Long Live the Sib Review 2

Locozodiac · 10 January 2009, 06:11

After the "Long Live the Sib Review 1" was released some months ago, started working on and experimenting new sib technical updates, found some interesting ones. Have passed them all to the factory, in a technical joint venture between this cracy sibber and them, have finally released a SRD-380 HD (ELE) (Extreme Limited Edition) model, has all the technical updates you can possibly make to any sib to better it’s performance.. Tomarrow morning will be it’s sea trial to evaluate it’s sea capabilities, hope all is OK as expected.

Technical Data:

Brand : Sea Rider Boats
Length : 3.80 Mtr
Fabric : Akron HD
Floor : Aluminum
Engine : Re Jetted, 2 strokes Tohatsu 18 HP.

Technical improvements : At Factory & Workshop

* Bow bag
* Dedicated Tow line
* Rib drain plug (+ zodiac diaphragm)
* Bow gas tank d’ring
* Anchor rope organizer
* Anchor & chain keeper
* Heavy duty aluminum floor panels
* Heavy duty riveted panels
* Longer lateral side joiners
* Side joiners ends, reinforcing patches
* Straight transom, middle raised to 40.5 Cm height.
* Extended lateral gas hose (bow gas tank to engine)
* Heavy duty central floor protector (one piece bow to transom)
* Transom & bow hanging rings
* Sun canopy
* Tiny tach Install

Happy Sibbing

Locozodiac · 13 January 2009, 05:36

The sea trial ended as expected, although the sea was calm but upper water was a complete disorder, bit chopy, not the best for perfect & smooth full wot sea trial. Because of this condition, water was swirling light against tubes, so trim ange had to be placed on 3rd hole out transom to remedy this situation. This 380 sib is much larger than previous owned 360 sib, but correctly balanced was a great water performer.

To avoid extreme bow rock, had to place myself near middle sib with extended arm to throttle, other mate near front seat, nevertheless was still rocking a bit. To stop this issue, which accesories would you go for ?

1-Place Doel Fins on Anticav Plate
2-Place Trim Tabs on Transom
3-Buy a tiller bar extension and move weight a bit towars bow
4-Combo pack, tiller extension + doel fins
5-Combo pack, tiller extension + trim tabs

Keep in mind that most of the time the sib will only have a 2 mate crew, all weight, gas tank, anchor, etc are tied to bow to compensate bow rock. What would be your thoughts, ideas to stop rocking issues.

Happy Sibbing

John Kennett · 13 January 2009, 11:16

Any of those might do it.

Which is the cheapest and easiest to try? I'd go with that option first!

Locozodiac · 13 January 2009, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Any of those might do it.

Which is the cheapest and easiest to try? I'd go with that option first!

None of these accesories are availabl down here, must be imported mainly from USA, will try doel fin, one single piece, compact version. Have the 2 piece version, but don't like very much. Thanks.

Happy Sibbing

PeterM · 13 January 2009, 16:42

Surely its better to start off with a tiller extension ?- if it doesnt work you can sell it & you wont have drilled holes in the engine to find out ? With doelfins you cant take them off easily if you have a lot of weight in the bow.

I'd say get them if you had electric trim ( i have this & they work well for me) that alllwed you to adjust the boat while in the move, but depending on the speed they could end up all wrong for the speed you want to run at and the trim of the engine , meaning you have to stop & adjust the engine to suit.

kelson · 13 January 2009, 19:22

I had a Doelfin on my nissan 40 installed on my mk2 zodiac. It worked fairly well, but I had to really have the engine tilted a lot to keep the bow down at low speeds. Definitely needed tilt adjustment at higher speeds. Caught kelp like mad! I tried Lifters, large plastic trim tabs available on e-bay. They worked great, but I broke them twice. The manufacturer said no one else was having that problem and replaced them once. Was the problem my install? Turbulence from the speed tubes (old boat with speed tubes on the floor rather than out on the tubes)? Launching over waves? I can't say. They gave the best performance and I would definitely try them on a boat with less hp. I replaced them with smart tabs. The small self adjusting trim tabs work well, but don't get me on a plane as quickly as the Lifters did at low speeds. Have not come off the boat... Adding a small pulley, some line and a jam cleat makes it easy to pull the smart tabs up and out of the way for trailering and beaching. Getting the weight forward in the boat helped a lot so the tiller extension is probably a good investment, but the smart tabs are great and they don't have to be adjusted or catch kelp. If I forget to put them down after launching the difference is immediately noticeable.

Locozodiac · 13 January 2009, 21:57

Kelson, you are right with respect to doel fins, definitely we'll be a kelp & garbage collector, have used them before, but not that big deal when planing, preffer to move crew from middle towars bow, go full throttle, once on plane, reduce to 3/4, don't like either drilling holes to cav plate. Lifters are to much space demanding and vey large, look weird on back transom.

Is it possible to post pics regarding "Adding a small pulley, some line and a jam cleat makes it easy to pull the smart tabs up and out of the way for trailering and beaching", this 380 sib is permanently on top of a trailer, launching is made by slings hooked to a electric winch directly to ocean.

