Newbie with questions

[sdsurfer]

I am looking to get my first boat in a few months a have been reading up on this forum for ideas and education. I grew up around boats in the rivers, lakes and ocean with my father but have never owned one or been responsible for one. Many post I read were very informative with what to do and not to do, thanks to those who posted. I think I know what I want so here goes any feedback good or bad is appreciated.

I really like the JP Marine 12.5 foot: http://www.jpmotorsports.net/pre_own...R0&veh=1785617

Does anyone have any experience with this manufacturer?

For the 12.5 foot boat what size motor should I get? I would be using this in the ocean to go to surf spots and fish around San Diego and Baja.

Can you use this boat for wake boarding or water skiing? Sorry of that is a dumb question.

[kelson]

I don't have any direct experience with JP Marine Inflatables. They are local in San Diego, so that is a big plus right there. The five year warranty and the relatively cheap prices make it interesting. I have seen these at the launch ramp and they look good.

The model you describe takes a maximum of 30hp. If you want to head out in decent sized surf that is probably about the minimum. I have seen guys putt around Point Loma in smaller craft when the waves are small and the conditions mild. If you want to use the boat in places like Mexico you might find a 12.5' with a 30hp a little small. I run a 13' 9" futura with a 40 hp and open water and bars at river mouths can be a challenge. I guess it depends on how confident you are and how near you are to some form of assistance.

A 30 hp might get you up on a wake board if you have a good start (pull right up). I wouldn't want to run much less than my 40hp 3 cyl (but I do have a heavier boat). Once your up a 30 would tow you. I think that set up would be borderline. No way on a single ski.

The Point is a fickle tide and wind direction dependent wave. Not often all that great. It can be fun, but it gets crowded. Those who pull up with a boat full of friends are missing the concept. A few boats with one or two is cool. You will see what I mean when you are surfing small inconsistent waves some day and one boat cruises up with 8 amped out surfers. Don't be that guy!

Get a really good anchor.

[sdsurfer]

Thanks for the quick response and nice to see someone else from San Diego has experience with what I want to do. Got to love forums like these. I am planning on taking the Coast Guard saftey course before I even buy this and then figure some time in Mission Bay learning. I picked the 12.5 foot becuase I dont want to get in over my head with too much boat and also want to make sure this is something I like (start small and work my way up). Again I am a begineer and really appreciate any replies. Just want to be safe, have fun and not be "that guy" that you described.

I saw a few post on anchors with specs on chain/ rope/ etc and everyone seems to agree the plow anchor is the best.

What is the forum take on motors, new, used?

[kelson]

A CG safety course can't be a bad thing. It is a good way to make sure that you have your boating rules and regulations down. It is also helpful to make sure you are totally in compliance as far as equipment and paper work go, if you are running around San Diego bay you will get stopped at some point by one of the many agencies operating here (Harbor Patrol, Lifeguard service, ICE and Homeland Security).

When the surf is relatively small the Point is easily accessible (and crowded). If there is more swell running the large shelf off Point Loma produces waves that shift around and break across a wide area. Lots of boats get pimped. No safety course will replace a cautious and aware approach. Whether surfing or fishing it is good to work your way up and build your experience. Be particularly careful in remote locations like Mexico where there may not be anyone to assist you. Small trips over exposed water can become major expeditions with a tide or swell change. The bay and small point surf are easy and even a smaller outboard will work fine. But if you are serious about stretching your range then a little bigger boat won't get you into trouble, it will give you a margin of safety. I consider my Futura to be just adequate for hydrofoiling and wakeboarding. If you seriously want to ride you might want to look at a different boat. You have to go up to 15' in a JP marine inflatable to handle a bigger outboard (by the boats rating). My 13'9" boat rates for a 50. That is the only knock I have on the JP product.

A plow is probably overkill for most sibs. But you are going to be anchoring in places and conditions that most sibbers would not consider. I carry the plow, 8 feet of anchor line and 200' of line in a bucket with a couple of holes in the bottom. With the boat climbing and dropping over shoaling waves you better anchor with some scope and chain! A longer line is invaluable if your outboard should fail someplace like Mexico with offshore winds. I have enough line to drop the anchor before I drift too deep. 200' is barely enough when fishing someplace like Bajos Wright. Check the water depth before you go someplace new.

