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09 August 2020, 15:17
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#21
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Radlett
Boat name: not yet purchased
Make: na
Length: 3m +
Engine: na
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefule
Have you changed your gearbox oil?
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I just bought it but from what I gather it has never had any maintenance in 5 years. Thanks!
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09 August 2020, 20:01
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#22
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Lincolnshire
Boat name: Mousetrap
Make: Zodiac Cadet 310S
Length: 3m +
Engine: Mariner 4 stroke 9.9
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmichael
I just bought it but from what I gather it has never had any maintenance in 5 years. Thanks!
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Gear box lubricant: fairly easy if you have some sort of a stand you can mount the engine on. Ideally a tub of water to run the engine to warm in first.
Check the manual and get the quantity of the right grade of lubricant.
I have only done this job on my smaller engine, so check the details rather than relying on this post, but here's the gist of it:
All you need is a tube of lubricant and a large flat blade screwdriver, and some old rag.
There are two screw plugs, one above the other, very low down on the engine leg. Undo the bottom one then the top one. Lubricant will trickle out.
When it's all run out, cut the nozzle of the lubricant tube to the right diameter and push it into the lower hole. Now squeeze gently but firmly until lubricant comes out of the top hole. Once there are no bubbles and you're sure it's full, leave the nozzle in the bottom hole and put the plug back in the top.
Now you can remove the nozzle from the bottom hole. You will have time to put the lower plug in before any significant amount of lubricant seeps out.
Check both plugs are in tightly and wipe clean.
The gear box converts the vertical rotation of the drive shaft that goes down the leg of the engine into the horizontal rotation of the propellor. There is also a sliding clutch which (compared to a car) is a very crude mechanism. If there is no lubricant, or if water has seeped in and contaminated the lubricant, the gear box could become noisy and put a load on the idling engine.
Other easy things to check without any technical knowledge or equipment:
1) Does your engine have the right grade and length of spark plugs? I recently bought a 2nd hand engine and all of my problems were that I had failed to spot that the previous owner had put the wrong size of plugs in.
2) Are the plugs clean, correctly gapped, with no sign of discolouration of the insulator?
3) Is there any corrosion in the contacts inside the plug caps? This can be cleaned with contact cleaner and a small wire brush or a small rolled tube of sandpaper.
4) Are you using fresh fuel?
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09 August 2020, 21:23
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#23
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Member
Country: USA
Town: NorCal
Boat name: SHARKY
Make: AB
Length: 4m +
Engine: Honda BF75 & BF5
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,093
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Information can be hard to get across so bear with us we try to help. OP you are doing a great job answering questions, and if you are willing to tackle a few simple jobs you will learn about your engine and can most likely fix it yourself. It will require a few tools though, and possibly an owners manual which I would highly recommend getting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmichael
It works on idle but when engaging the forward gear it works for short while then makes a funny mechanical noise as though something is loose in the engine and then it just dies.
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There is a possibility what you are hearing is the backglash of the gears as it dies. In the video it does sound a little metalicky and if you video again, get in the boat a little closer to the engine out of the wind if possible, and put the boat in gear.
Clear this up please as I may have missed it. Does the engine go into gear and have decent power for at least 20 seconds? Could the boat get on plane? More interested in off idle both in gear and out of gear revving. A garbage can filled with water would allow forward gear to be used. Water may spray everywhere though if revved in gear, so you're warned.
The engine cover getting warm would be okay but not HOT! Can you touch the tell tail without burning yourself? I would still be concerned with it overheating. If it were me I would drop the lower unit and inspect the impeller, and since it is a minimum of 5 years old I would change it, but it could be put back together temporarily until it is running properly. Changing the gear oil is a good maintenance item, but as long as it has oil which can be determined by pulling the top plug and either looking in, or putting an allen key (hex key) as a dipstick into the hole to see what the oil level is. If there is oil, leave it for now. Milky oil means water which is bad. (I have a cheapish special tube with a fitting that attaches to the lower unit tube of oil, and screws into the bottom hole of the lower unit. Makes filling the leg really easy.)
