Help ! Stuck in Sardinia with failed S&R Rib - pressure relief valve bond failed

Rake · 24 July 2023, 23:11

Hi all, I purchased a northern diver S&R 3.2m SIB to take with us on holiday to Sardinia for some coastal exploration and this item is key to our travels as in order to enjoy it. We had to drive over France and Italy to get to Sardinia.

On arrival, we inflated the board in order to test it, and the PVC bonding where the pressure relief valves are present, has failed and results in total deflation of the deck.

I’m really surprised by this as this is a professional search and rescue vessel. I called Northern diver this morning, who told me to get a two-part polyurethane glue and glue the flaps back down to the deck in order to make it seal. I bought a professional glue and have bonded it. However, I would appreciate any advice as to how to repair this permanently.

Basically there is a pressure relief all fitted into the deck which is inflatable. It is fixed into the deck by means of a circular piece of PVC which is glued to the deck. The glue between the deck and the valve fixing has failed in the heat. developed a massive bubble and eventually released, allowing all the air to escape from the deck

I went and bought a two-part professional polyurethane repair kit and I have applied it. However, despite using the cleaner specified with the kit I could not remove the old adhesive so I bonded the PVC with the old adhesive present. I did however clean everything with the correct specified cleaner and acetone for good measure.

Now the PVC glue that I used was Italian and I cannot find very much English information about how to use it. However, it says the cure time is 72 hours. Can that be for real ?

I’m totally shocked as to how a professional search and rescue vessel has failed in this way.

Steve509926 · 25 July 2023, 08:21

English instructions may help :-

https://www.polymarine.com/advice/pv...om-pvc-fabric/

Without removing the old adhesive the bond may eventually fail. I would be retuning the SIB back to Northern Diver as soon as I was back in the UK for a replacement or full refund.

What model sib is it?

Max... · 25 July 2023, 09:04

These?

https://www.ndiver-rescue.com/ds320-air-vib

That seems pretty poor but all manufactured items are subject to issues of course - a trip like this but you didn't inflate it at home first to check all was good?

Usually a combo of heat gun (*very* gently), a scraper, a fine grade Scotchbrite and acetone will remove all old glue which is essential.

Any two part glue (especially in Italian temps) should be fine in 24 hrs max.

Rake · 25 July 2023, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve509926

English instructions may help :-

https://www.polymarine.com/advice/pv...om-pvc-fabric/

Without removing the old adhesive the bond may eventually fail. I would be retuning the SIB back to Northern Diver as soon as I was back in the UK for a replacement or full refund.

What model sib is it?

Thanks for the reply. I am shocked at how this could’ve happened with such a high-quality manufacturer. Of course I did inflate and test those in the UK. However it is the Italian temperatures that have caused the delamination

Rake · 25 July 2023, 09:21

I tried to remove the old adhesive for two hours last night, using both acetone and the recommended cleaner from the manufacturer of the two parts polyurethane adhesive. It was near impossible. However, I have managed to remove a significant amount but not all of it.

I’ve completed the repair, albeit a little ugly and will wait 24 hours before inflating it to test it. However, we are only here for 12 days and I’ve already missed two days of boating

Rake · 25 July 2023, 09:22

And on a further note, I cannot believe how crap Northern diver has been. I called them yesterday for some support and the guy told me to use two parts polyurethane adhesive for bonding hard plastic pipes. He said oh yeah that’s good for 16 but it should be fine, but I can’t be held responsible if it doesn’t work And then they failed to answer the phone for the rest of the day

Steve509926 · 25 July 2023, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rake

Thanks for the reply. I am shocked at how this could’ve happened with such a high-quality manufacturer. Of course I did inflate and test those in the UK. However it is the Italian temperatures that have caused the delamination

Beg to differ on the "high quality",. They are not made buy ND, they are bought in from a manufacturer in the far east, and will only be as good as the price and quality control dictates.
If it's the "Wren" you have I don't think that is aimed at S&R I think it's aimed at the leasure market, not that it should make any difference .I'm surprised it has a PRV in the airdeck.
Italian temperatures shouldn't make any difference. If it can't stand a temp in excess of 50°c then it's a poor show, it wasn't bonded correctly when it was manufacturersd.

