Honwave T38 Engine Question

69cmw · 03 April 2023, 18:10

What engines are people using with the above boat? And what do they perform like?

It will be getting used mostly 2 up

Thanks

Fenlander · 03 April 2023, 18:39

You still got that nice Mercury 15hp 2-stroke? That would make a good start to see how it goes before deciding if a 20 was needed/wanted.

69cmw · 03 April 2023, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

You still got that nice Mercury 15hp 2-stroke? That would make a good start to see how it goes before deciding if a 20 was needed/wanted.

Fenlander, I sold that a while back, it was gathering dust and I never used it 🤷

chipko · 03 April 2023, 18:59

If you’re considering one of the current crop of 20hp efi four strokes from Tohatsu, Merc/Mariner, Suzuki etc. then the Suzuki would be my choice on a T38.
Nothing to choose between them on power or reliability but the Suzuki’s lower leg profile and large AV plate is far better suited at resisting the ventilation issues often thrown up with the T38 hull.
Performance wise expect a solid 20/21 knots lightly loaded with 2 up.

69cmw · 03 April 2023, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipko

If you’re considering one of the current crop of 20hp efi four strokes from Tohatsu, Merc/Mariner, Suzuki etc. then the Suzuki would be my choice on a T38.
Nothing to choose between them on power or reliability but the Suzuki’s lower leg profile and large AV plate is far better suited at resisting the ventilation issues often thrown up with the T38 hull.
Performance wise expect a solid 20/21 knots lightly loaded with 2 up.

Cheers Chipko,

You ever tried a 25HP 2 stroke on yours?

I’ve still got my Elling KB 350, not got round to using it yet [emoji15]

chipko · 04 April 2023, 08:50

Alas no, we ran our T38 with a Mariner 20 efi.

A friend has an old Yamaha 25 two stroke on his T38 and that goes really well.

Our Elling is powered by a lightweight 9.8 two stroke but also now have a 15hp two stroke which am keen to try….just waiting for these south easterly’s to ease and the sea to calm down a tad.

Froglet · 04 April 2023, 17:10

I run a Mariner Marathon 25hp 2 stroke on a first gen T38.

It goes well but exposes the limitations of the T38 hull.

On slightly bumpy water it goes like stink, hitting 27knots on a few occasions, but on flat calm the boat suffers from the well documented floor bulge and can struggle to really fly. Might be able to improve that by fiddling with trim.

I’ve never run the boat fast when 2 up, but the engine was able to push it up to about 15knots with 4 adults aboard.

The motor is 52kg which is well within the boat’s limits, but on the edge of what I can comfortably lug around. Hence, I run a little Yamaha 6hp for river trips and the like.

69cmw · 04 April 2023, 21:10

Cheers

69cmw · 04 April 2023, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipko

Our Elling is powered by a lightweight 9.8 two stroke but also now have a 15hp two stroke which am keen to try….just waiting for these south easterly’s to ease and the sea to calm down a tad.

If I keep my Elling your comparison of these 2 engines could make my engine choice for me [emoji848]

PeterPun · 07 April 2023, 12:03

Hi all. New member to the forum and long time lurker. I've used a lot knowledge and experience from forum members during the years, which saved me a lot of errors.
As this discussion is related to the new member of my family - the new t38 ie3, just wanted to post some questions and probably get some answers from experienced honwavers.
Recently switched to t38 from a generic brand 3.3m airdeck sausage keel sib, which i was running with a BF20 engine.
First questions is why Honda motors are always omitted from the list of desired outboards. My BF20 is relatively light at 46kg and runs smooth like butter. It will probably be perfectly suitable for the honwave range of boats without any height modification. Suzuki always pops up at the top, but my impression is that a japanese made hondas will always come before the 20hp mercs/ tohatsu ets motors, that are actually 18hp(13.3 kw).
Second questions is about transom wheels and engine weight. My previous sib was perfectly balanced on the wheels when the bf20 was on the transom (not tilted up). Right now with the added length I think i'll need transom wheels which curve under the transom, in order to get closer to the empty boat center of mass. Has anyone tried such configuration with the current t38 design and can i skip the bow trolley with such bracket design.
About the boat itself. One thing missing from t38 is the safety / relief valve, that I had on the bow chamber on my previous SIB. I don't want to spend my day scratching my head if the midday sun can burst my new boat. Used to always top up all chambers when i depart in the morning, but i've never checked for overpressure during the day. Provided manometer doesn't help either, as it only fuels my anxiety. Will the bow chamber have enough contact with the water when anchored. Are theses sibs purposely built for colder climate. I'll run the boat primarily in Greece and the temps fluctuate from 20 to 40+ during the day.

chipko · 07 April 2023, 18:05

Hi Peter and welcome to the forum.

T38’s are great boats and should go really well with your BF20.

Nothing wrong with Honda motors and in reality not much difference between any of the ‘big six’ manufacturers in terms of power and reliability. Hondas certainly used to be the lightest in class but feel in recent years they’ve lagged behind the opposition in the 15/20hp size and not gone down the battery less efi route following Suzuki’s lightweight 15/20 introduced back in 2012. I do recall Honda having a few issues with plastic cam belt pulleys failing but assume that’s all sorted now.
Interesting you feel the Tohatsu/Merc/Mariners (All under 30hp made by Tohatsu) are only 18hp….not heard that before. Also pretty sure all Tohatsu/Merc/Mariner/Suzuki/Yamaha are still manufactured in Japan.

