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Old 16 July 2021, 16:12   #41
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>>> in the water for the first time this weekend.

The weather is due to be great most places so I really hope you get your outing/s. Look forward to a report and pics.
Thanks. Will endeavour to take some photos.

Having packed last night I took the car to fill it up and when I returned I noticed something interesting which was that the self leveller hadn't pumped the rear back up so I've decided to not use the rack and to put everything inside!



All I have to do now is find some space for the cool bag and the three wet bags!!!
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Old 17 July 2021, 23:14   #42
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Well. Finally home. Bit of a long day and a bit of a good one.

Did manage a few photos and will deal with that after the weekend.

Launched around 1pm at Buckler's Hard. As nice and mellow as it was 30 years ago. Took just over half an hour to set up and launch.

Headed downstream to the mouth as I wanted to test how the boat was flat out. Got to the mouth and the Solent was pretty quiet and relatively calm so, to cut a long story short, we ended up in Cowes. I just couldn't resist nipping over like I used to as a kid. Great fun dashing over and back and the girls couldn't stop laughing. All in a bit of a result. I reckon 16 knots was flat out. Very dry and the outboard seems to sit at the right height.

It's quite a strange sensation when the boat slips when going flat out.

Back to the river and after a while the engine kept cutting out, a slow, choking death which required a few minutes before it would start again.

Went up to Keeping Trees and moored in the shade to whip the plugs out. They were quite wet and black so I'm thinking either a bit of over fuelling or I've messed up the oil mix. I added 300ml to 15L. In the morning I need to recalculate that this is correct for a 50:1. Too knackered right now.

Packing the boat back down was hard work and for tomorrow's trip to Hayling Island I'm going to put the kit on the tow rack as hoisting the bag into the car wasn't that much fun and it leaves no space inside.

Tomorrow I'll take the 4 ho Yam as we'll be in the harbour.
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Old 17 July 2021, 23:54   #43
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The ratio is right for 50 to 1 but unless I missed something you have a Yamaha 2 stroke 15HP which should be 100 to 1 ratio so 150ml is what you should have added to 15ltr.
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Old 18 July 2021, 00:12   #44
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Evening. I was pretty sure my calc was correct but it wouldn't be the first time I've got calculations wrong.

Interesting to hear the 15 should be 100:1. I did a bit of research on the web and the pages I found suggested 50:1 for the older engines.

It wasn't smoky when running and the plugs being wet may have been a result of flooding when trying to restart but they are definitely sootier than They should be. If I'm adding too much oil that would fit.

It ran fine when on full throttle which doesn't wholly support a theory of a rich running engine. But packing in while pottering does seem to suggest it could be too much oil.

As an aside, by the early evening it wouldn't start at all but that problem was solved when unpacking the boat back at the slip and discovering the line had been disconnected from the fuel tank. One must assume the fuel line simply didn't survive first contact with my eldest.
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Old 18 July 2021, 11:29   #45
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>>> the fuel line simply didn't survive first contact with my eldest.

Ha yes we've had that out round Skye and stress levels rose for a while until I noticed daughter had rested her foot on the tank and just pushed the release collar back enough to shut off fuel but not immediately obvious it was disconnected.

That was the generic snap on tank end connector found on Tohatsu and other tanks... I have one at the moment and will change it soon.


The cowl on Tm's Yamaha is different to the last "legal" models so I'd double check the model re mixture.

Having said that running in mixture is often twice as much oil as usual running so for example a Tohatsu 9.8 runs in for ten hours at 25:1. Yet they will run perfectly on this mix so I think the problem may be elsewhere.
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Old 18 July 2021, 22:02   #46
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Thanks. Will endeavour to take some photos.

Having packed last night I took the car to fill it up and when I returned I noticed something interesting which was that the self leveller hadn't pumped the rear back up so I've decided to not use the rack and to put everything inside!