My best guess is the carb is the issue. Spray in a small shot of some carb cleaner and see if it starts for a couple of seconds after it dies. If it starts rebuild the carb. If it doesn't start it is either flooding or there is an ignition problem. The carb will be an easy one clean too. Mostly it just needs to be blown out with compressed air. The first thing I would do after the carb spray test is pull the float bowl off and visually inspect for debris. Any debris inside is bad.
As stated above the newer fuels are hard on rubber fuel lines and can cause issues. Replacement at some point is going to be in order. I might have missed it, but is the fuel primer bulb getting hard? If not either the bulb is failing or the fuel is going past the carbs float seat and leaking into the engine. This would cause a flood. To clear a flood you need to hold the carb wide open throttle and pull the starter cord at least 10 times. If flooded it will try to start, then start and rev quickly so be ready to let off the throttle.
An ultra clear picture of the spark plugs current condition could tell whether it is running lean or rich. Plus as suggested the correct plugs.
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09 August 2020, 23:19
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#24
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Radlett
Boat name: not yet purchased
Make: na
Length: 3m +
Engine: na
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefule
Gear box lubricant: fairly easy if you have some sort of a stand you can mount the engine on. Ideally a tub of water to run the engine to warm in first.
Check the manual and get the quantity of the right grade of lubricant.
I have only done this job on my smaller engine, so check the details rather than relying on this post, but here's the gist of it:
All you need is a tube of lubricant and a large flat blade screwdriver, and some old rag.
There are two screw plugs, one above the other, very low down on the engine leg. Undo the bottom one then the top one. Lubricant will trickle out.
When it's all run out, cut the nozzle of the lubricant tube to the right diameter and push it into the lower hole. Now squeeze gently but firmly until lubricant comes out of the top hole. Once there are no bubbles and you're sure it's full, leave the nozzle in the bottom hole and put the plug back in the top.
Now you can remove the nozzle from the bottom hole. You will have time to put the lower plug in before any significant amount of lubricant seeps out.
Check both plugs are in tightly and wipe clean.
The gear box converts the vertical rotation of the drive shaft that goes down the leg of the engine into the horizontal rotation of the propellor. There is also a sliding clutch which (compared to a car) is a very crude mechanism. If there is no lubricant, or if water has seeped in and contaminated the lubricant, the gear box could become noisy and put a load on the idling engine.
Other easy things to check without any technical knowledge or equipment:
1) Does your engine have the right grade and length of spark plugs? I recently bought a 2nd hand engine and all of my problems were that I had failed to spot that the previous owner had put the wrong size of plugs in.
Not sure about this but they were not changed and the previous owner said he never had an issue with the motor. But will remove and take some pics.
2) Are the plugs clean, correctly gapped, with no sign of discolouration of the insulator?
They looked clean and according to the mechanic were sound but again neither of us know about boat spark plugs so will take some pics
3) Is there any corrosion in the contacts inside the plug caps? This can be cleaned with contact cleaner and a small wire brush or a small rolled tube of sandpaper.
I need to check this
4) Are you using fresh fuel?
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Ahhh there was some fuel left in the tank before I filled it. Possibly 1 litre
I can't get over how generous you all are in assisting me with this issue. I am also currently working full time so will have to go through all the posts very carefully out of working hours to make sure I understand everything. By the sounds of it, if I take it to Barnet outboard mechanic it would end up being quite costly. I have answered in red the 4 questions Thank you!
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09 August 2020, 23:28
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#25
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Radlett
Boat name: not yet purchased
Make: na
Length: 3m +
Engine: na
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_C
Information can be hard to get across so bear with us we try to help. OP you are doing a great job answering questions, and if you are willing to tackle a few simple jobs you will learn about your engine and can most likely fix it yourself. It will require a few tools though, and possibly an owners manual which I would highly recommend getting.
