Outboard for an Excel Volante 390?

[TmMorris]

Well, time will tell if I've done a good job. Probably via me jettisoning myself out the back half way to Cowes.

Marked out the areas with frog tape, gave a good couple of wipes with MEK until a little sticky then applied a layer of glue and left it for 20 or so minutes before applying a second coat and just waiting until it had gone tacky then placing the handle on and working out with a bit of shaped wood.







The two blues are a pretty good match so they blend in well. I couldn't decide whether to trim the handles to fit around the grey upper strip but left as is in the end. I may regret that from a visual perspective but as the rear handles will have 18 stone of me hanging onto one of them I wanted as large a contact area as possible.

[Steve509926]

The blue ones look a near identical colour match.

[Fenlander]

I think they look fine as-is... to have cut down to avoid overlapping the grey would perhaps have weakened that side a bit losing the "flange" beyond the strap reinforcement area.

[TmMorris]

Yup. The other option was to move them further inside a d slice slots in them for the seat rails. Ultimately I erred on the side of caution.

[TmMorris]

Over supper on Thursday we were talking about going to find the seals in CH. I happened to notice that the tides were good for yesterday, the weather looked ok and the girls wanted to go so I spent that evening setting up and hitching the trailer.

No rush in the morning as low water was 4pm so we headed off just before 10, arrived 12.30 and it took hardly any time to put the tubes up to full pressure, carry the kit down to the pontoon and walk the boat down what was becoming a rather long concrete slipway by this time and a slightly looming dread with regards to pulling the boat back out at around 5pm when it would still be low water.

This dread was further added to by a nice gentleman, who was waiting for a boat to return, who was explaining to my children where the seals were, what they were and just happened to mention something which I had comprehensively failed to appreciate, that it was springs.

The other thing that struck me as I was launching and then getting everything stowed and the engine running (another mini adventure to return to shortly) was something which I'd forgotten which was not just the helpfulness of other people on the water but the common sense of it. While you're fettling with the final details they will engage with your children. The single most helpful thing anyone can do to help someone out. Not stand over you discussing why your engine won't start or talking to you while your poor brain is trying to fix a problem while also keeping an eye on your children. Instead, they will talk to your children leaving you almost 80% free to sort stuff out.

Anyway, the outboard would start and would rev ok but wouldn't hold anything close to tickover. I'd got it running perfectly at home so was slightly annoyed but hardly surprised as outboards love to work perfectly at home and then get a monk on as soon as you drop them into dirty, salty water. I had put the 4hp in the boot as back up but wasn't relishing the hassle of a changeover.

Given a few moments peace to just stare at the engine and attempt to engage brain I eventually decided that it must be the air mix. It ran perfectly at home and was running perfectly at higher rpm. I'd set the mix on a 30 degree day and at altitude. Neither should make that much of a difference but they were the only variables at play. So, long story short, a few turns of the idle screw and we were purring like a kitten on tick over. It was about two turns to lean and half back from hiccuping. I was actually quite surprised at this. The only two variables were about 300m of altitude and 10c in temp. Maybe Welsh air coming over the Cotswolds that day was better quality than the French stuff down on the South coast. Who knows but we were up and running and away, off to the mouth to tear those new handles.



The handles worked well and were very useful. There were some good sized rollers once beyond the mouth and with just the beginning of white horses. This made for good fun for the children and a trip down memory Lane for me as I was soon remembering the best way to approach rollers in either direction.

The fun arrived on one of the return runs to the harbour when I fluffed coming off the front of a wave and dug the port side bow in, allowing a good solid dollop of water over and heading my way. Luckily number one child was there between me and the water and took the full blast. Someone did tell me a while back that eventually children would become useful members of the family.

With one soaked and another soggy child the unanimous decision was made to go seal hunting. I'm actually proud of my eldest at this point as she is a skinny child who soon shivers in a pool and must have been really quite cold by now but was laughing and not requesting to go ashore to change (note to self, get them some boating trousers next season).