All I have to do now is find some space for the cool bag and the three wet bags!!!
Is this standard land rover Air suspension?
If so, I know on the p38 range rovers, if it is towing, the suspension locks out so it may just need you to put the rack on, the let it level before plugging in the trailer board.
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Old 18 July 2021, 23:24   #47
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Is this standard land rover Air suspension?
If so, I know on the p38 range rovers, if it is towing, the suspension locks out so it may just need you to put the rack on, the let it level before plugging in the trailer board.
Evening. It's an early 1972 model. They have a self leveller that pumps itself up during the first half mile or so of driving with a heavy load. It's one of the few parts I didn't rebuild and I suspect I should have.
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Old 18 July 2021, 23:27   #48
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>>> the fuel line simply didn't survive first contact with my eldest.

Ha yes we've had that out round Skye and stress levels rose for a while until I noticed daughter had rested her foot on the tank and just pushed the release collar back enough to shut off fuel but not immediately obvious it was disconnected.

That was the generic snap on tank end connector found on Tohatsu and other tanks... I have one at the moment and will change it soon.


The cowl on Tm's Yamaha is different to the last "legal" models so I'd double check the model re mixture.

Having said that running in mixture is often twice as much oil as usual running so for example a Tohatsu 9.8 runs in for ten hours at 25:1. Yet they will run perfectly on this mix so I think the problem may be elsewhere.
Thanks. I'm just home. I ran it again today and I think it's running rich. It runs ok on wider throttles but dies on low throttle to tickiver. Will check the plugs over the coming days while flushing it.
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Old 19 July 2021, 10:31   #49
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I used the camera very little in the end as we were too busy mucking about but it was perfect conditions: it was choppy off Cowes but nothing the boat wasn't comfortable with.



Going out for two consecutive days in good conditions and blazing heat was an excellent learning curve and a reminder of things forgotten.

My primary failing was to forget the lesson of boarding school, to always protect one's backside!! Two days of sitting on the aluminium plank and I'm glad to have a comfortable chair in the office!!

Setting up is quick enough and at Beaulieu the girls were very happy collecting old tarp rivets around the dinghy park and at Hayling Island they were down on the shoreline collecting shells. But packing up is a really interesting one. Getting everything back into the car at the end of a long day and facing a near three hour drive is something that has the potential to rip the gilding from the lily. On Sunday I had a friend at the sailing club who helped pack away and it served to highlight the gulf between easy and exhausting.

What I have to consider is that almost always these trips will be day trips and that they will end with 3 hour drives home. On top of that I then need to unpack the boat today to clean it and put it away again.

A smaller, lighter boat wouldn't change that and I am extremely happy with the boat itself.

When on the water you can feel the structure flexing and yesterday, after an hour or so the prop was beginning to cavitate a lot but I couldn't top up the tubes due to the issue with the outboard. Ultimately it was good to experience how the boat changes in this regard. But the 390 size makes it much more relaxing as the girls have enough space to be comfortable while I have enough space to be clumsy at the stern and not kick a child in the head or elbow one when starting the engine.

On the Saturday it performed superbly just mucking about on the river and was excellent crossing the Solent. Much more comfortable than I recall being in a Dell Quay Dory. Top speed on the Solent was 15 knots. I'm not sure I could expect more than that. It hopped onto the plane very easily, the larger waves didn't knock it off and the boat was bone dry.

In short, the set up on the water exceeded expectations and is more than good enough for what I want to achieve which is essentially random day trips with the girls and for them to be laughing all day with me able to join in the laughter rather than stuck having to focus on niggles.

I need to find the right position for the rear bench. It was about right on Saturday but completely wrong on Sunday, too close to the outboard. In some regards I'm wondering if I want a rear thwart as it's more comfortable to sit on the tubes in the river and at sea it might be easier to sit in the deck and glue a nice big handle on inside of the starboard tube. Something to mull over.

Another bit of new knowledge is that on Saturday I only used 5L of fuel. The 25l tank is pretty cumbersome and for starters I won't be filling it again with 25L. I won't need more than 15 and I may just get a 12L tank at some point for the packaging gains.