New or old outboards... I prefer old two strokes for the weight advantage. But the new four strokes do get better gas mileage. Just avoid old outboards that are not reliable if you are going remote or in nasty conditions. A good, well maintained older outboard at near max hp would be better than a small new outboard for your use. Always nice to be able to turn and run if a wave breaks outside of you or to manuever in the racing tide with wind and swell entering an estuary. That said, if I had the cash I would buy a nice new 50 for the back of my boat.

Whatever you buy, it won't do everything. I wish I had a better boat to roll out 12 miles for better fishing. The ocean better be flat for me to do that! I hydrofoil behind a really nice ski nautique now. Sure wish it was mine. Try to figure out what you will be doing 90% of the time and let that be your guide. I started with a couple of kayaks.

[jyasaki]

I carry the plow, 8 feet of anchor line and 200' of line in a bucket

He meant, of course, 8' of chain. Which I would say is about minimum, depending on chain size. More the better as long as you can pull it up without too much effort.

For ocean going stuff, I'd suggest going for the larger boat. And as much hp as you can afford, or the hull will take. Doubly true if you plan to tow toys.

I wouldn't worry much about getting "too much boat" for a new guy; I'd worry more about getting not enough and having to upgrade shortly thereafter. A lot of people's first boat is a 26 foot center console offshore fishing boat. Not that they drive it well that first time, but eventually you do learn to handle it (well, hopefully, anyway.)

Kelson: Great image, that second pic you in there. Beautiful water conditions.

Happy Holidays, guys;

jky

[kelson]

Ha, ha, ha. That would definitely be 8 feet of chain, not line. The bottom off the point is sand, rock and some nice shelves (where the bugs hide out). The chain helps with abrasion, but mostly aids in setting the plow and maintaining a good catenary curve on the loaded anchor line. Trying to get a good set without some chain weight is a pain. If I was anchoring anyplace with coral or in deeper water around larger features like rock stacks I would definitely go with more chain. It helps if you know what you are setting into. Bust out the goggles on nice days and swim down for a look around. When it's small a mushroom anchor works fine, they get caught up in the kelp.

Lot's of wreckage washed up on the Point over the years! Mostly it is vessels that cut it short rounding the point and get caught by waves that swing wide. On my first boat trip my buddies boat got dragged all of the way to the rocks by a set that broke waaay outside and rolled right through. Set stopped just in time for us to retrieve the boat and all it got was some dings in the gel coat. Lot's of assistance at the point and we used to paddle there from Coronado so it isn't a huge deal. But the lessons I learned there make my remote Mexico trips a lot safer. I never underestimate the potential for sneaker sets.

Watch the entrance to Mission Bay too. They are dredging it so it doesn't close out so often when the surfs up.

[prairie tuber]

The first question that comes to my mind is whether you will be trailering the boat. Most people seem to stick with a 12' 6" (3.8m) or shorter SIB if they will be assembling & disassembling the boat with each use and fitting it + motor + fuel into the trunk of the car. With a pickup, maybe about 14' 1" (4.2m), but that is a lot of air to inflate & deflate each time.

If you will be using a trailer, and if your budget allows, I think that you'd find it worthwhile to go with a larger SIB, based on what you, Kelson & Jyasaki have discussed so far. I doubt that you would find a 15'-17' SIB any more difficult to handle than a 12'-13' foot SIB. In many, if not most cases (esp. choppy conditions) you would likely find it easier to handle. While the larger boat would require a more powerful motor, there probably would not be drastically greater fuel consumption.

The other question is how many people would you usually have with you, and what type of outings would be using the boat for? For 2 people camping & fishing with reasonably lightweight gear, 3.8 would be cramped, 4.2m OK if organized, 4.7m even if disorganized. For me to take my GF and her 2 young boys camping, I've got to load stuff in a pretty organized way to get everything in to my 4.7m (kids require alot more gear to keep them comfy and happy when camping than adults do). I had purchased my boat prior to meeting my GF & her young ones. Had I known that I would be trailering my boat all of the time, and that I would be going out camping with my GF and her 2 boys, I'd have ordered the 5.3m version of my boat.