We'd been given pointers to where the seals were, firstly by a helpful ribnetter and then by a couple of people at the marina.

The plan had been to mock up a bit of a hunt for the girls by taking them up a few creeks first before going up the ones where I believed they were but having just drenched them I decided the more logical action was to simply follow the boat full of tourists that at low tide could only be going to one place.

About 100 yards in there they were, half a dozen harbour and grey seals lying on the mud staring at the boats. What was nice to see was that the few other boats there all kept to the other bank and didn't hang around long. What I then decided to do was head on up the creek and a few hundred yards later we found a much larger group of over twenty which was rather lovely to discover.



We then let them be and headed back into the harbour where a bit of rowing practice put some warmth into the rather cold girls before heading back to the marina to face the task of hauling the boat out only an hour into a rising spring!!

This was where paying to use the marina paid its dividends as the girls could grab their wet bags and take themselves to the changing rooms to wash, dry and put fresh clothes on while I faced the slightly daunting task of taking the boat out.

The slipway had about 20 foot of wet and slightly slippery surface showing and having unloaded the boat so that only the outboard remained I wasn't sure if my feet would find enough traction or if I'd have to resort to removing the engine, or even getting the trailer although my back up plan was to go and find some supper and wait for the tide. But this was where the lifting handles paid off. I was able to dig the feet in and haul the boat a couple of feet at a time until at the dry point and then walk it the rest of the way.

It was then easy to go and fetch the car and trailer, by which time two warm, dry and happy children had returned to help put the boat on the trailer and pack away.

All in an excellent last minute trip that vindicated the lifting handles and the unexpected purchase of the trailer. Being able to just arrive and go and then leave with the setup, clean and pack up pushed to being domestic chores was an enormous gain for us. At the same time, learning that some proper wet proofs for the girls will allow for a wider range of usage opportunities and that while I have some PVC glue left over it might be sensible to glue a sacrificial patch to the underside of the hull where the bow sits on the ground might be a sensible addition.

[GuyC]

Originally Posted by TmMorris

Went to collect the Extreme trailer today. I have to say that it's a very simple and well made bit of kit and the company were a pleasure to deal with.



Took a couple of hours to set it up for the boat and then stick on the BoatWorld cover that I'd bought in preparation.





All in very pleased and I think it will make using the boat much easier. The plan is to unload the boat on arrival and still hand launch.

That's a very nice Range Rover. I often kick myself for not buying either a two door or an LSE when they were significantly more affordable.

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by GuyC

That's a very nice Range Rover. I often kick myself for not buying either a two door or an LSE when they were significantly more affordable.

Thanks. I love them and have had one since I was in my early 20s and they were dirt cheap, do anything wagons that you could fix yourself.

This one is probably my last one as prices are now far too high for what they are and would tend to stop you from using them as an every day knockabout which is what this one exists for.

Having owned all incarnations of them over the last 25 years this one is a Frankenstein job of all of he bits that I like from all types. As such it's a fully dip galvanised 72 2 door but uses more comfortable interior parts from an early 90s car and with all the little road handling bits of the end of the line Disco 1 which was arguably the first LR vehicle that drove more like a road vehicle than an offroad one so the arbs, harmonic dampers, axle weights, steering damper and springs.

Prior to building this one, I owned the last LSE Overfinch built which was a properly silly car but sold that when someone offered silly money for it.

[Brinormeg]

Good to see that trailer setup has really worked out for you and the new handles were a success. The main thing is you are getting out there and all enjoying the experience.

I dont know if it has been discussed before, but have you thought about a removable bow dodger to give the girls a bit of shelter? If not keen to buy one I am sure a man of your fetling abilities could easily make one up.

With accidents , stupid injuries, car issues, now back to work, and the weather, we still havent managed out on the volaire. But the good news is that instead of full replacement of the boat as he offered due to the different coloured patches, Terry has agreed to send me various items to compensate, including the excel bow dodger, which I believe Steve and PD use.
But anyway hoping next weekend might be launch date for us.....finally!