Thank you Peter makes perfect sense
There is a possibility what you are hearing is the backglash of the gears as it dies. In the video it does sound a little metalicky and if you video again, get in the boat a little closer to the engine out of the wind if possible, and put the boat in gear.
I wont be able to get it on the boat again until fixed
Clear this up please as I may have missed it. Does the engine go into gear and have decent power for at least 20 seconds?
yes Could the boat get on plane? Yes it did during the first 20 mins down the river and after about half a mile it stopped. More interested in off idle both in gear and out of gear revving. no revving. A garbage can filled with water would allow forward gear to be used. Water may spray everywhere though if revved in gear, so you're warned. ok thanks!
The engine cover getting warm would be okay but not HOT! Can you touch the tell tail without burning yourself? not sure I would still be concerned with it overheating. If it were me I would drop the lower unit and inspect the impeller, Is that lower unit the whole bottom part which is under water>? and since it is a minimum of 5 years old I would change it, (change the propeller?) but it could be put back together temporarily until it is running properly. Changing the gear oil is a good maintenance item, but as long as it has oil which can be determined by pulling the top plug and either looking in, or putting an allen key (hex key) as a dipstick into the hole to see what the oil level is. If there is oil, leave it for now. Milky oil means water which is bad. (I have a cheapish special tube with a fitting that attaches to the lower unit tube of oil, and screws into the bottom hole of the lower unit. Makes filling the leg really easy.) okay noted
My best guess is the carb is the issue. Spray in a small shot of some carb cleaner and see if it starts for a couple of seconds after it dies. If it starts rebuild the carb. If it doesn't start it is either flooding or there is an ignition problem. The carb will be an easy one clean too. Mostly it just needs to be blown out with compressed air. The first thing I would do after the carb spray test is pull the float bowl off and visually inspect for debris. Any debris inside is bad. What does the float bowl look like?
As stated above the newer fuels are hard on rubber fuel lines and can cause issues. Replacement at some point is going to be in order. I might have missed it, but is the fuel primer bulb getting hard? yes If not either the bulb is failing or the fuel is going past the carbs float seat and leaking into the engine. This would cause a flood. To clear a flood you need to hold the carb wide open throttle and pull the starter cord at least 10 times. If flooded it will try to start, then start and rev quickly so be ready to let off the throttle. very useful info I think there may have been some flooding
An ultra clear picture of the spark plugs current condition could tell whether it is running lean or rich. Plus as suggested the correct plugs.
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ok will send but please be patient as am very busy on day job at present.
Thanks for this amazing support like no other forum I have been on! answered questions between lines.
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10 August 2020, 05:18
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#26
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Member
Country: USA
Town: NorCal
Boat name: SHARKY
Make: AB
Length: 4m +
Engine: Honda BF75 & BF5
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmichael
Ahhh there was some fuel left in the tank before I filled it. Possibly 1 litre
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Got an older vehicle with over half a tank full to dump the fuel into? Blending with more fuel is better. Usually your nose can pick off really bad gas easily. If so change the fuel to fresh, and inspect the fuel tank before refilling it. Another option is to just run from another gas tank if you have two. At home you can run from most anything the fuel line fits into.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmichael
I can't get over how generous you all are in assisting me with this issue.
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Pay it forward in life, someone else can then appreciate your help
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmichael
Thanks for this amazing support like no other forum I have been on!
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Actually the majority of forums the world over are full of people willing to help. Heck I have flown to strange places, been picked up at the airport by people I had never spoken a word too, and treated like a close friend Just ignore the few jerkos you are bound to run into.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmichael
Is that lower unit the whole bottom part which is under water>?
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Yes. Should come off with 4-5 bolts and some wiggling of shifter rods etc. You need to watch a youtube video first. Lower unit can offen be referred to as the "leg" too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmichael
(change the propeller?)