What else? I got to do some 'child overboard' drills yesterday in the crystal clear, shallow waters of Hayling. They thoroughly enjoyed being thrown off the boat as far as I could manage and swimming back. Lots of fun for them but underneath the fun is the memory now that a bit of disorientation, a bit of salt in the eyes and a bit of swimming and scrabbling back on board is nothing to panic about but something to just do.


Drying off.

It was also the perfect one of year for the jellyfish which kept them preoccupied on Saturday. Luckily I'd packed a bucket so that whiled away an hour at Keeping Trees, in the shade, catching, prodding and releasing them.



On the Saturday, when the engine finally conked out (later realised due to fuel line being disconnected ) the girls were really keen to row and we went up the creeks and they rowed back to the marina. What was weird was something I realised on the drive home which was that their first time rowing was at my father's old mooring and the exact spot where I had learned to row 40 years earlier!!

So all in, an excellent couple of days with only a tiny bit of tinkering required going forward and two very happy sproggs who are already talking about doing more.

The one elephant in the room is the setting and packing up.

The reality is that because our drives are so long the time and effort to do this at either end of the journey eats massively into the time we have on water.

There is a really simple solution and that is to relocate this aspect to the days either side. It makes far more sense, given my situation of long drives and having to set up on my own while also looking after two children near water to actually do the set up the evening before at home and transport the inflated boat there and back on a trailer and then clean and stow at leisure the next day. Launching and recovering by hand remains sensible but being able to shift a large chunk of the work away from the actual day is going to be immensely beneficial. In these Covid times I can't even send the children to the Master Builders to buy themselves a fizzy drink and a bowl of chips as a treat while I huff and puff packing away.

As the whole purpose is maximum fun but packed into really short days then this morning I'm finding myself thinking I'd be very smart to buy a basic road trailer as it will give us potentially an extra two hours on the water and eliminate the boring bit for the children who in a more normal world I'd be able to send off on their own for treats.
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Old 19 July 2021, 11:29   #50
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The one elephant in the room is the setting and packing up.

The reality is that because our drives are so long the time and effort to do this at either end of the journey eats massively into the time we have on water.

As the whole purpose is maximum fun but packed into really short days then this morning I'm finding myself thinking I'd be very smart to buy a basic road trailer as it will give us potentially an extra two hours on the water and eliminate the boring bit for the children who in a more normal world I'd be able to send off on their own for treats.
Pretty much mirroring our own experience.

Trailing transformed our boating, downsides are well known and discussed so won't get into pros/cons.

For us the next logic was 'if I'm prepared to trailer, what's stopping me from getting a rigid deep V hull, something with comfy jockey seats, console and fitted instruments?'
Even have a bimini now

Thanks for the photos and sharing
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Old 19 July 2021, 11:42   #51
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A great write up covering the pros/cons of the sib, but we'll worth the bad bits to have the fun you obviously did!
The aches and pains caused will soon pass, but you and the family will have memories to treasure the rest of your lives
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Old 19 July 2021, 12:16   #52
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Pretty much mirroring our own experience.

Trailing transformed our boating, downsides are well known and discussed so won't get into pros/cons.

For us the next logic was 'if I'm prepared to trailer, what's stopping me from getting a rigid deep V hull, something with comfy jockey seats, console and fitted instruments?'
Even have a bimini now

Thanks for the photos and sharing
Yup. My thinking is that the trailer merely serves the purpose of reaching the parking spot and that I would still launch by hand. Launching by trailer on your own is a lot less simple than pushing the boat off the trailer in the car park then walking it in and leaving.

If I went to a rib then I'd just go 6m+ and dry stack it. That brings in a whole new cost dynamic and that obligation to make use of it. I think I would only entertain that if the children became obsessive about boating.

They seem to love the SIB and the fact they can row it and much about like that is a positive. Plus, the more modest cost means there is no obligation to use it, it's just something that is there when the stars align.