[TmMorris]

Thanks. Yes, I'd already mocked up a bow dodger but the fabric was a bit too heavy duty for the flexible gram poles I had lying about and as the intent was pure fair weather use then I had shelved the design for this season. The Excel bow dodger looks ideal but they didn't have any in stock at the time and the date I was given was September. Are they now in stock?

[Brinormeg]

Not quite yet...he just said soon! But yeah september is soon unfortunately
Oh .....home bargains have cheap goog quality garden kneeling pads at 99p that slot into their seat cusions perfectly!

I did say I would rather have the type of bow canopy that you dont have to glue pads to the bow (clip on strake instead) but he didnt say what tpye were going to be in stock.

[TmMorris]

Agree. The later clip version is the one to aim for.

What was good about the boat was that despite a few large buckets of water coming over the side the deck cleared instantly and the water seemed to then drain well from the bilges and when out in the Solent it felt beautifully stable and very reassuring. I'd say it was a better boat for the job than the dellquay dory that I grew up with and adjusting to tiller controls in a bit of a swell was simple enough.

I think I might fit a tacho over winter so that I can see what rpm it's pulling as the one feeling that I got was that although the boat and engine are trimmed correctly the note at WOT was too low, suggesting a different prop might be worth trying but it hops onto the plane extremely easily and given that I didn't notice any kind of struggling when the Solent was much more calm last time out, I have a feeling that it was the conditions rather than the prop yesterday.

In addition, having just spent a relaxing couple of hours flushing the engine and hosing down the boat, I do feel completely vindicated with the purchase of the trailer. It makes everything much quicker and simpler for last minute escapes that entail at least 5 hours of driving time with young children. But the best part of the trip, despite finding that all the previous fettling had been worthwhile was two children who didn't care that they were soaking and cold and were instead excited to find the seals and are still talking about it today. You always half expect them to go off a new venture after a soaking like that and a grey day.

All in, it seems a good few bits of kit at a fair enough outlay that is achieving the intent of teaching them something completely new and a useful set of life skills and experiences.

Next step, if the stars align, will be to get them on the tiller and practicing boat control but they've come a long way from following ducklings on the river Avon back in April with the little Redcrest to crossing the Solent to Cowes and now finding seals.

The big problem is that they now want to go and find the porpoises off Weymouth so I suspect they'll end the season disappointed.

[Fenlander]

It's great to read the evolution of your outfit TM... an evolution that is actually pretty quick compared to many of us. I am just a tiny bit envious of you finding the opportunity to get to Chichester as it was a stomping ground of my childhood (which I may have mentioned before hence I'll say no more) so holds some very positive memories.

Re the poor idle I first read it that you were two turns wrong but on re-reading I think you were half a turn wrong?? I usually set to the perfect mid point in the tank then wind out 1/4 turn which seems to be right on the water to prevent a "lean sneeze" on throttling up.

You do seem to have a lot of kit at the bow which looks a bit exposed to bouncing out but I see you are on the bow canopy investigation already.

[TmMorris]

Thanks David. Something that reminds me I'm getting old is that when I signed up I'm sure I'd typed Tim in the username but have since realised that I'd misspelt my own name and I've not been able to find a way to correct that!

I remember you mentioning CH. we rarely sailed round from Beaulieu in that direction but my one childhood memory is of my father putting me in the Redcrest at the mouth of the harbour during a falling tide and instructing me to row back in to the first channel buoy. I must have been about 10 or 11 and a pretty robust rower by then but the lesson of spending half an hour going backwards has stuck with me.

The kit in the bow is as follows: the red bag is the anchor and pump. The anchor is tethered to the internal ring and the bag is also clipped to it. The blue and yellow bags are the girl's clothing and they shackle to the new hand holds. The orange bag is my change of clothing. It all generally wedges down around the fuel tank. The bags potentially could hop over the gunwales but wouldn't go in the drink. I'm a shackle and caribiner fanatic so even the cool box between the thwarts has a pair to stop it moving should it decide to.