Seems only 2 options left, trim tabs and tiller extension, will search Defender USA to inquire prices for both issues.

Do trim tabs bother, slows down when going throlling, would you still install them if in the need to cruise at different speeds, trolling, medium, full wot, or no, they are desing to go medium to full throttle, in which case the tiller extension would be the last tech alternative. Doesn't bother at all, no kelp catcher, nothing to break just move mates a bit toward bow and...

Happy Sibbing

kelson · 13 January 2009, 23:06

Those big honkin lifters really did keep the boat level and sure did pop it on a plane at low speeds. Goofy looking? Yes.

The smart tabs have a gas actuator, so the tab angle automatically varies. Nice in the inflatable because my speed is up and down so much and I don't have to adjust them all the time like powered tabs. They do help flatten out the ride at low speeds, they are a big improvement at medium speeds, they definitely help with bow rise on full throttle starts and they haven't impacted my top end speed very much. Maybe 1 to 2 mph, hard to actually match loads and conditions to accurately gauge the small decrease. I think they are helpful all the way around. I launch off a trailer and the bunk rails need to extend past the transom to properly support it. If the trim tabs couldn't be raised they would get hit by the rails as I load the boat from the water. I also beach my boat a lot and I wouldn't want the tabs to dig in as the boat sits on the shore. I used to pull my lifters, sort of a pain. I will include a copy of a page from the install instructions. It would certainly be possible to just attach a line to the tab and pull it through a cleat, but having the line fastened at the cleat and using the pulley gives you mechanical advantage and makes the whole thing work easily. The locking v cleat I bought had a hole included to affix the line end. My cleat is on the back of the transom rather than the top. I haven't had any issues with the line coming free. I did wrap a little rubber tape around the d ring on the pulley and the bottom of the plastic ball so they don't rattle. In the pic in my last post that is the little strips of yellow you can see at the cleat and pulley. The tabs are stainless, but they do recommend adding a zinc if you run in saltwater, so I did that too. I think they sell a plastic version now. Getting everything right cost some coin, but it has been worth it. Let me know if you have any other questions, I hope the image helps. You are so right about getting the weight forward, since I wedged an aluminum fuel tank and 60 pound AGM battery under my bench/console the boat handles much better. Your set up looks like a lot of fun and I hope you'll post pics from your next excursion.

Locozodiac · 14 January 2009, 21:42

Hola Keson

Thanks for your post, read a few months ago everything related to Nauticus Trim Tabs, the only problem I see with them is this 380 sib lives on a trailer, slings are placed under lower transom and passed throught handles for in/out water operation. When sib is stationary on water, tabs will tend to go down and maybe will difficult the hand sling fitting operation when lifting the sib out of water and placing the sib back to it's trailer.

Have solved the water swirling issue in both tubes, was so enthusiastic about putting this new sib into operation that missed something very important. Pics will describe better the tech problem encounterd and how simply was solved.

1-Engine supports mounting exterior rim pad, varying trim angle.
2-Filed rim to opt pad parallel position.
3-Ideal Height & mootor angle achieved in second hole out transom.

Have moved anchor & rope box from bow to transom, will have extra space available for my crew mate to move a bit upwards towards front bench position, with tank on bow and mate following will help balance better the sib and probably solve the bow rock issue forever. Now Tohatsu engines is 40 mm just in middle of 30 to 50 mm factory recommended parameters, including 90ºangle. Friday early morning will test again on calm waters, surely will perform much better as did on last test, will see if in the need to buy a tiller extension. Thanks all for their tech imput.

Happy Sibbing

kelson · 15 January 2009, 16:39

Adding the line, pulley and cleat keeps those smart tabs up and out of the way when stationary. I don't think that they would tend to snag your bridle strap. The gas actuator compresses quite a bit and the tabs trailing edge is higher than the boat bottom when raised. It cost a little more to rig the smart tabs for beach/store use, but the addition is very convenient. Just let out the line when you are ready to motor off and pull it in before deploying your straps. The line and pulley don't need any adjustment while the boat is in normal use. The whole set up ran me about $200 US. The Doelfin required too much tilt adjustment, even with power tilt. Really nice labeled images of your motor mount plate modifications. Great attention to detail. I hope you will post some pics of the boat in use, would really like to see a little of where you boat in Peru... has me dreaming of adventure!

Locozodiac · 15 January 2009, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelson

Adding the line, pulley and cleat keeps those smart tabs up and out of the way when stationary. I don't think that they would tend to snag your bridle strap. The gas actuator compresses quite a bit and the tabs trailing edge is higher than the boat bottom when raised. It cost a little more to rig the smart tabs for beach/store use, but the addition is very convenient. Just let out the line when you are ready to motor off and pull it in before deploying your straps. The line and pulley don't need any adjustment while the boat is in normal use. The whole set up ran me about $200 US. The Doelfin required too much tilt adjustment, even with power tilt. Really nice labeled images of your motor mount plate modifications. Great attention to detail. I hope you will post some pics of the boat in use, would really like to see a little of where you boat in Peru... has me dreaming of adventure!