These are things worth considering when purchasing a boat new that might not be so critical if purchasing a used boat. With a used inflatable boat purchase, if you find your requirements change you could easily re-sell for close to what you paid for it (if you take care of it). With a new boat purchase, selling & upgrading would be much more costly due to depreciation. It is absolutely worth keeping an eye out for a high quality used SIB as well. I would imagine that in the San Diego area, there must be the odd used FC-470 or FC-530 getting sold off at a really good price.

[sdsurfer]

I am so glad I found this forum, you guys are very helpful. I think I will now be looking for used instead of new something around 14 foot. I plan on using this for surf\camping trips and fishing mostly in the ocean around San Diego and Baja. Never more than two people with me in the boat.
I cant thank you guys enough for the feedback, in my 40 years I have made many rookie mistakes and I am sure I will still make some but at least I will avoid a few now.
So I am guess used SIB's are worth wild, what should I look for when shopping around? I have bought and sold many dirt bikes so I know what to look for with them but inflatables, I am lost. I have seen some on CL but wouldnt even know what questions to ask, here is an example : http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/boa/2125698161.html

[sdsurfer]

Here is another:http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/boa/2126124951.html

This one looks kinda old but again I dont know what I am looking at.

[prairie tuber]

If that FC-470 is in good shape, I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat at that price!!!

[kelson]

There are a lot of fc's on the market around here recently, though most of them are older than that. If there had been any when I bought my boat I would have got one! That is definitely a good price on a 2004. But you do need to consider your potential use. The roll up floor works well, but you can't attach fixed structures to it like you could with a solid section aluminum floor. If you are happy with a tiller set up this is a great vessel. There are sectional aluminum floors available. I occasionally see them on E Bay and Craigslist. I wanted to have a nice seat rather than use the tubes or floor and my forward battery, aluminum gas tank and controls console wouldn't work in a roll up floor boat. Definitely no ski pole without a solid sectional floor! I understand it is hard to know what you want when you start out. But do your best to determine what you will use the boat for the most.

The age and exposure of an inflatable are key. The second used boat you list looks pretty old. Be wary buying very old inflatables. Look carefully at the material, seam edges, the transom and it's bonding to the tubes. I would not buy an old inflatable without filling it with a few inches of water to check for leaks. I bought my 99 zodiac futura with an already separated floor and leaking transom. I was aware of the need for work. I drove a good deal on it! You really have to be methodical and work your way around the boat when inspecting it. The outboard looks pretty old too. That doesn't mean it isn't in good shape. It is good to do a compression check if you can. At least see it run. Pull a plug and use a bore light to look inside the cylinders if you can. Check for leaks in the lower unit. My outboard alone was worth most of what I paid for my Futura with outboard and trailer. You can piece together a set up. But you will usually get the best deal on a used boat, outboard and trailer sold as a package.

Patience! I wanted a sib with speed tubes to improve handling when towing riders. I almost gave up. But I did find what I wanted eventually. Go look at some boats. It helps educate you. Don't buy the first boat you see (unless it rocks!).

Do not waste money on trailers in poor condition. Particularly if you travel to Mexico. Surface rust, electrical shorts or bearing drag can all be fixed, but the trailer must absolutely have structural integrity. I have seen so many boats on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere. I ended up with a nice galvanized Pacific trailer in my deal, then put $500 into it (all SS u bolts on the frame, new tires, 2 spares, new springs, new led lights and repacked the bearings).

In the end my outboard, the trailer, the accessories and all of my equipment are worth waaay more than the hull. So try not to focus solely on the sib if you buy a package deal. It also made me more confident in the deal for my old sib (I could always replace the hull).

Good luck on your search and purchase. Just cruising the bay and fishing is a lot of fun. You really don't have to go huge for that. The level of preparedness required should be proportional to how far away assistance is. That's why jyasaki and I recommend balancing ease of use with safety. As long as remote spots in Mexico are on your list the bar for what is acceptable is raised significantly.

[jyasaki]

One other point source for information is your local boat ramp (if you're talking inflatables, a ramp that divers frequent, even if not so local, might be a better choice.)

Most boat owners don't have much of a problem when it comes to talking about their boat.

jky