Newbie Training Courses

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Boatozzy

Hi all,

I completed my Power Boat Level 2 today

Boat all ready and kit sorted to take her out next weekend! Just need to sort out the insurance (I have studied this on another thread). Thanks for the tips on the kit

I have any other question on fuel? How do you guys manage this? I have an 11.3L fuel tank and a 10HP engine which will burn around 3.8LPH at full throttle (I don't plan on using full throttle). Do you take spare fuel onboard a SIB?

Thanks

So you have 3 hrs of fuel at full throttle there. if you work on 1/3rd to get there 1/3rd to get back and 1/3rd spare - then you have some fairly simple maths - you can travel upto 1 hrs from "home". Thats probably as far as you'll venture in a small sib to start with anyway. If you do say 15knots then you could look at it as letting you do 15 NM as even if you are going less that WOT and take longer it usually works out much the same (however beware if you are using it in areas with big tidal streams etc - you'll use more fuel to go less speed/distance).

Personally I'd take a small 5L "car type" emergency fuel can. I don't include this in my calculations it's my contingency against screwing up the calculations, losing track of time, getting lost, stopping to tow someone else etc. One word of warning though decanting fuel in a sib in a chop is an unpleasant experience.
With 5L spare even allowing for fuel spillage etc - you'll easily have an extra 1hr get you to a place of safety time - which for all but the craziest 10HP sib trips should be plenty, and because its in an extra can you can't accidentally use it.

[Boatozzy]

Thanks guys,

I have a 4 stroke engine. Will buy a 5L can for backup. Also, my outboard has manual trim so I will have my work cut out next weekend finding the best angles

[boristhebold]

PB2, VHF and First Aid would be my recomendation, contact an RYA trainer and see if you can get a discount for booking all three at the same time. If in the south try powerboat training uk based out of cobbs quay in poole.

PB2 will give you a good head start and also will include some navigation. If you really start to get into boating I would recomend doing day skipper theory at night school over the winter, many adult education places run the course over so many weeks 1 night a week, its a good fun thing to do over the winter months and will give a decent indepth look at navigation techniques.

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Bear in mind a flare is a very hot burning mass. You are on a boat made of rubber and have 20+L of petrol probably only 2-3m from you. The sh17 is well and truely hitting the fan for me to have to ignite a burning stick and hold it in my hand!

With you on that one.

I do carry flares but using them would be an absolute last resort.....could make a bad situation so much worse.

[Boatozzy]

Thanks all. Mixed comments about VHF. I did originally have this booked until some said I didn't really need it for what I'm looking to do. Just to clarify, I have a small 3.2M SIB with a 10HP engine to get me started. I am looking to stay close to the shore and go out on calm days to start with.

Thanks for the tips on first aid, I will book myself onto one of these.

I think this will be an interesting question……. does anyone own a PLB? Just looking at these online and wonder if they would be equal or better than a VHF for emergencies?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Boatozzy

Thanks all. Mixed comments about VHF. I did originally have this booked until some said I didn't really need it for what I'm looking to do.

Some thoughts:

1. A VHF is a sensible safety tool on ANY boat, and a useful one in some non-emergency circumstances too.

2. You can legally carry a VHF without an operator's certificate (issued after the training), but you can then only use it in an emergency. If you decide not to do the training I would strongly encourage you to carry one anyway - there are quite a few reasons why they are better than a mobile phone (although I would also carry a mobile in a waterproof case/bag as a 'spare').

3. If you haven't done the course, and have therefore no experience using a VHF are you sure you'll use it right when the proverbial hits the fan. They are getting more sophisticated which means actually harder to use - in an ideal world you hit a red button, hold down a button and broadcast your mayday. But what if you forget to adjust the squelch first you may not hear a response - after all its been rattling about in a bag with the buttons getting bumped.

I think this will be an interesting question……. does anyone own a PLB? Just looking at these online and wonder if they would be equal or better than a VHF for emergencies?

There are people here with PLB's. I doubt anyone has one without also having a VHF. They are very different beasts: The VHF lets you talk to and hear from the other side - so (i) you get the reassurance help is on its way; (ii) you can give them information about the problem (and help them send the right help); (iii) they may be able to give some quick fix advice to stop things getting worse (e.g. I've heard them suggest to some newbies in a panic to drop anchor); (iv) a clear VHF distress is usually quite certainly a problem and mobilises all the resources quickly whereas a PLB will likely get an investigation first (and having waited for GPS lockon, and passed via satellites and central handling locations will take at least a few minutes longer) and then a phonecall to your home to see if it is likely to be genuine, get an idea what they are looking for etc.; (v) you can use a VHF in a "Pan Pan" situation (if you don't know what that means you need to do the course). If you use a PLB then not only are you likely to cause some shaking of heads when it all becomes clear - but you might have a Helo overhead winching you off (and abandoning your boat) because you ran out of fuel.