I'm quite reluctant to spend £1200 on a trailer but I think it will vastly improve the pleasure and flexibility.
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Old 19 July 2021, 12:39   #53
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A great write up covering the pros/cons of the sib, but we'll worth the bad bits to have the fun you obviously did!
The aches and pains caused will soon pass, but you and the family will have memories to treasure the rest of your lives
Thanks. A bit of a scattergun review but there were no surprises thrown up on water. The boat delivered extremely well for what I wanted from it. The whole set up has cost me £2.500 and will allow us to just hop in the car and go places over the summer and for the girls to bank a whole load of new life experiences to complement poking dead animals with sticks and getting stuck in trees.

I had concerns that the 3.9 would be too wobbly but it was fine. Concerns the outboard would need fettling to find the right position but it dropped onto the transom and just delivered. It actually did that far better than I hoped. The boat is very dry, those big tubes seem to make a difference. It handles well. It's remarkably stable. I have terrible balance but even I was able to stand up and not feel I was moving the boat. And I can put it in and out of the water, fully laden, on my own.

My general feeling is that of money very well spent and a great product for how I want to use it.

The only downside is the realisation that setting up and packing up eats heavily into the day, especially in the current environment. But this is nothing to do with the boat itself but rather my choice to live as far from the sea as you arguably can in the UK and that society has deemed that a 10 year old can no longer be of use to society by going to buy their father a pint of beer while he packs the boat away. It's a disgrace that puns won't serve 10 year olds these days!!! Downright uncivilised. It was one of my favorite chores as a child although I never mastered the art of not spilling a bit on the way back but I was extremely proficient at catching that spillage.

All in, having never done the SIB thing before, other than my old Redcrest, it delivered on everything I hoped far and is a capable bit of kit for a modest financial outlay that will deliver more life experiences to young children than a week by a pool that cost several times more. I may be a Londoner born and bred but my mother is proper Yorkshire so I don't like spending money.
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Old 19 July 2021, 15:00   #54
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Excellent review TM... the over-riding thing that comes out of it is you had huge enjoyment from the SIB. Refining the niggles is all part of it.

Random thoughts...

I've been a starboard tube sitter for over a decade now but the brief experience of an Elling KB350 we owned which came with two moveable seats and amazing seat cushions has converted me to wanting a seat with cushion so at this moment I have the SIB in the garage to fit the mounts for one.

I found the comfort of a supportive cushion and being able to sit more central which was better for the boat's trim a great advantage. I'd try a decent cushion if I were you before junking the seat. If you are good with a needle you can DIY but looking round I found very little in the UK in the way of just cushions... most came as part of a seat bag and tend to be useless thin foam that immediately compresses to nothing just with your weight leaving no further flex for bumps.

After loads of research I bought a Bengar cushion from Germany. My 13st only gives a static compression of about 25% so lots of depth left to take the shock out of bumps. Really handy that they are supplied in a variety of widths.

https://bengar.de/en/polster-sitze-s..._from_store=en

I have achieved 17+kts with all 15hp/3.5m-3.8m SIBs but yours is that bit larger, broader and heavier than most. It's never all about the speed of course but worth getting a small tach to see if the OB is doing its best with the prop pitch fitted.

As part of our general weight reduction and declutter drive... helped by downsizing to a 9.8 from previous 15/20hp motors... I junked the 25l tank in favour of a 12l plus strong Yamaha 5l and 10l cans (pic beside the usual cheapy green one) either of which can be carried as extra if required on long runs. The 25l full up as a single lift in/out of the SIB was a bit much.

We are committed carry in the car sibbers. At our chosen nearest launch spot of Mersea Island, holidays in Devon/Cornwall and the Scottish West Coast we have been able to set up and launch quickly in places where a trailer would be an absolute liability to manage at the slipway queue and/or find parking for. Of course your area of operation may well be nicely set up for trailed boating giving a different balance of benefits.

From having a quite a few SIBs over the past decade I know that setting up a larger heavier SIB feels much more work than a lighter one. The best in the respect for me has been the recent Elling experiment where it is an easy one person lift and just so manageable off the water combined with the 26kg 9.8 2-stroke. Both the Elling and my current Aerotec are easy single person jobs to pack away.