Hope you manage to get a few days out on the water.

Rake · 25 July 2023, 10:04

It’s a BS300VIB

IT is most definitely a rescue vessels because it’s got rescue all over it and it’s bright orange and black

https://www.ndiver-rescue.com/uploads/documents/product/45/northern-diver-inflatable-boats-datasheet.pdf

Steve509926 · 25 July 2023, 10:12

That's really poor, think I'd be demanding a refund (not a repair/replacement) when you get back.

Good luck with your temp repair.

Fenlander · 25 July 2023, 15:24

>>>really surprised by this as this is a professional search and rescue vessel.

This is not a negative against your SIB but so you have realistic expectations...

Anyone can make an orange SIB and attach the word Rescue. Your model costs only £100 more than a standard leisure Honwave of the same design/length which as a matter of interest weighs about 10% more. A full on rescue grade boat... from say Zodiac... of just over 3m would need another £6000 adding to the price of yours and has a build weighing twice as much.

That does not negate the fact this is a very poor failure and very poor of Northern Divers if they really haven't helped. Like Steve I would want a replacement boat or probably more than that a refund... I would not want to keep this if they just repaired it. It might hold for the purposes of your holiday but given the existing glue has proven it's failed then every bit of it needed cleaning off.

Rake · 25 July 2023, 18:06

Totally unprofessional reply from @northerndiver

Thank you for your email and pictures,

I believe you have already spoken to Craig several times yesterday; I understand you purchased the boat second hand, so the boat is not covered by warranty, as warranty is not transferable. Not to mention the boat was sold back in sept 2021, so out of warranty even if the boat was owned by the original purchaser.

We have no idea on the history, storage or what the boat may have encountered. The boat is manufactured from PVC, so its more suited for the UK environment.

I would offer our services to fix the boat at a cost, however I know this is not practical,

I would hope that you would be able to find help locally to repair the boat.

I am sorry for your troubles, but this is always run the risk when purchasing second hand equipment.

Pikey Dave · 25 July 2023, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rake

Totally unprofessional reply from @northerndiver

Thank you for your email and pictures,

I believe you have already spoken to Craig several times yesterday; I understand you purchased the boat second hand, so the boat is not covered by warranty, as warranty is not transferable. Not to mention the boat was sold back in sept 2021, so out of warranty even if the boat was owned by the original purchaser.

We have no idea on the history, storage or what the boat may have encountered. The boat is manufactured from PVC, so its more suited for the UK environment.

I would offer our services to fix the boat at a cost, however I know this is not practical,

I would hope that you would be able to find help locally to repair the boat.

I am sorry for your troubles, but this is always run the risk when purchasing second hand equipment.

I actually think that’s a pretty reasonable response tbh. Especially as it’s now clear that you bought the boat 2nd hand, which you didn’t mention earlier.
I understand your frustration, but at the end of the day, you have absolutely no comeback or contract with ND.

As always “Caveat Emptor”

Steve509926 · 25 July 2023, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

I actually think that’s a pretty reasonable response tbh. Especially as it’s now clear that you bought the boat 2nd hand, which you didn’t mention earlier.
I understand your frustration, but at the end of the day, you have absolutely no comeback or contract with ND.

As always “Caveat Emptor”

+ 1

The post definitely led me to believe it was a new SIB purchased from Northern Diver recently and was being used for the first time. I would have thought from #2 you could have mentioned it was bought 2nd hand.
Sympathy and I hope your repair holds for your holiday, but Northern Diver can't be held responsible for the failure.
Thought it was unusual as their customer service has always been spot on when I've used them for drybags and any accessories.