The Suzuki often gets recommended due to its massive AV plate and lower leg profile being more tolerant of resisting ventilation and splashing issues common on many sibs. Also particularly suited to larger hp air floor sibs, T38’s included, where hull deformation at higher speeds can cause ventilation issues unless floor inflated to the max (or even slightly beyond).

Can’t really help with wheels as our T38 had those pesky trim tabs so didn’t fit transom wheels. With big motors though go for robust large brackets and wheels. We’ve had good results with Trem heavy duty, Seamax and Zodiac Z61110.

Sounds like a good idea to fit a prv, at least to the bow chamber, for peace of mind and use in the Med. One fitted to the bow will also give some protection to the rear tubes. A Leafield A6 prv would be my choice.

Enjoy your new boat. [emoji3]

Steve509926 · 07 April 2023, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterPun

20hp mercs/ tohatsu ets motors, that are actually 18hp(13.3 kw)

I can only assume that your figures are taken from the spec of a pre EFI outboard as Tohatsu/Mercury /Marina EFI are all 14.7kw which equates to 20hp.

I have to be honest and the only reason I didn't consider a Honda was I didn't like the look of the cowl, didn't like the Yamaha or Marina either. Mercury, Suzuki and Tohatsu was more aesthetically pleasing, I know it sounds a bit shallow but when there's only a gnats between them all in terms of weight and performance, it's down to price, availability and does it look good on the back of your sib.

No experience of the curved T38 transom wheels, however after reading lots of reviews I think I'd be trying something else.

I'm with chipko, I think fitting a PRV is a good idea.

PeterPun · 08 April 2023, 05:49

Hi. Interesting issue with the Tohatsu. The "MSF 20e efi" is listed on the Bulgarian market as 13.3kw by the main online retailer fishing-market(dot)com. As it's a 333cc and the Honda is 350cc, I assumed that's the cause, but probably it's been a mislabeled product all along, which influenced my decision to purchase the bf20 .

About the PRV I can't find anyone doing this to their t38. Will contact local honda marine dealer if it's an option to fit one now.
On the transom wheel topic, new t38ie3 doesn't have the trim tabs and regular launch wheels can be fitted, which can reach further under the boat.
Cheers

PeterPun · 08 April 2023, 06:06

Hi,
About the outbound choice, there were several topics on transom length and motor compatibility for the t38, which I assume should be easily solved by matching motor and boat manufacturer, which in this case has been an issue for a while. One annoying aspect of carb motors, like bf20 is that if it's transported on its side, there's always gas seeping out, so each time I have to run the carb dry before disassembly. But yes, in end the decision between similar products is always based on availability, personal choice etc.
Will research more in the prv topic and update

essex · 10 April 2023, 18:43

I can't comment on the bf20 but when I changed from a honda bf6 to tohatsu 9.8 four stroke I chose the tohatsu because it was lighter and cheaper. It is also easier to start cold.
My bf6 never let me down though. I used to ride motorbikes and Honda's had a reputation for the best build quality and reliability.

PeterPun · 11 April 2023, 07:49

In the weekend I started working on installing launching wheels on the t38. First took some measurements of the transom and test fitted the outboard. Transom height is 4-5cm higher than my previous sib, which explains the need for lifting the BF an inch in order to reduce splash. This probably explains the ventilation with some shorter outboards. From the photos it's evident that the anticav plate sits just below the bottom of the boat. Currently I have a hydrofoil installed and I think I'll keep it ,as it used to give a lot of stability.
I'll probably make a new thread for the transom wheel design and installation.

Croolis · 04 May 2023, 19:21

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure on insurance on 6hp and 10hp engines to go on a 3.2m air deck? This isn't something I'm going to do soon and it's easier to get rough numbers from you guys rather go quoting. I'm currently using Noble Insurance on my 2.5hp and two little sailing dinghies.

chipko · 04 May 2023, 19:37

Craftinsure are popular on here. Sibs will come under their Small Boat category, premiums based on value of complete rig so just decide what value and they’ll give an instant quote.

Ballpark: £3000 value about £52 and £4000 value about £60.

https://www.craftinsure.com/#

Croolis · 05 May 2023, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipko

Craftinsure are popular on here. Sibs will come under their Small Boat category, premiums based on value of complete rig so just decide what value and they’ll give an instant quote.

Ballpark: £3000 value about £52 and £4000 value about £60.

https://www.craftinsure.com/#

Cool, yeah thx, similar prices to what I have now, though ^^ this didn't ask about engine size . The lady at Noble Marine warned me while we chatted that price goes up considerably for larger engines, but I guess she may have been talking about yer 20hp and above type stuff.

smallribber · 09 May 2023, 06:03

I have a 9.8 Tohatsu 2 stroke, A yam 15 hp 2 stroke, A merc 15 hp 2 stroke and a 20 hp Merc 4 stroke.

With all of these engines my go to is the Tohatsu 9.8 2 stroke simply for the weight at 26 kg. All of the others can be lifted but they are heavy and can result in injury and back issues. For us the 9.8 pushes the boat fine and 2 up and a small dog and various other stuff will achieve 12 knots which is fast enough for us