One man launch (Zodiac Futura)

Clarky28 · 01 December 2010, 10:43

Hi there,

I'm looking to get a zodiac futura, some time in the nearish future. I would like to know what is the very largest size I could transport, set up and strip down on my own, including the outboard. I have a pick up so space shouldn't be a problem, and I don't want the stearing console or hard floor. I'm early thirties and averagely built, I wouldn't mind it being a bit of a struggle, but must be able to do it single handed.

I apologise if this is a boring, been done to death question, but I couldn't find much when I searched.

I would also be interested to know a rough estimate of set up time. I read some body on here said about 20 mins up and 20 mins down, but that seems very quick.

Appreciate the time anyone spends answering my questions.

Poly · 01 December 2010, 12:04

Clarky,

I have a 48 kg engine, which I just managed to get on my transom on my own. I can lift more than 48 kg (if I have to) but engines are balanced badly for lifting, and not very good shapes for holding. I put this on the transom in the comfort of my garage, I don't know if I could manage it lifting from a pontoon down into a wobbly boat and with the risk it went in the sea if I slipped. I'm fairly sure I couldn't lift it up from the transom onto a pontoon / jetty. From what I've read here I'd say that whilst there are some stronger / better equipped / more organised people here - the general feeling is anything over 50 kg is going to be too difficult to take on and off every time you launch and recover.

How big is actually practical will depend on (a) how you launch - rollers, trailer, or slide in the water then put engine on (b) how far from the car to the water (c) the road/surface quality / steepness you are crossing.

If you are searching, "singlehanded" might be better than "one man" - or maybe not!

azzurro · 01 December 2010, 12:21

I see you're at Phuket.

Well you have many possibilities:
- Get a trolley in the Internet and a garage and have everything ready to launch.
- Beach launching with launching roller - get it in the Internet.
- For managing the engine, if you have a pickup, get a pickup davits on the Internet. Get an outboard trolley in the Internet to service your engine.
- Of course, you will need an electric pump - get it in the Internet.
- Do not look in the Internet!!! Get some 2-3 natives there to help you for a few dollars!!!

Clarky28 · 01 December 2010, 13:22

Thank you very much for you quick replies. In case you hadn't realised, I will be a total newbie to boating, but love to throw myself in at the deep end so to speak, safely of course.

So would I be right in thinking 50kg is about a 20HP? There seems to be quite a jump up to 70kg for 25HP. I think it was Honda I was looking at.

To be honest, the whole appeal of a SIB for me,is the folding it up and transporting it with out a trailer, I'm not to bothered if it's a bit time consuming. I have space (just) for a boat on a trailer, but if I was going down that route I probably wouldn't choose a SIB in the first place. It would seem I'm in the minority on that though.

I can get within 20 metres of the beach, so I guess I was hoping to drag it down on a dolly maybe with those special beach wheels. Is it not an option to take the motor down to the water on a trolley and mount it there? That way splitting the weight in to two trips?

How about the boat. Would I be able to manage anything bigger than the smallest 3.7m?

Still 3.7m with 20 HP will be more than adequate to take me around the coast to do a bit of fishing and snorkling.

Thanks for your time, appreciated. I won't lie to you though, I'm in the very early stages of this, it's not going to happen over night, so don't waist too much time answering my questions. I just need to get over the first hurdle of what size boat and motor, so I'm ready to go when the time comes.

EDIT: Just realised there's only a 3kg difference in weight between the 3.7 and 4.1 so I suppose either would be an option??

Poly · 01 December 2010, 15:46

I can't really comment on the size/weight of the boat, other than to say 20HP will be plenty for 3.7m (and fine for 4.1m). For one or 2 people 3.7m is probably more than adequate. Bear in mind if you are on your own, with you tiller steering at the back and the weight of the engine you will be quite stern heavy - you might be better with a 3.1m ish boat?

In terms of engine size it depends if you are talking about 2 stroke or 4 stroke. All Honda's are 4 stroke. 4 stroke are usually heavier for a given HP rating. (Small, e.g. 20 HP ish) 2 stroke are generally not availble new in Europe and the US any more because of environmentla restrictions. I'm not sure if that is the case for you? If you can still get them, or are looking second hand you'd get a 25 HP Yamaha for just < 50 kg.

BUT if you can I would strongly encourage you to try lifting this (if at all possible onto a boat) as it won't be easy.

