Honwave seams

[Stigomery]

Not sure I'd be happy with a repair under warranty, a brand new boat shouldn't require 'repair' before it's even touched the water!

If on the other hand they were to repair and knock 20% off I'd go for that ;-)

[Fenlander]

Dave

Be genuinely interested to know why the tape needs stitching then cutting when the boats are made??

[office888]

Originally Posted by Stigomery

Not sure I'd be happy with a repair under warranty, a brand new boat shouldn't require 'repair' before it's even touched the water!

If on the other hand they were to repair and knock 20% off I'd go for that ;-)

It's not really a repair. They factory did not sufficiently wet the adhesive out to the edges. It would take a dealer about 15 min to fix that little unglued spot.

It'd be the equivalent if you bought a car and the headliner was peeled down a bit. They aren't going to discount the car 20% because of a spot of peeled headliner. They're going to fix the problem and give it back to you.

[Stigomery]

OK - maybe they're not going to knock 20% off... but I'm well within my rights to a replacement as technically it is faulty:

Under the Consumer Rights Act you have an early right to reject goods that are unsatisfactory quality, unfit for purpose or not as described and get a full refund.
But this right is limited to 30 days from the date of purchase of your product.
However, this right doesn’t apply to faulty digital content.

If that's the case, factor in shipping costs to the dealer, covering return costs to shop, labour to swap the transom wheels over, Honda's internal costs, repairing the boat which is now second hand, depreciation on said boat, etc... 20% would probably be cheaper to them ;-)

[Stigomery]

Originally Posted by office888

It'd be the equivalent if you bought a car and the headliner was peeled down a bit. They aren't going to discount the car 20% because of a spot of peeled headliner. They're going to fix the problem and give it back to you.

I'd argue that a seam is structural, not cosmetic and therefore not really in the realms of your example. Where else have they not wet the glue out to the edges and it's ready to leave me wetter than planned?

Would you accept a new car with a broken body to chassis weld no matter how small?

[Dave Cowell]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Dave

Be genuinely interested to know why the tape needs stitching then cutting when the boats are made??

The tape will be glued to the tubes firat and then the floor bonded to the tubes and tape, Stitching the tape holds it in the folded position making the job easier. The stiching would then be cut after the floor was glued in place.
Honwave have probably started doing this to speed up the manufacturing, older boats that dont have this probably had the tape temporarily glued in the folded position and the glue would then have been cleaned off. Takes longer, costs more but cosmetically looks better.

[Fenlander]

Thanks Dave that makes sense.

Having owned an 18yr old Aerotec and now a new one bought last year you can see the small changes made to construction over the years which probably happens across brands.... and not always for the best.

Like Stig I'm always unsettled by similar faults on new items and often think was this item made without care in other areas that will come to light in the future? I was lucky that with both my faulty Zodiacs the dealers never even talked about a repair... they were embarrased by Zodiac quality letting them down and went for replacement/refund as first choice.

[Stigomery]

I originally suspected that it was part of the manufacturing process but then when I saw strands of thread poking out all over the place and listened to some of the opinions here thought it was something else.

I'm happy to accept this if Honda man confirms but TBH I'm not keen on a simple glue job to fix a peeling seam unless there's some form of good will gesture because my confidence that other areas have been missed/not manufactured to a good level is already knocked.

[office888]

Originally Posted by Stigomery

Would you accept a new car with a broken body to chassis weld no matter how small?

I had a recall affected Isuzu Trooper one time...

Not really the same though. Glue is a special animal.

[Stigomery]

So surprisingly (or maybe not to some) they have come back with an offer for me (or them) to glue the offending seam that is not properly adhered - they say it's not structural.

As regards the stitching they are investigating further and I await their feedback.

Both these options are just initial thoughts from the dealer rather than Honda's position as regards warranty so I don't want to suggest this in any way represents their final offer.

Unless there was some incentive to do so i am not comfortable to accept a product that has questionable build quality (in my mind) - am I just being picky!?!?!

[kaman]

Hi Stig as mentioned before I have a Honwave 3.5ae.
6 years old and no signs of failing seams ........ yet!
With the aluminium floor sections removed you can see signs of stitching around where the floor meets the tubes.
I suspect that this is indeed part of the manufacturing process.
As for accepting the dealer fixing the offending seam by re-glueing it I don't think I'd be overjoyed with that resolution. My confidence would be definitely be dented.
Only you can decide if you can be hassled with removal of your wheels and risking getting another Sib with a defective seam.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Stigomery

OK - maybe they're not going to knock 20% off... but I'm well within my rights to a replacement as technically it is faulty:

Be careful thats not quite what it says. It says you are entitled to a refund. Now if I recall correctly you were advocating this vendor in another thread because they were much cheaper. IMHO they would be within their rights to refund you but refuse to supply a replacement.

