolf I've just fit a second hand surfcat, 50 hp toahatsu an only getting 35 knots with 2 people on board was expecting a bit more. Any advice on trim position etc. Thanks Robin

[Roflhat]

Do you know what prop is on it?
With a decent 14 or 15p stainless prop you should be getting 40-42 knots
Hard to advise on trim as the angle on the transoms varied over the years, but looking at the boat from the side the engine should be close to perpendicular to the boat, you don't need much trim as the boats generate bow lift anyway

[Kernow Explorer]

Morning, thank you for taking the time to reply. I can see you help so many people out.

I think maybe the motor needs rasing as the prop nut is below the centre of the high jacker . I'm not sure what prop size it is, I have attached some pics.



https://photos.app.goo.gl/BD4qXncXFqrAPTVRA

[Roflhat]

Looks like a 15 pitch powertech semi cleaver, which should be good for 40 knots. I'd start with the centre of the prop shaft 10mm above the bottom of teh hijackers, you can run string around the boat to measure. I'd do that and then go and try different trims to see what feels right, you want to get the whole boat out of the water that's how you get the speed

[Kernow Explorer]

Thank you very much. I've ran a piece of string. It looks to me as prop shaft is just below the valve. If I raise it due to the holes in fge motor mount it would be by 30 mm. I've updated pictures in the above link. I've used some tape to highlight the string. Thanks for you help. Let me know what you think.

[Roflhat]

If anything I'd go down 10mm but I reckon engine height is fine where it is.
Have a play with different trim settings and see how you get on, you want all the weight towards the stern in the boat. Also make sure your tubes are hard enough, you want 6 psi in the main tubes and 12psi in the speed tubes

[Kernow Explorer]

Morning, thank you will play with the trim on Saturday and see what works best for my weight etc.

[Kernow Explorer]

Afternoon, hope you're having a good weekend. We'll I wrapped up and went out this morning for play. For me the 3rd hole seems to best on trim setting for top speed and control. Got 37.2 knots with myself, passenger and 35 ltrs of fuel. Took your advice and got the passenger to move back gradually. Having them back towards my foot strap is where I got the most speed. Wasn't the flattest of days but confident I'll get to 40 knots. Thanks for all your help.

[69cmw]

I used to get 40 knots out of my Surfcat with a 40hp yam on it. Best pin position was the 1st hole. That was hitting the rev limiter with a 15” prop.

[Kernow Explorer]

I need to get a tachometer installed, just trying to get one that's not over the top expensive. Was that 1 up or 2 up ?

[69cmw]

Originally Posted by Kernow Explorer

I need to get a tachometer installed, just trying to get one that's not over the top expensive. Was that 1 up or 2 up ?

Same speed with both, I hit the limiter both 1 and 2 up

[Kernow Explorer]

Afternoon all, so still been playing and 37.4 knots 2 up is is my top end. Not had a flat sea yet.

Tachometer installed and 5250 is what it gets to, then holding the throttle open it will after time Get to 5450. I'm thinking of having the power tech 15p semi cleaver worked or should I try a cheaper prop maybe with less pitch to increase the RPM.

thanks in advance.

[Roflhat]

You should be hitting the limiter with a 15p prop on that, have you trying trimming up a bit? These boats like some air under them, lift as much of the boat out the water as you can that's where the speed is

[Kernow Explorer]

Hi Rolf, yes tried in all positions. When flat out it feels like the very back is the only thing in the water as it is twitchy as hell. I've not had a flat sea yet so is always on chop or waves.

[Roflhat]

Nice that's how you want it, and keep all the weight as far back as you can. But you definitely want to be closer to the rev limiter, do some more tests on calm days but if youre not above 5600 then either get the powertech repitched down or buy a 14p. I've got 14p stainless semi cleavers for sale if you're interested

[Kernow Explorer]

I only have a cheap tach but it seems consistent. If I compared it to a car it hits 5250, then it's like going down a hill to get the extra speed really slow and fluctuations between t250 and 5450. I think I need a real calm day to try or launch and go somewhere else. I did try the prop guard and that reduced my speed to 28 knots flat out. So I beached and took it straight off. What will the damage be on your prop ?

[Roflhat]

Definitely worth setting it up on a very calm day, that's what I always do and then that setup is usually good in the rough too. Prop guards are a non starter on these in my opinion, the kiwis did develop a faster version but still 5 knots slower. The 14p semi cleaver I sell for £339.99