Personally I'd be looking for something lighter - maybe 15 HP 2 stroke, which would push a lightly loaded 3.7m boat OK and a 3.1 very nicely. The "ideal" engine, is possibly the Tohatsu 18HP 2 stroke if you can still get hold of them? - maximum power to weight ratio. Very light for lifting on and off etc...

azzurro · 01 December 2010, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

I can't really comment on the size/weight of the boat, other than to say 20HP will be plenty for 3.7m (and fine for 4.1m). For one or 2 people 3.7m is probably more than adequate. Bear in mind if you are on your own, with you tiller steering at the back and the weight of the engine you will be quite stern heavy - you might be better with a 3.1m ish boat?

In terms of engine size it depends if you are talking about 2 stroke or 4 stroke. All Honda's are 4 stroke. 4 stroke are usually heavier for a given HP rating. (Small, e.g. 20 HP ish) 2 stroke are generally not availble new in Europe and the US any more because of environmentla restrictions. I'm not sure if that is the case for you? If you can still get them, or are looking second hand you'd get a 25 HP Yamaha for just < 50 kg.

BUT if you can I would strongly encourage you to try lifting this (if at all possible onto a boat) as it won't be easy.

Personally I'd be looking for something lighter - maybe 15 HP 2 stroke, which would push a lightly loaded 3.7m boat OK and a 3.1 very nicely. The "ideal" engine, is possibly the Tohatsu 18HP 2 stroke if you can still get hold of them? - maximum power to weight ratio. Very light for lifting on and off etc...

Not only weight but load balance. 4strokes head is heavier than tail, so it's more complicated to handle than 2strokes.

Clarky28 · 01 December 2010, 17:14

Thanks for the continued advice. I could tell this forum was very noob friendly, just after a couple of hours browsing. Makes a nice change.

Certainly lots to think about. Will keep on reading.

Northern Pike · 02 December 2010, 02:00

I started that way. Had a 9.9 given to me. Bought a MkIIc to go with it. Too slow. Got a 20, which I upped to 25 hp. No problem lifting it on and off at home, but too much hassle to inflate/deflate; mount dismount motor each time I wanted to use it. Ended up building a trailer.

kelson · 02 December 2010, 16:10

When I bought my mk2 futura I had intentions to roll it up and carry it on excursions to Mexico. It really was a pain to pack up and all the gear took up more space than I anticipated. It didn't take too long with help, but by myself it was at least an hour (the hard floor is easy). You dont want to roll it up wet or dirty. So figure on using a tarp, towel dry the boat off and let it stand inflated while you deal with everything else. I use the old river rafting trick and prop up the hull with my two paddles. If you are in salt water you will need to do a fresh water wash at some point. Twenty minutes to pack? Certainly not by yourself with my boat!

I'm glad my deal came with a trailer! I definitely use it more frequently than I would otherwise and now I can cruise with the bigger outboard all of the time.

Ribs and hard hulled boats have their advantages, but a sib on a trailer still has a lot of benefits. The ridiculously light combined weight doesn't require a bigger vehicle to tow, no heavyweight would make it down the four wheel drive trails we travel on and I could never successfully beach launch over round rocks or just using my 30 ft tow strap in estuaries.

The ability to pack up your inflatable can make it possible to have a boat, which is always better than no boat. As everyone pointed out loading and unloading the outboard with the boat on the water is very problematic. A roller, wheels or anything to facilitate a dry motor mount situation before launching is definitely the way to go (though I always had help). If you can swing the storage space at all, get a trailer.

azzurro · 03 December 2010, 13:59

If mounting/dismounting, I would go for a 3-3.5 m, high pressure floor, and a 10HP fourstroke. Of course, Bravo electric pump, foldable engine trolley (such as Rooteq), and another foldable trolley for the packed boat. Launching at sand beach with launching inflatable roller. All of that fits in a pickup and is light enough to handle on your own.
And fun for 2 people, even 3.
Take a look at Honwave-Honda packs or similar from Yam-Yamaha, Suzumar-Suzuki, etc.

And my best advice: first choose the engine, then the boat.

Clarky28 · 03 December 2010, 14:44

I'm glad I won't be buying anything for a while. Got a bit of time to come to my senses and do the sensible thing. I'm not a know it all, who ignores the advice of people like your good selves, who obviously are very knowledgable. It's just that sometimes I need to learn the hard way.