Hola Kelson

If you have time and a good digital camera would like to see real pictures of the way trim tab set up works on your sib, its kind of difficult to understand you the way you explain it in words, as for you, is a simple everyday matter. Completely new to trim tab configurations. The motor plate is perfect aligned, as it should have been, tomarrow is D day. Besides great attention to perfect details, I'm a real maniac of boating perfection! Will post some pics from week end. Thanks.

Happy Sibbing

kelson · 16 January 2009, 17:00

Locozodiac,
It is always hard to check out equipment when you can't turn it over in your hands! I think what may be confusing to you is the actual method of operation for a smart tab. The line and pulley arrangement is not necessary for the underway use at all. Many solid hull boats use them and never need to take them up so they don't add the line and pulley arrangement at all. At low speeds the gas actuator holds the tabs in their lowered position. As you speed up the gas actuator compresses and the tab raises. As you motor along you can look over the transom and see the tabs automatically adjusting to the pressure of the water flow and surface conditions. Even with my boat weighted properly there is a big difference in handling and bow rise when the tabs are in use. If I forget to release the tabs it is instantly apparent when I move the boat on the water.

The line, pulley and cleat are only used to raise the tab when beaching or loading. It is an add on set up that does not come in the smart tab package. The tabs are also not that large. I don't think you would have much problem sliding your sling under the boat and avoiding the raised tabs, but that is for you to decide! I don't want to sound like an ad for Nautica, but the smart tabs are great on smaller vessels. Powered tabs are too complicated and require the operator to adjust them as conditions or speed changes. The Doelfin required me to make tilt changes a lot too. The smart tabs do a great job of automatically adjusting. The way you choose to set up the actuator on the tab plate changes the amount of resistance from the gas actuator, so you can adjust the amount of pressure it takes to move the tab plate up to fit your needs. Once the actuator is installed it is all automatic. Just to be clear, the pulley and line are not used to adjust the tabs position while underway. I hope my description helps. I am also attaching a few pics of the tabs.
The first picture is looking down on the tab.

The second image is of the tab in it's downward position. The line and pulley are not under tension at all. Movement of the tab in the water would be up and down with changes in pressure on the tab.

The third image shows the tab in the up position. The line and pulley arrangement have been pulled tight and the gas actuator is compressed. The tab will stay in this position until the line is released from the cleat.

If this still isn't clear, no stress. Let me know and I'll give it another try.

Locozodiac · 16 January 2009, 23:44

Hola Kelson

Plainly understand how Nauticus trim tab works, didn't understand the way you hold the small rope to compress the gas actuator, one photo better than one thousand words, got the idea clear, can you post close-up photos of the way the pulley is atached to the gas actuator, and to what boat part is the rope secured to ?

The second test was much better than last one, driver was in sib middle, copilot mate passing bow front seat, after gas tank, still a very small water swirling on end cones, tried 3rd hole out transom, perfect, this is the hole if panning to use the sib with just 2 mates, will need a tiller extension, tried 2 plastic ones, horrible and dangerous as they tend to bend to much, are the trolling type, no good for speeding.

Will order a original Tohatsu tiller extension, much better crafted, the sib/engine configuration marked 24.8 knots on a 1/2 kilometer wot run under flat and perfect sea conditions. I think it's a nice speed for a sib with just a 18 HP engine.

Happy Sibbing

kelson · 17 January 2009, 17:31

Happy to provide more specific information. The first picture shows the pulley attachment to the tab bracket from the front. The second image is from the side. The pulley is attached by a d ring and I stretched some yellow rubber tape around the d ring to keep it from rattling.

The third image is of the v cleat where I bolted it to the back of my transom. You can see the fixed line end passes through the cleat body and is knotted. My transom tilts back at an angle. I was worried that placing the cleat on the transom back would make the angle on the line from the pulley pop the line out of the cleat. I thought about adding a wedge under the cleat, but the angle on the line has not been an issue at all.

Twenty four knots with an 18 hp sounds great to me. Wish I was going out today. Off to my Mother in laws house... oh well. Post more pics!

Locozodiac · 18 January 2009, 21:34

Kelson,

Thanks for the close-up pics, now have the idea how they are fixed to Nauticus trim tabs, would like to test a original Tohatsu tiller extension, you have 2 models: 0.8 & 1.0 mt. lenght sizes, waiting for a price quote, definitely a lot cheaper and much easier to install than trim tabs.

We are beginning 2009 summer, wanted to have the sig/engine configuration at it's best, so a fine advance & carb timing has been made to have a fast throttle response, made a 30 nautical mile round cruise at 3/4 throttle to Palomino Islands, home island of hundreds of sea lions. The 380 performed wonderful with the new factory & worshop tech updates, had a exciting day cruising and snorkeling with very friendly sea lions. Seems they are pleased and very curious to be visited by strangers in colorful boats. Some pics to share.

Happy Sibbing