Fenlander · 25 July 2023, 18:35

Sorry Rake to make a second post opposing the view you hold.

Like PD & Steve I think that's a pretty measured and fair response from Northern Divers. The whole thrust of your posts had led us to think this was a brand new SIB but given it was used (wonder what is its actual age?) then their attitude throughout has actually been OK.

Max... · 25 July 2023, 21:02

Another member here who fell for the brand new boat presumption.

Rake · 25 July 2023, 23:23

Well I understand why you might have thought it was a new purchase but nowhere did I say it was. I didn’t specify either way. My thrust was more to do with the quality of such a craft failing it could have been on a rescue and could have caused further danger to both the rescuer, and the rescued had it failed in action. We have planned an entire £10,000 trip around this vessel. We chose to drive to Sardinia so that we could use it and train my crew on it and I really do not believe that the response from Northern diver was appropriate. I’m a business owner. I am in a factor, diesel fuel injectors and no matter how long after the purchase date if somebody one of my customers found a manufacturing defect I would repair it free of charge no matter how far out of warranty it was because it promotes my business to do so I would gain more from rectifying the problem then from telling the customer that it’s out of warranty. I’m also that Custom will then go on to tell other people how good my companies, which is more important to me than anything. . I will get in touch with the original buyer and I will ask him to speak to Northern diver. The purchase was made in 2021 the boat hasn’t got a single scarf or crease in it. It’s brand-new I know what signs of use look like this does not have any signs of use whatsoever.. it really should not have failed. The seller told me that he’s had a few repairs done free of charge by Northern diver and they admitted to having use the wrong glue on the sections that required repair. I was told that PVC is no good in the heat why is it that my gumotex PVC Kayaks I’ve put up with 50° C and there’s much abuse as I could throw at them and has never failed me. I feel I have been fobbed off.

On a positive note, I pumped the deck up tonight after having repaired it yesterday and it’s holding her solidly with no signs of a recurrence. Let’s see what it’s like in the Sun like tomorrow

Max... · 26 July 2023, 08:08

Hopefully it will all work out OK and good luck for the rest of the trip.

But it's not a 'rescue' SIB, it's a generic re-badged Chinese PVC leisure boat. Ticking the 'orange' box on a manufacturer's order sheet does not make it any more 'rescue' capable.

There is absolutely no problem with PVC, if you look around the Med, virtually every small tender and inflatable will be glued and heat welded PVC.

But all boats can have issues, it's very unfortunate but if the rescue (ie heavy duty build) element is important then you will need to spend a *lot* more money.

Rake · 26 July 2023, 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max...

Hopefully it will all work out OK and good luck for the rest of the trip.

But it's not a 'rescue' SIB, it's a generic re-badged Chinese PVC leisure boat. Ticking the 'orange' box on a manufacturer's order sheet does not make it any more 'rescue' capable.

There is absolutely no problem with PVC, if you look around the Med, virtually every small tender and inflatable will be glued and heat welded PVC.

But all boats can have issues, it's very unfortunate but if the rescue (ie heavy duty build) element is important then you will need to spend a *lot* more money.

Hi Mc, please look at the specification of the craft. It is most certainly a rescue craft according to Northern divers website
It’s retail is £1300

Rake · 26 July 2023, 08:45

Boat soec
https://www.ndiver-rescue.com/uploads/documents/product/45/northern-diver-inflatable-boats-datasheet.pdf

Steve509926 · 26 July 2023, 08:45

Hi Rake, firstly I hope that your sib is still inflated this morning and you can get on with "training your crew"

It may be being sold by ND as a rescue craft but it's quality is no better to any generic leisure sib that is being sold by other companies. As for the price "£1300", that is the same price as my leisure sib, Excel SD360, which is slightly better quality IMO.

This is an example of a "rescue" sib:-

https://zodiacmilpro.com/inflatables...-rescue-boats/

Cost - approx £7000