Hello - New Boaters Seeking advice

PEveritt · 09 May 2021, 06:17

We are new to boating and like many others are planning to Holiday in the UK this year and looking to buy our first boat.

We were looking at the Elling and in that thread we were advised to post a more general request for help and this is it.

Myself and my Partner live in Brighton and have little experience of boating but have used inflatable canoes in the past. Our Budget for the boat, engine and other necessary stuff (we have life jackets) is about £3000. We would tend to travel with the boat packed up in the car which is a mondeo estate. Our use would be mixed including both Sea, Lakes and Rivers I think but nothing too scary. Storage when not in use would be in the shed There is just the two of us with no Children.

Any advice and help choosing the best set up would be appreciated.

Oldman2 · 09 May 2021, 06:34

Welcome to the forum, good sized car to carry all the kit is the first requirement and I see you have that covered. Its a little early in the day for a flood of advice from members, but stand by for lots of helpful advice once the day rolls on. Your choice of boat may become more difficult as quite a few models are highly thought of. supply may be the difficulty, with everyone "staycationing" demand often outstrips supply. For instance that Elling KB350 appears to only have left 2 in stock from the last 5th May batch. Enjoy choosing and using whatever you finally get.

Fenlander · 09 May 2021, 11:56

Random thoughts...

I have a Mondeo Estate and that will fit SIB, transom wheels, fuel tank, outboard up to 20hp and all the other kit needed into the loadspace leaving the back seats useable. Great load carrier.

You are lucky being at Brighton... our days out to the coast start with a near two hour drive.

For a daily inflate from the back of the car you ideally need to stick to air floor models. There is a great choice between Zodiac, Honwave, Excel, Elling and many more. The particular appeal of the Elling KB350 for many is broadly speaking it seems to have the same performance with a 10hp motor as a 15hp motor on some other more "draggy" hull models. And dropping from a 15/20hp to a 10hp can mean going down from a 43-50+kg motor to one in the 26kg-38kg range which makes a big difference handling out of the car each trip. There are trolleys and methods for handling the larger motors and sometimes their power is welcome but the lighter you start with always better for a daily setup outfit.

The way the Elling packs up with its floor separate means it is the lightest by far to handle in and out of the car.

A 10hp will give you a very acceptable performance two up (as long as you are not super stocky!) on the Elling and a few more SIBs... should you feel able to cope with the extra weight a 15hp would ensure excellent performance.

If you wanted an Elling KB350 I think today there are just two left so probably will sell out by next week.... no idea when the next batch will arrive but you could ask Boatworld.

Just think carefully if you think of a package from Boatworld with their Orca outboards. They are not a main brand and have little service/parts support in the UK and a low resale value. It may be on balance you are happy to accept their low prices as an offset but just be aware. Also they can be a bit a little heavier than others. As a guide to prices the Orca 9.8 is about £1200 compared to around £2000 for a mainstream brand.

Fenlander · 09 May 2021, 14:42

Just for interest I tried the packed Elling into the Mondeo just now... a nice snug fit leaving loads of room for outboard behind and other kit packed around and on top.

Brinormeg · 09 May 2021, 17:47

Hi. I’ve also not long joined the forum and if you navigate the search engine bar you will find a lot of information to help you on your way (and even more opinions, options and advice to confuse your choice even more)

For the money you are willing to spend there was a time you could have easily bought a very good Complete Second Hand Setup. But as said…. the demand is very high and seems there are very little “bargains” to be had anywhere.

If like me your mechanical and boating knowledge are limited……there are many unscrupulous people who will try and cash in on the increased demand by offering up “bargains” which might not be all they seem.

Recently one of the members here (The Gurnard) posted a video/pictures of himself stripping down an old inflatable boat which had seen alot of use for many years. Not only to recycle parts of it, but also to stop the possibility of someone being hurt or killed using it later as he just wasn’t confident that the sib would be safe.
Unfortunately, not everyone possess that quality of character to do this, and would quite happily sell us something that isn’t completely safe with no warranty or any real recourse of any kind.