Originally Posted by Stigomery

but TBH I'm not keen on a simple glue job to fix a peeling seam unless there's some form of good will gesture because my confidence that other areas have been missed/not manufactured to a good level is already knocked.

You either aren't comfortable with it and reject it OR you are OK with it - I don't see that a "good will gesture" comes into it. If you can't be confident in it then either hearing an ominous hiss as you pop over a big wave or sitting on your sofa wishing you felt assured enough to go and use it, thinking "ah well it was £200 cheaper" isn't going to be much use.

[jelwood]

the previous poster is correct about the stitching its just to keep the strip folded when attaching the floor.

Also im not sure on this exact boat, but i dont think that lifting edge is actually a seam of the tube, its just the edge of the folded strip lifted, it can happen sometimes.

Not that its acceptable on a new boat, but i just mean it probably isnt gonna let go and leave you sinking

Its not even really that important to the strength of the floor or anything its more just to stop dirt sand and stones getting between the floor and tube, Well atleast on the likes of the Zodiac F470,

[beerbelly]

Originally Posted by Stigomery

So surprisingly (or maybe not to some) they have come back with an offer for me (or them) to glue the offending seam that is not properly adhered - they say it's not structural.

As regards the stitching they are investigating further and I await their feedback.

Both these options are just initial thoughts from the dealer rather than Honda's position as regards warranty so I don't want to suggest this in any way represents their final offer.

Unless there was some incentive to do so i am not comfortable to accept a product that has questionable build quality (in my mind) - am I just being picky!?!?!

my first honwave had a manufacturing fault different to yours mine had a 5p piece size area of the floor fabric that was porous and letting air through any way I contacted the dealer cant remember who but they said oh we will contact honwave and see what they want to do .I reminded them I didn't buy it off honwave I bought it off them .I received a replacement within a week

[Stigomery]

Originally Posted by Poly

You either aren't comfortable with it and reject it OR you are OK with it - I don't see that a "good will gesture" comes into it.

From the feedback I have had on this forum and from the dealer it sounds like it's not a major issue (i.e. it is structurally as sound as any other Honwave), it is however an imperfect product, what many manufacturers would call a "second" due to minor manufacturing defects and would as such be sold as such at a discounted price. I'm not of the mind of wasting time and money and most certainly not a huge wad of plastic given our throwaway society. Based on all these facts it seems like whilst not perfect, the boat is sound and with fixes in place and having not paid 100% for it i would be comfortable.

The goodwill gesture is my angle on saving both them and me time/effort/money and we're both happy.

Regardless, they've asked for it back now for a swap so this is all irrelevant now.

My position on this vendor stands, throughout the process of purchase and now fault finding/resolution they have been nothing but helpful, responsive and a pleasure to deal with. In fact were they in fact not cheaper than anywhere else I would still purchase from them due to the excellent service and total lack of pushy sales conversations.

[kaman]

Weather is crud just now any way Stig.
You ain't missing out on much boating while you get your replacement sorted.
Glad to hear you've got things sorted out.

[GrahamW]

I have seen Honwave made in Qingdao, China.

Are these the official makers under licence from Honda, or a copy ?

Gra.

[Stigomery]

So, all happily resolved to my satisfaction both with the dealer and with Honda, both of whom I have to say have been remarkably responsive and helpful.

Just on the stitching issue. As was noted by a couple of other posters this is now the standard manufacturing process on mk2 T38s however unsightly it is - you can't actually see it when the boat is inflated - but it is on all new Honwave boats (and many other brands) with inflatable floors AFAIK.

I was also interested to note that many of the structural joins are actually stitched, and glued as the construction of the boat is a fabric material impregnated with plastic (PVC) - I thought they were just glued.

Also and have the below from Honda:

Factory have now confirmed that the stitching holes in the floor to tube seam tapes are completely normal and part of the assembly process. The tape is folded in half along it's length and then machine stitched along the length about 15mm in from the fold. The whole tape is then glued to the floor sections and tubes in a pre-folded condition, for ease of assembly. Once the glue has set the stitching is cut from between the folded sides and thereby released to take the shape of the assembled parts.
This does leave the stitch holes somewhat visible, especially when the boat is deflated, but does not affect the structure in anyway. This is standard assembly method and we have checked around with other dealers to confirm they have similar assembly evidence, and they do.

I feel somewhat more knowledgeable about SIB construction and will be ready for the water in a week... just in time for it to get really cold!

[therabster]

Yes . Honda seem to be having some real quality problems. Would not recommend to anyone to buy one. I will be posting my problems soon on a future thread.

[Fenlander]

>>>Would not recommend to anyone to buy one

Only fair to indicate why folks might want to avoid Honwave??