I sympathise with your drive. Ours is two hours inc a brief coffee stop but once I get there and open the door to the coastal smell and sound of halliards on masts then the setting up all becomes part of the day's pleasure and I don't begrudge it.
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Old 19 July 2021, 15:54   #55
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Thanks. The key with the thwart is learning where to put it. I couldn't play around with it on day two due to needing to nurse the engine rpms. On day one I gave the seat bag cushion to the girls. That generosity ended that evening but as you say the cushioning while better than nothing isn't as good as it could be.

Being able to stow all the kit inside the car and also the option to use the tow rack is invaluable for the exact reasons you say, not everywhere has a launching solution that makes a trailer an easier option. At Beaulieu there is loads of room to bring it in on a trailer, push it off, fill with kit and then drive to the back field to get rid of car and trailer then wander back and hand launch. At that location it's almost a no brainer as I suspect it is at Calshot and some others. Conversely, I'm taking it to Henley in early August where the slipway practically dictates avoiding a trailer at all costs.

It's a big boat but ultimately setting it up and packing away is no different to that of a smaller boat as it's not the weight or size but the time. Having to book launch slots, work around tides, road traffic and focussing on two children (who are remarkably good but that never stops you focussing on them and those around them) is giving me a clear suggestion that if they wish to keep using Buckler's Hard then pushing two hours of prep to either side of the day so as to maximise time on water makes a lot of sense.

For example, if the conditions align, I'd love to launch mid morning on a low tide and then spend loads of time at Cowes or using a donut round by Osbourne before returning when the tide is still relatively high and I'm not sure that's feasible unless I cut out the set up times.

I am however, loathed to spend the money on a trailer as I was proud of setting a modest budget and getting it all done within that. A trailer is going to be an easy £1500 hit so I need to consider the upsides bit today those upsides feel pretty robust and not helped at all by the children repeatedly saying that they love their new boat and asking how soon they can return!!
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Old 19 July 2021, 17:54   #56
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It sounds like you very much have the right boat in a SIB but may need the flexibility to have trailer/no trailer depending on proposed location.

I assume you mean 2hrs as a combined setup/pack away time?
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Old 19 July 2021, 18:41   #57
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Yes. The boat takes about 30 minutes to set up if the worker is not interrupted. With interruptions it heads north so rounded to an hour gives leeway. Pack up takes a little longer than half an hour so the crude overall estimate is a couple of hours.
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Old 19 July 2021, 18:53   #58
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That sounds about right. Both our setup and pack away are often slowed down by "what sort of dog is that" and " will it fit back in the bag again" type interactions... plus Mrs F wandering off to get coffee etc. So it's never in a TV gameshow style challenge sort of time.
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Old 19 July 2021, 20:08   #59
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Hi Tim, good write up. It sounds as though you will have loads of fun and good times with the kids on your new SIB.
I differed from you in that I never had the intention of inflating and deflating every time I used the SIB. Most of the time I use it is when I'm away on holiday so I want to keep it inflated for the duration. For the first 12 months we put it on the roof of the truck, good idea until Diane gave the ultimation of its "me or the boat", it was tempting but that would have been expensive
So I bought a road base trailer for £162 on fleabay which I can fully dismatle to go in the caravan.

https://www.rib.net/forum/f49/carava...ler-86495.html

It works like a dream. Just back from West Wales and The Gower, and to be honest we wouldn't have enjoyed the holiday half as much without the trailer. My two penth worth is go for it, you won't regret it - but there is no need to spend £1500!!!
All in with the trailer, struts, bunks, hitch lock - £250 ish.
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Old 19 July 2021, 20:55   #60
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Thanks Steve.

I've found the Extreme and Snipe bunk trailers but I do hate paying VAT so always try and buy used but I didn't have much joy finding anything today. I checked Ebay and a few boating sites.

I guess gumtree and Facebook these days are the better haunts?
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