With this in mind and with a slightly more modest cash amount we personally have to spend under £2000, I am definitely considering buying something new partly on Credit, and using the left over cash to buy any Extras…(which I’m sure the guys here will tell you, you never knew you could live without as time goes by)

Locally the couple of rather tired looking sib minimum setups I have looked at in person, I just couldn’t say were worth the asking price of £2000 (and to be honest didnt even look as though they should go into the water) This and with my lack of knowledge of their Outboards which were quite old, meant I just couldn't financially or safety wise take a risk.
This along with all the extras I would then need to buy, firstly to remain safe, and also for comfort, travel, practicality etc

The posts below may also be useful to you

https://www.rib.net/forum/f50/what-k...sib-42712.html
https://www.rib.net/forum/f50/which-...sib-62208.html

I think as new sibbers (and probably even the experienced guys here will say the same) we will have to compromise be it buying new or old….particularly because of the way the market is.

The issue I am having now is that even buying new is becoming difficult with most of the options I was considering from New being already sold out. Be it the Sib, Outboard or even Accessories!

Now I am not sure if I should hold on a little longer to try get What I Really Want or just bite the bullet and grab something soon, which might mean I will regret it later!

Decisions! Decisions! Decisions!

I was considering a new Honwave T38 Airdeck type or whatever the Excel or other boat manufacturers equivalent may be, with a new Outboard of at least 15HP to push it along with myself (6ft3 114kg) and admittedly smaller/lighter wife, teenage son and medium sized dog along with possibly camping/fishing/eating gear
.
But anyway good luck and keep us posted how your search is doing

Steve509926 · 09 May 2021, 20:15

Hi PE and welcome again

Availability may force your hand when it comes down to buying a SIB, OB and relevant gear. Shortages started last year and have only got worse this year due to staycations and covid.

Most people on the forum would advise not to go any less than 3.2 in length, and personally I would advise not to go any bigger than 3.8/3.9 in length, purely because of deflated weight and size. As Fenlander has already said, if inflating/deflating every time you use it, an Airdeck makes life so much easier. There will be reviews on this forum for the likes of Honwave T32 and T38, Excel SD330 & SD360, both good makes with different characteristics. The Elling KB350 is relatively new to this forum and I don't think (shoot me down if I'm wrong

) there are any member reviews as yet, saying that, Fenlander and others will have done a lot of research and it does sound like a very interesting proposition, one which I will consider when my present set up becomes to heavy for me.
As for OB, if you went for a Excel SD330, Honwave T32 or a Elling KB350, with 2 up and a bit of kit, a 9.8hp would push it along nicely. Step upto a Excel SD360 or a Honwave T38 I think you will need a 15hp minimum. By the sound of it, you are not a tinkering with outboard sort of man (sorry if I'm wrong) so my advice would be to go for a 1st line 4 stroke EFI outboard, Tohatsu, Susi, Merc, Yamaha,Honda. Other makes Parsun, Orca etc are much cheaper but you may struggle for dealers and parts.
Other things to consider are transom wheels, anchor, life jackets (kayak ones are a bit cumbersome) OB trolley /stand - the list can be never ending.
Good luck in your search, and do ask questions. The forum is a great help, they helped me considerably.

HDAV · 09 May 2021, 21:20

Good luck! Prices are rising and availability shrinking everyone else has had the same idea

PEveritt · 10 May 2021, 06:04

We have been reading all the advice with great interest and because of various factors have decided to go in a slightly different direction. We have joined British Canoeing which gives us a water licence to a lot of inland water ways and have ordered one of these which can be both rowed/paddled and have a small motor. Once it is received we will do a little review on here. Lets hope it arrives before our planned UK holiday.

TmMorris · 10 May 2021, 07:11

Excellent. Some of those new style kayak look superb. Much easier to set up, lug about and pack away. There's no shortage of small outboards it seems so you can make a relaxed and informed choice there and there will be a lot of boat craft that you can pick up in the more relaxed environment of a river.

I have a feeling that many people such as myself will be seeing this season as a time to return to the water after long absences and many others will be heading out for the first time and it could actually be a little calamitous, if not dangerous at times.

PEveritt · 10 May 2021, 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TmMorris

Excellent. Some of those new style kayak look superb. Much easier to set up, lug about and pack away. There's no shortage of small outboards it seems so you can make a relaxed and informed choice there and there will be a lot of boat craft that you can pick up in the more relaxed environment of a river.