I think the caribiner religion was founded back in my youth when crossing a three line bridge over a very cold river to a bothy at the foot of Ben Nevis and my backpack had the case of beer in it for the week's stay. I had a caribiner on the backpack so just clipped the beer bag onto one of the lines to get across safely and easily. Unlike the other beer carrier who went in the drink.

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by TmMorris

The big problem is that they now want to go and find the porpoises off Weymouth so I suspect they'll end the season disappointed.

Get the girls over to New Quay in West Wales Tim. 99.9% certainty to see lots of dolphins.

[TmMorris]

Thanks Steve. I think disappointment will be the easier option.

Going back to the original issue I had with the outboard, I'm now convinced it runs on 100:1 not 50.

Checking the plugs today showed a nice brown colour and a small amount of oil residue which is what I'd expect for the use it got yesterday. Plus, a conversation with my father last week where he was adamant that Yamaha's maybe even up to 40hp by the mid/late 80s stood out from Mercury by being 100:1 as his 20 Merc was stolen in the late 80s and his decision to replace with a 30 Yamaha was guided by it using the same mix as the 4 in the boat locker.

[TmMorris]

Decided that this week could be the final good days of Summer and potentially the last opportunity to get out on the water this season so dropped the children at school and headed down to Beaulieu for a day on my own and therefor an opportunity to think about the whole rig and learn more about the boat.

And to take some of the dullest and pointless photos of the season:

Leaving Beaulieu


After a very straight forward launch near high tide where I simply pushed the boat off its trailer, got rid of the car and then walked the boat into the water and hopped onboard, I then had the delights of the engine issue again.

The engine will start first pull from cold and idle perfectly and rev up nicely in and out of gear in the bucket at home but dip it in salt water on the back of a boat and it soils itself at the thought of doing some actual work.

As before, enriching the idle was the key bit by quite a bit this time.

Set off about just before high water. I had planned to be setting off a couple of hours before high water but had the school run last minute.

Weather was perfect and the plan was to head over to Cowes. The Solent was good but had that classic chop. The things I was able to notice due to being out on my own were:

In a certain sea it's actually quite hard to maintain throttle with this set up. You're on the plane but keeping the speed down but each time you turn the tiller you're at that throttle point where the tiniest of movements will slump the power. It would be nicer to have a much more progressive throttle at that point but I doubt that is plausible.

The hull is also quite susceptible to a certain type of wave where the boat will simply follow the wave. This must be the nature of the flat, non rigid floor and a mild V.

The engine won't go much beyond 3/4 rpm. This may be partially prop but it's down on power since initial use and there is clearly a fuelling niggle.

Reached Cowes and was running up the Medina but had to back right off the throttle to idle due to another boat missing their intended berth and the engine died. The same as the first time I tested the engine. It would start but needed full choke to fire then quickly in and rev up fine but wouldn't idle. Plugs removed, nice and brown but soaking wet, so running ok on throttle but idle is messy. Pottered up to the Folly.



By this time I had fettled enough to establish that the engine ran smoothest with a bit of choke applied.

Keeping in mind the falling tide and that I hadn't taken the boat out at Beaulieu on a low tide but had never known the Estate to clean the slipway so expected it to be pretty slippery, I headed back out to the Solent and did a quick run round to Osbourne Bay.



Then back to Buckler's Hard.

Despite a day of generally heading against the tides, into winds and over a bit of chop the whole set up felt very draggy at full throttle and the engine was very clearly not getting close to peak RPM. It hops onto the plane very, very easily but top end power is absent. Fuelling was playing a role this time but I think it'll be worth test a different prop next year. Giving away a bit of low down power in exchange for more top end would be logical as there is no shortage at the bottom/mid rpm.

The fuelling is the interesting one. By the time I was in Cowes the idle mix was doing very little regardless of position other than stalling when closed.