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I had written impeller which is what pumps the water into the engine. It is time to get a visual on it after you stating the motor ran great for 20 minutes. It could be overheating and *might* have a warning buzzer, but I can't imagine that motor just shutting down on purpose. Still after 5 years the impeller needs to be changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmichael
What does the float bowl look like?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmichael
very useful info I think there may have been some flooding
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Why do you say that? Did you smell fuel strongly when it wouldn't restart? Fuel smell usually does mean flooded.
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10 August 2020, 07:05
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#27
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Radlett
Boat name: not yet purchased
Make: na
Length: 3m +
Engine: na
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 41
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Great instructions
Thanks John
Lots to go by. And plenty to do on this motor. My kids will have to wait a few more weekends before enjoying the boat I will keep you posted but due to long work hours it may take a few days. Thanks
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10 August 2020, 11:14
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#28
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RIBnet admin team
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,911
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If you are going to DIY this well worthwhile getting some order into the checks. Starting with fault finding and then you could eventually move onto routine maintenance items not covered during the fault find. So if you were dropping it off here my process would be along these lines...
I have never known a portable outboard gearbox seize and cause an engine to stop... even when half full of water. But to get that possibility out of the way do as mentioned above and through the top level plug near/above the prop just put something in that will allow you to see if the oil is up to level and its colour... ideally golden or a bit darker but not creamy white/yellow. What I have here is a syringe with thin tube on the end and I draw a bit of gear oil into that from the level hole for a quick visual check and squirt back in.
Re overheating when we used the same model we owned on a hot day the combination of sun and the fact the cowl fits quite close to the engine I'd say the cowl was more hot than warm. Also if you have a constant jet of water from the tell tale (apart from the first couple of seconds when started), and bearing in mind the engine is a modern one with low use so shouldn't have choked engine waterways , I'd not be looking for cooling issues just yet.
So with the above items set aside for now I'd be getting it in a wheelie bin for a test run. Wheelie bin as you'll need to try it in gear and that will empty a smaller bucket in seconds. I would also buy yourself a small universal tach rev/hour counter. Always useful but in this case invaluable to see what idle speed you have.
This is my favoured type I've found better than the sub £10 ones...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-Ta...EAAOSwe-Rei1Ac
Set the fuel tank up (vent open!) connected to OB and see if the primer goes hard after several pumps. Then pop the hose off where it connects to the fuel pump on the back of the engine and see if squeezing the primer causes fuel to squirt out. Assuming so reconnect and take the hose off the pump outlet (the one that goes to the carb) and pull the engine over briskly to see if the pump is delivering a good squirt of fuel. Assuming so reconnect.
As it's a simple check pop the spark plugs out and check they look reasonable. Check/set the gaps and wash off in petrol if oily then dry and replace. If they look at all fouled with carbon/deposits get new ones for the future.
Now start engine, put the choke in as soon as it will run without and allow to warm up at idle. This particular engine model can take way longer than most to warm up. Hopefully you have the tach rev counter to see what its idle revs are... if it will idle for say 5-10mins without stopping that's a good start. Should be about 1000rpm idle out of gear.
Once warm push in the big plastic button on the left side as you face the engine which will disengage the tiller gear engagement. Now raise the revs a few times both gradually and snapping the throttle open. Hold the revs at say 2000rpm for 30 sec. Do any of these things cause it to hesitate or stop? If so can that be lessened by pulling the choke out a bit? Do you hear any nasty mechanical noises at any time?
Now do the same tests without pushing the button in so it goes in gear as soon as you raise above idle. Does anything cause it to hesitate or stop? With it in gear but back to the idle position what is it's in gear idle speed, this should be 900rpm by spec but often 950rpm is better to avoid stalls when going into gear. Again any nasty mechanical noises (apart from the slight gear noise as it engages).
Assuming it's still going leave it at about 1500rpm for some minutes (still in gear), does it stay running?
During all the above does the tell tale stay a constant good jet?