If I rushed straight out and bought something, based on what I fancied and with my complete lack of knowledge, I would have gone for a Futura MK 2 FR (4.1m) with a 20HP, 2 stroke lump. I shouldn't have any problems finding a second hand one of those around here.

Now everything that everybody is saying, is pointing me to a slightly smaller SIB and a 10/15HP outboard, so I would obviously have to think very hard, and would be a fool to go with my heart instead of everybodies experience and knowledge.

I'm adoment however, that I won't tyre of the setting up and stripping down once a week, as to me that will (I think) be part of the fun, (again I will probably end up on here one day eating humble pie) and it must be a one man job, start to finish.

It's not so much the speed that interests me to be honest. My logic is more based on the bigger the SIB, the safer I would be venturing further offshore,(eventually) and the bigger the SIB the bigger the outboard needs to be.

How far do people venture in calmish seas, in Sibs 4m and under?

Anyway, it's a while yet till I take the plunge, so I will keep on reading and learning. I will also go and handle some outboards as well, so I can appreciate how awkward and heavy they actually are.

Poly · 03 December 2010, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarky28

How far do people venture in calmish seas, in Sibs 4m and under?

My boat is not a sib but its that size, and I quite happily have done some 60 mile round trips - although only usually about 2-3 miles off shore (hugging the coast). The issue is not usually how far but how quickly can you get back ashore to a place of safety if something is an issue e.g. the weather changes.

For some inspiration on more adventurous trips then search for posts by Zodiacman and Keith Hart or Prarie Tuber

9D280 · 03 December 2010, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarky28

I'm adoment however, that I won't tyre of the setting up and stripping down once a week, as to me that will (I think) be part of the fun, (again I will probably end up on here one day eating humble pie) and it must be a one man job, start to finish.

Been there, done that, got the fed up waiting for it all to happen wife.......

In all seriousness, I admire your optimism, but I can assure you that having done that with both sailing dinghies & outboard powered things, I can assure you that after the umpteenth bruised shin / scraped knuckle / spending almost as long to drag it all out than you do afloat you will be wishing you could wheel it down the beach & chuck it in the water!

I quote my wife from a few years ago - "I like sailing, it's all the faffing before & after that puts me off". I have taken the comments on board and having got both the sailing dinghy & the rib to under 10 minutes from "handbrake on" to "ready to go", I can now only agree with her!

If you are thinking launching wheels, then 20 HP might not be so bad, especially if it's a 2- stroke. You could pump it up, then it's engine straight out the back onto the transom & you have an instant engine trolley cunningly disguised as a SIB, so the weight kind of becomes irrelevant.

Other thing to watch with 4- strokes is they are fussy about which way you lay them down.

As Pol says, it's the bog awkward shape of an outboard that makes it a pain to carry. I have a 35KG 25Hp 'rude that is such a pain to manoever that I bought a sack trolley for it.

kelson · 03 December 2010, 16:19

It really is a fundamental issue, going with a smaller boat and outboard to facilitate packing or run a larger inflatable that is a bit of a pain. You really should go check out the smaller boats. With the tubes inflated there isn't much floor space. A small inflatable might be fine for bays and near shore calm water, but I considered my mk2 to be about as small as I could go for my surf excursions (definitely not calm water). I know a Futura owner who makes the channel run to Anacapa here off California. Definitely open ocean! But he is running on a 40 in a 13' 9" boat with an aluminum floor. That is not something I would want to do in a 10' inflatable. So consider what you want to do carefully. There is a big difference between a 3.1m vessel and a 4.2m, both in size and capabilities.

I try to stay near coastal, but I wouldn't consider running a bar with breaking waves in a smaller vessel with a small outboard. My mk2 seemed huge when I bought it, now it feels small. For my use it was worth the extra hassle to go as big as I could. Balancing all of your conflicting desires is hard. If you want to push your range be safe and favor the less convenient larger sib!

chris123 · 04 December 2010, 11:55

I think the important thing to remember is there is no 'right' or 'wrong', it is what best suits you and your location. There have been lots of good suggestions on this thread, but its only natural that each of us will recommend what we have found works best for ourselves. One of the posters here Malthouse has lots of experience with SIBs and RIBs, and always reckoned that he could inflate a SIB and be ready to launch quicker than many people trailer launching.

My first question would be what is readily available where you are? If you buy a Zodiac Futura mk2 second hand and decide it is not for you, how easily can you sell it again, and how much will you lose on it? If the answers are 'easily' and 'not much or nothing' then just go for it (with the usual caveats about training / safety equipment). If you get sick of deflating / inflating, then sure buy a trailer, but don't rule out the packing away approach until you have tried it.