I have a feeling that many people such as myself will be seeing this season as a time to return to the water after long absences and many others will be heading out for the first time and it could actually be a little calamitous, if not dangerous at times.

Thanks for that nice reply. We also thought that something that could be used calmly and simply might be a good start. Hopefully it should be here in a couple of weeks and we can share our findings.

Steve509926 · 10 May 2021, 08:24

Looks like a great piece of kit for lakes, rivers and calm days on the sea. Think it will fly with a 6hp on the back.
A review when you've had it a while, with a few pics would be good.
Hope you both enjoy using it.

Fenlander · 10 May 2021, 09:58

PE did you get a package with outboard included?

As said above it will go well with a 6hp and for lakes/rivers a 4hp would still move you nicely. Also it would push the budget by up to an extra £200 but you could get a near silent Torqeedo electric motor if you kept to inland waters.

TmMorris · 10 May 2021, 10:29

I have to say that despite my love of all things petrol, for a small craft, pottering up a river the tranquility of an electric outboard would be the way I would go these days.

Steve509926 · 10 May 2021, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Just for interest I tried the packed Elling into the Mondeo just now... a nice snug fit leaving loads of room for outboard behind and other kit packed around and on top.

Not hijacking the thread, but I have to say that fits in very neatly David

Fenlander · 10 May 2021, 10:43

Yes for us the sea is where it's at but having a river nearby we use it from time to time and there are a gradually increasing amount of elec outboards on small boats we meet. I wouldn't buy one for our small river use but would be happy with their quiet manner of going.

>>>that fits in very neatly

Yes.. bit of a case of only just on the width but the room left between it and tailgate leaves plenty of space for all the other kit.

PEveritt · 10 May 2021, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

PE did you get a package with outboard included?

As said above it will go well with a 6hp and for lakes/rivers a 4hp would still move you nicely. Also it would push the budget by up to an extra £200 but you could get a near silent Torqeedo electric motor if you kept to inland waters.

No we did not go with a Package and we are looking at various small outboard options. In order to keep costs down and bearing in mind the boat is also easily rowed and coupled with the fact that it seems very difficult to buy new small 4 strokes from the main dealers we have been thinking that a little lightweight 4 hp 4 stoke from ebay might be ok.

PEveritt · 10 May 2021, 17:11

Now some of you might find this a little sad but we now know where our little boat is. It is on this ship and we have located it on the high seas. We will watch it each day

HDAV · 10 May 2021, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by PEveritt

No we did not go with a Package and we are looking at various small outboard options. In order to keep costs down and bearing in mind the boat is also easily rowed and coupled with the fact that it seems very difficult to buy new small 4 strokes from the main dealers we have been thinking that a little lightweight 4 hp 4 stoke from ebay might be ok.

Be warned buying a “cheap ebay outboard” with a barely modified strimmer motor is likely to be contentious at best dangerous at worst a used but well serviced 2 stroke from the major manufacturers is a much better buy Yamaha, tohatsu, mercury ideally. They are light, reliable, easy to get parts for and well known (so faults easily diagnosed) these small motors go for years and years and years. The small amount of oil they burn (as a leisure user you won’t burn much at all so buy the good stuff and fresh petrol) likely less than the amount that goes into production and shipping the cheapy 4 stroke from China......

Tel1965 · 11 May 2021, 09:15

When I picked my Elling up the other day the guy said to me that they have another dozen on order and supposed to arrive sometime in august, but, he was doubtful that that would happen because of the situation in the Ukraine. So anybody wanting an Elling for the summer should move very quickly.

PEveritt · 11 May 2021, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDAV

Be warned buying a “cheap ebay outboard” with a barely modified strimmer motor is likely to be contentious at best dangerous at worst a used but well serviced 2 stroke from the major manufacturers is a much better buy Yamaha, tohatsu, mercury ideally. They are light, reliable, easy to get parts for and well known (so faults easily diagnosed) these small motors go for years and years and years. The small amount of oil they burn (as a leisure user you won’t burn much at all so buy the good stuff and fresh petrol) likely less than the amount that goes into production and shipping the cheapy 4 stroke from China......

Having been trying to learn as much as we can by clicking around we sort of come to the conclusion that 2 stroke outboards were only to be used now on commercial boats because of environmental concerns. We are not massive eco warriors but would like to use a 4 stroke if possible.