And if you've got this far, or however far before finding problems, report back
Additionally have a read of my post #58 in this thread from when I had the same engine. Similar troubles and it turned out to be the carb which is the way Peter C is leaning too.
https://www.rib.net/forum/f36/marine...e-79281-2.html
So if the engine stalls or misfires during any of the above tests I'd be looking to strip the carb. If you see the image of the jets and emulsion tubes in that post #58 you can see the longer tube has 4 small holes visible. These are repeated in 3 other places you can't see so there are 16 tiny holes to clear with carb spray and in my case I used thin copper wire for the harder deposits. It is actually advised not to poke jets through in case you enlarge them and mess up the mixture but if you use soft wire with care it's OK.
If this all seems a bit too much then I'd phone Barnet Marine and get a quote for a basic engine/g.box oil/cooling impeller change, new plugs and a carb clean.
One extra I must throw in the mix... these outboards have a timing belt and it's usually advised to change at the 4/5yr point so you may want to consider this too.
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10 August 2020, 21:15
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#29
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Radlett
Boat name: not yet purchased
Make: na
Length: 3m +
Engine: na
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 41
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Many thanks for this Fenlander I will be reading it carefully later on as just got in from a 12 hour shift. But also want to share the news that I contacted Barnet repair shop and also Ely repair shop this afternoon and the story is the same. Such a backlog of work that I wouldn't be able to get seen to until October and may also encounter similar issues ordering spares for the outboard!! I wish one of you kind folk lived on my doorstep to help move this project along a bit faster. I don't really want to wait until next year to take the boys on the river.
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10 August 2020, 21:52
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#30
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Radlett
Boat name: not yet purchased
Make: na
Length: 3m +
Engine: na
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 41
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"Now do the same tests without pushing the button in so it goes in gear as soon as you raise above idle. Does anything cause it to hesitate or stop? With it in gear but back to the idle position what is it's in gear idle speed, this should be 900rpm by spec but often 950rpm is better to avoid stalls when going into gear. Again any nasty mechanical noises (apart from the slight gear noise as it engages)."
Absolutely fool proof instructions Fenlander. Massive thanks! So this is indeed curious as I am not sure I know which button you refer to. Is it the one that says Throttle? Its odd because there was something going on with this button and a click for the engine to start working again after it had stalled. Of course I didn't have a clue as to what any of the buttons did other than by trial and error. There is also a kill switch (chord) which was supposed to be attached to it but I couldn't remember where it clipped on.
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10 August 2020, 22:58
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#31
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Lincolnshire
Boat name: Mousetrap
Make: Zodiac Cadet 310S
Length: 3m +
Engine: Mariner 4 stroke 9.9
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmichael
"Now do the same tests without pushing the button in so it goes in gear as soon as you raise above idle. Does anything cause it to hesitate or stop? With it in gear but back to the idle position what is it's in gear idle speed, this should be 900rpm by spec but often 950rpm is better to avoid stalls when going into gear. Again any nasty mechanical noises (apart from the slight gear noise as it engages)."
Absolutely fool proof instructions Fenlander. Massive thanks! So this is indeed curious as I am not sure I know which button you refer to. Is it the one that says Throttle? Its odd because there was something going on with this button and a click for the engine to start working again after it had stalled. Of course I didn't have a clue as to what any of the buttons did other than by trial and error. There is also a kill switch (chord) which was supposed to be attached to it but I couldn't remember where it clipped on.
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That button is so that you can use the throttle without turning the prop. One useful example is at the end of a trip: disconnect the fuel line and run the carb dry. This can take several minutes at idle, but is faster if you give it a few revs.
The kill cord: look on the engine on the side facing the boat for an up/down on/off switch. The kill cord has an elongated ring at one end. Slip that over the on off switch when it is in the "off" position. Now turn the switch to "on". Attach the other end of the cord to yourself. Now if you fall overboard, the elongated ring pulls the on/off switch into the "off" position and kills the engine.
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10 August 2020, 23:05
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#32
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RIBnet admin team
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,911
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Edit: Great minds and all that Mike!