By all means get a PLB, but its an addition to, rather than alternative for a VHF. I think there might be an interesting question whether a SIBber with a finite budget would be better getting a Handheld DSC-VHF or a low cost VHF + PLB.

[Boatozzy]

Originally Posted by Poly

Some thoughts:

1. A VHF is a sensible safety tool on ANY boat, and a useful one in some non-emergency circumstances too.

2. You can legally carry a VHF without an operator's certificate (issued after the training), but you can then only use it in an emergency. If you decide not to do the training I would strongly encourage you to carry one anyway - there are quite a few reasons why they are better than a mobile phone (although I would also carry a mobile in a waterproof case/bag as a 'spare').

3. If you haven't done the course, and have therefore no experience using a VHF are you sure you'll use it right when the proverbial hits the fan. They are getting more sophisticated which means actually harder to use - in an ideal world you hit a red button, hold down a button and broadcast your mayday. But what if you forget to adjust the squelch first you may not hear a response - after all its been rattling about in a bag with the buttons getting bumped.



There are people here with PLB's. I doubt anyone has one without also having a VHF. They are very different beasts: The VHF lets you talk to and hear from the other side - so (i) you get the reassurance help is on its way; (ii) you can give them information about the problem (and help them send the right help); (iii) they may be able to give some quick fix advice to stop things getting worse (e.g. I've heard them suggest to some newbies in a panic to drop anchor); (iv) a clear VHF distress is usually quite certainly a problem and mobilises all the resources quickly whereas a PLB will likely get an investigation first (and having waited for GPS lockon, and passed via satellites and central handling locations will take at least a few minutes longer) and then a phonecall to your home to see if it is likely to be genuine, get an idea what they are looking for etc.; (v) you can use a VHF in a "Pan Pan" situation (if you don't know what that means you need to do the course). If you use a PLB then not only are you likely to cause some shaking of heads when it all becomes clear - but you might have a Helo overhead winching you off (and abandoning your boat) because you ran out of fuel.

By all means get a PLB, but its an addition to, rather than alternative for a VHF. I think there might be an interesting question whether a SIBber with a finite budget would be better getting a Handheld DSC-VHF or a low cost VHF + PLB.

Thanks Poly. We covered the basics of May Day calls and Pan Pan on the PBL2. Makes sense.

[Max...]

Definitely get a VHF if going to sea and do the day course as cheap, confidence inspiring, fun and a legal requirement of course.

Not sure if Poly mentioned it but the RNL etc will locate you much more easily from direction finding your VHF signal too.

Not just for emergencies but you'll use it for calling harbours, other boaters, fuel barges etc. Just get a basic handheld for SIB use and stick to Standard Horizon or Icom.

Re' fuel use - best bet is to keep track of usage every trip out and you'll soon build up a very accurate idea of what you need.

For us it's around 2nm per litre and worst ever is 1.75nm litre so I always work to this figure.

You'll know from the PB2 that as skipper (even in a SIB pootling by the coast) you're duty bound to have a 'passage plan' for every trip to sea and therefore an accurate estimation of time/distance to be allotted.

You only run out of fuel once...at least I have unless you're a total dipstick and don't learn the lesson.

[Max...]

Also rather than take a spare 5 litre tank I'd get yourself a 25 litre and use that instead saving the little 10 litre can for short trips. Forget about refuelling or decanting fuel at sea in a little boat - even with the preferable syphon tube it's a nightmare and definitely not recommended.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Max...

Also rather than take a spare 5 litre tank I'd get yourself a 25 litre and use that instead saving the little 10 litre can for short trips. Forget about refuelling or decanting fuel at sea in a little boat - even with the preferable syphon tube it's a nightmare and definitely not recommended.

I agree that refueling at sea is an unpleasant experience. Personally I prefer to have the possibility of that punishment for running out on the main tank, than have a bigger main tank and the first I know I've been burning (or leaking!) more fuel that planned being when it runs out... It might also be useful to be able to distribute the weight. So if you don't want to decant - than perhaps a second 10/12L tank (I've never found one smaller although I do keep promising myself I will convert a 5L can to a tank).

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by Max...

....stick to Standard Horizon or Icom.....

Why? I've had to repair the microphones on two Icoms and I've got another two of them buried in the garage, Good only for spares.

I changed over to Cobra...cheep and cheerful and never a problem.
One of them is now ten years old and still works perfectly.

[Max...]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

Why? I've had to repair the microphones on two Icoms and I've got another two of them buried in the garage, Good only for spares.

I changed over to Cobra...cheep and cheerful and never a problem.
One of them is now ten years old and still works perfectly.

Well, general experience down the years is that Cobra are cheap but not so cheerful...

Icom and SH always highly recommended by most on here - certainly my SH has been superb. I have not had an Icom handheld only a fixed on a RIB.

But these are just generalisations and opinions - all are valid!