About 5 years ago I bought an old Avon 3.1 metre SIB with floorboards from Ebay, and combined it with a new Suzuki DF9.9 (45 kg)

For the first year, I carried it in the back of my hatchback car. This worked ok, but I got sick of the smell of petrol and it took up all the space in the car.

For the second year I bought a box trailer, and carried the boat deflated and outboard in that. This worked ok as well, but I started to think it would be easier to keep the boat inflated and just put the outboard on when I got to the launch site.

For the third year I got the opportunity to buy a very heavy duty 3.5 metre SIB. So I sold the Avon on Ebay (for more than I paid for it

).The new SIB has a single solid floorboard, so packing was no longer really an option. It is also seriously heavy (I would guess much heavier than a 4.2 metre Zodiac). So it now lives on a trailer with the outboard permanently mounted.

Over the last couple of years I have gradually tweaked the trailer setup to speed the launch and recover process, with extra rollers, tie down straps all cut to length and marked up, quick release lighting board, etc.

I suspect the one thing you will struggle with more than any other is lifting the outboard in and out of the pickup. I agree with the other comments that the only way i can fit and remove my outboard is on stable ground before launch.

My tips would be:

1. Air floor is better for packing away and lightweight. Solid floor is better for performance and rougher conditions.

2. Launching wheels are essential. I would suggest:
-Unpack and inflate boat next to car
-Fit wheels
-Fit outboard
-Wheel boat to launch site

3. Get an outboard trolley.

4. A 3.5metre SIB is perfect for 2 adults, cosy for 3 and crowded for 4.

Cheers

Chris

Clarky28 · 04 December 2010, 13:16

Some great info in the last few threads, cheers. I guess it's all about getting the balance right between what you think is right for you, and the advice of people who have been there done that.

How about one of these, to take the motor straight from the pick up down to the boat having already put the boat on its wheels? Anybody do that or see anybody else do it?

http://www.rib.net/forum/attachment....1&d=1291467260

Poly · 04 December 2010, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarky28

Some great info in the last few threads, cheers. I guess it's all about getting the balance right between what you think is right for you, and the advice of people who have been there done that.

How about one of these, to take the motor straight from the pick up down to the boat having already put the boat on its wheels? Anybody do that or see anybody else do it?

http://www.rib.net/forum/attachment....1&d=1291467260

If I had one of those I'd keep the sib inflated, and get the biggest sib that fitted comfortably in the back of the pickup! I did wonder if it was possible to construct some ramps or an arrangement like a "break back" trailer that would let you carry the whole boat on the back of the pickup.

kelson · 04 December 2010, 17:15

I borrowed a pick up with a crane like that to move my larger outboard onto the transom. Works great. Lowered weight capacity with the arm extended, but sufficent for this application (500 lbs for the one I used). Some cranes come so they can be disassembled, leaving just the base. Not that expensive ($140) but the base sort of sucks bolted into your pick up all of the time. DIY quick release? My friend uses his regularly so the base stays in the bed. Had to make my own strap harness to handle my outboard properly.

Clarky28 · 04 December 2010, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelson

I borrowed a pick up with a crane like that to move my larger outboard onto the transom. Works great. Lowered weight capacity with the arm extended, but sufficent for this application (500 lbs for the one I used). Some cranes come so they can be disassembled, leaving just the base. Not that expensive ($140) but the base sort of sucks bolted into your pick up all of the time. DIY quick release? My friend uses his regularly so the base stays in the bed. Had to make my own strap harness to handle my outboard properly.

That's good to hear. I was half expecting to be told it was a stupid idea, and wouldn't work. I think the one in the picture is like your mates, it all folds down in to a small case and just leaves the base, which I don't think would be too obtrusive. They also do one which rigs up to a tow bar, so leaves nothing permenant on the vehicle at all.

Poly · 05 December 2010, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarky28

That's good to hear. I was half expecting to be told it was a stupid idea, and wouldn't work. I think the one in the picture is like your mates, it all folds down in to a small case and just leaves the base, which I don't think would be too obtrusive. They also do one which rigs up to a tow bar, so leaves nothing permenant on the vehicle at all.

How long does it take to set up and dismantle this each time? It seems like another potential area of faff and delay which will get in the way of on-the-water time.