Ely repair shop... you mean Soham? They are a real marmite place for folks on here just be aware. I'm amazed at the long lead times for service/repair work there and Barnet boys.
Ever get up the A1 to the Huntingdon area?
Re the kill cord. It goes on the kill switch. You switch the switch to off position and then trap the plastic loop under the switch toggle as it goes to the on position as in the image of the one I had below.
I don't remember what they labelled the gearchange cut out button but it's at the top of the lower cowl as you face the outboard and on the left. Big plastic button...can't miss it. See image below.
So bit of background. Outboards usually had their F-N-R lever on the side of the motor until Mercury/Mariner started in the 1990s fitting the combined throttle/gear tiller as you have. But one downside was the lack of ability to rev the engine without going into gear meaning off you shot. So in the 2000s they added the cut out button so you could push that in prior to raising revs above idle and it would cut out the gearchange and allow the engine to rev in neutral. Then when you brought the throttle and revs back to idle the button would pop back out with a click and the normal gears operation would resume.
Did you get an operators manual with the engine?
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11 August 2020, 08:44
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#33
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Radlett
Boat name: not yet purchased
Make: na
Length: 3m +
Engine: na
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefule
That button is so that you can use the throttle without turning the prop. One useful example is at the end of a trip: disconnect the fuel line and run the carb dry. This can take several minutes at idle, but is faster if you give it a few revs.
The kill cord: look on the engine on the side facing the boat for an up/down on/off switch. The kill cord has an elongated ring at one end. Slip that over the on off switch when it is in the "off" position. Now turn the switch to "on". Attach the other end of the cord to yourself. Now if you fall overboard, the elongated ring pulls the on/off switch into the "off" position and kills the engine.
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Thanks Mike I hope to work on it this weekend.
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11 August 2020, 08:54
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#34
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Radlett
Boat name: not yet purchased
Make: na
Length: 3m +
Engine: na
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenlander
Edit: Great minds and all that Mike!
Ely repair shop... you mean Soham? They are a real marmite place for folks on here just be aware. I'm amazed at the long lead times for service/repair work there and Barnet boys.
Ever get up the A1 to the Huntingdon area?
Re the kill cord. It goes on the kill switch. You switch the switch to off position and then trap the plastic loop under the switch toggle as it goes to the on position as in the image of the one I had below.
I don't remember what they labelled the gearchange cut out button but it's at the top of the lower cowl as you face the outboard and on the left. Big plastic button...can't miss it. See image below.
So bit of background. Outboards usually had their F-N-R lever on the side of the motor until Mercury/Mariner started in the 1990s fitting the combined throttle/gear tiller as you have. But one downside was the lack of ability to rev the engine without going into gear meaning off you shot. So in the 2000s they added the cut out button so you could push that in prior to raising revs above idle and it would cut out the gearchange and allow the engine to rev in neutral. Then when you brought the throttle and revs back to idle the button would pop back out with a click and the normal gears operation would resume.
Did you get an operators manual with the engine?
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Feeling utterly spoiled here but can't complain as there is a learning curve.
I don't have an owners manual but perhaps I can find a pdf online or buy one from ebay? Is there a repair shop in Huntingdon? I skimmed over the post this morning as have to dash to work but will spend more time on it tonight. Complex little motor isn't it.
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11 August 2020, 10:15
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#35
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RIBnet admin team
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,911
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Not sure if this link will work but it's the pdf manual. Note it's for the Mercury version but apart from cowl colour/logos they are the same motor. The only thing to note is depending on age you may or may not have a starting primer squeezy button... they deleted that from later engines.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Ikjo8fYPPzskqF
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12 August 2020, 01:04
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#36
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RIBnet admin team
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,911
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Hmm seems that link only worked for me 5mins after posting but doesn't now... anyway it is the top return if you Google... 8/9.9 & 9.9 Bigfoot 4-Stroke - Brunswick Marine
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12 August 2020, 06:26
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#37
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Radlett
Boat name: not yet purchased
Make: na
Length: 3m +
Engine: na
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenlander
Not sure if this link will work but it's the pdf manual. Note it's for the Mercury version but apart from cowl colour/logos they are the same motor. The only thing to note is depending on age you may or may not have a starting primer squeezy button... they deleted that from later engines.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Ikjo8fYPPzskqF
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Yes it did thank you I have downloaded it and read the bulk of it. If I had searched for that at the outset I could have saved you all a load of questions
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20 September 2020, 18:09
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#38
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RIBnet admin team
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,911
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Well for once the stars aligned to enable David to drop his outboard off here as I was intrigued by the combination of symptoms. They included stopping when put in gear, odd engine or gearbox noises, problems restarting, possibly running a bit hot and a tilt mechanism working in a weird way.
By chance in post #28 I'd mentioned how I'd go about a diagnosis and I broadly followed that to quickly eliminate the unlikely and concentrate on the likely. Findings over the next few posts... might help someone searching in the future.
Initial thoughts a tidy looking motor that you'd think was problem free.
First a quick cold compression test... OK and even on both cylinders. I changed the oil which was a bit aged but free of metallic particles. So I was fairly happy to eliminate significant engine issues or catastrophic overheating damage.
To address the extreme possibility the gearbox could be failing and locking up causing the engine to stall I drained off then replaced the oil which was just normally aged with no water or metallic particles. Good news.
The spark plugs were a bit sooty by my judgement for a modern 4-stroke so I replaced those.
I then turned my attention to the fuel supply and checked/tested right from the tank pickup to carb inlet including stripping the fuel pump to check its diaphragm and valves... all OK but just noted the tank gauge float was fuel saturated and giving an incorrect reading.
I pulled the thermostat and did the usual pan test which was fine and the waterways seen were very clean as if a freshwater use engine.
Finally before a running test in the bucket I sorted out the erratic tilt mechanism which was caused by a plastic pawl with a wear lip stopping it snapping into place caused by no lubrication from new. Simply smoothed the profile with a file and greased then it was OK.
On test in the bucket it did start and run but with a reluctance to rev or keep running when put in gear with the drag of the prop. Actually started from cold with no choke and I suspected running rich which the plugs had indicated. Pumped water too but not the good jet usually seen on this model despite a strimmer line prod.
So a new impellor and carb overhaul went on the list.
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20 September 2020, 18:13
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#39
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RIBnet admin team
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,911
|
Most worrying was the noise David had noticed... an odd tinkling/ticking more from the engine area then drive/gearbox. I was thinking valve spring or piston ring possibly. After a while though I tracked it down to the top of the engine to find the pull start rope pulley had cracked where it has the spring out pawls and they were not fully retracting so catching on the top of the flywheel.
With the pull start off and started with an emergency rope the noise was absent... thank goodness.
It had to come from the USA and took a couple of weeks but fitting the new starter assy was an easy three bolt job. New one shown just about to be fitted.
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20 September 2020, 18:27
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#40
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RIBnet admin team
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,911
|
Next job to remove and strip the carb. As soon as the float bowl came off one big problem was evident. A previous "prodder" had put the carb back together with copious amounts of silicone gasket goo which was everywhere... in bits in the float chamber... blocking the accelerator/primer pump passage... in tiny bits blocking jets/passageways.
For me anything other than just a new gasket... prefer OE... on a carb is an absolute no no.
Checking further I found the float was incapable of shutting off its needle valve before the float top hit the carb body so the fuel would never completely shut off even when the chamber was full.... no doubt hence the rich running.
I'd not seen one this far out of spec before so a new float and needle were ordered together with gaskets. When re-assembling I found one jet plug O-ring I'd overlooked was hardened and cracked so to avoid a further two week wait from the USA for OE fitted a generic but decent spec fuel compatible one.
It took best part of a can of carb clean spray to get all the passages clear of bits of silicone.
Final pic all clean ready to assemble.
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