I think I'll fully strip the carb and also go all the way down the fuel line to the tank. Check the Reed valves also makes sense. There is definitely some kind of fuelling/mix issue and I'm currently expecting to find some grit somewhere.

[Steve509926]

"Decided that this week could be the final good days of Summer and potentially the last opportunity to get out on the water this seasonSounds like an interesting if not entirely fruitful day!"...................

Bloody hope not Tim, there's all of October and early November left!

My SD360 can sometimes follow the line of a wave, but only when I'm going with the tide. It tends to happen when I lightly loaded and solo.

Sounds like you had a it of a frustrating day!

[TmMorris]

Thanks Steve. Good to know that you find the wave following more prominent when lightly loaded. This makes sense as small amount of V being up the front and the absence of two children to dig it in is probably why I hadn't felt it before.

Frustrating day? On paper but in reality I had 4 hours in the car listening to R4, time on the water to think about the boat rather than safety and entertainment and zero pressure of feeling I was spoiling the kids day over the engine mucking about.

The engine is a bit of an annoyance but the set up works well and I'm pretty sure that rebuilding the carb and the fuel line over winter will be the solution. If I'm dead lucky I will find some muck in the carb.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by TmMorris

Decided that this week could be the final good days of Summer and potentially the last opportunity to get out on the water this season so dropped the children at school and headed down to Beaulieu for a day on my own and therefor an opportunity to think about the whole rig and learn more about the boat.

And to take some of the dullest and pointless photos of the season:

Leaving Beaulieu


After a very straight forward launch near high tide where I simply pushed the boat off its trailer, got rid of the car and then walked the boat into the water and hopped onboard, I then had the delights of the engine issue again.

The engine will start first pull from cold and idle perfectly and rev up nicely in and out of gear in the bucket at home but dip it in salt water on the back of a boat and it soils itself at the thought of doing some actual work.

As before, enriching the idle was the key bit by quite a bit this time.

Set off about just before high water. I had planned to be setting off a couple of hours before high water but had the school run last minute.

Weather was perfect and the plan was to head over to Cowes. The Solent was good but had that classic chop. The things I was able to notice due to being out on my own were:

In a certain sea it's actually quite hard to maintain throttle with this set up. You're on the plane but keeping the speed down but each time you turn the tiller you're at that throttle point where the tiniest of movements will slump the power. It would be nicer to have a much more progressive throttle at that point but I doubt that is plausible.

The hull is also quite susceptible to a certain type of wave where the boat will simply follow the wave. This must be the nature of the flat, non rigid floor and a mild V.

The engine won't go much beyond 3/4 rpm. This may be partially prop but it's down on power since initial use and there is clearly a fuelling niggle.

Reached Cowes and was running up the Medina but had to back right off the throttle to idle due to another boat missing their intended berth and the engine died. The same as the first time I tested the engine. It would start but needed full choke to fire then quickly in and rev up fine but wouldn't idle. Plugs removed, nice and brown but soaking wet, so running ok on throttle but idle is messy. Pottered up to the Folly.



By this time I had fettled enough to establish that the engine ran smoothest with a bit of choke applied.

Keeping in mind the falling tide and that I hadn't taken the boat out at Beaulieu on a low tide but had never known the Estate to clean the slipway so expected it to be pretty slippery, I headed back out to the Solent and did a quick run round to Osbourne Bay.



Then back to Buckler's Hard.

Despite a day of generally heading against the tides, into winds and over a bit of chop the whole set up felt very draggy at full throttle and the engine was very clearly not getting close to peak RPM. It hops onto the plane very, very easily but top end power is absent. Fuelling was playing a role this time but I think it'll be worth test a different prop next year. Giving away a bit of low down power in exchange for more top end would be logical as there is no shortage at the bottom/mid rpm.

The fuelling is the interesting one. By the time I was in Cowes the idle mix was doing very little regardless of position other than stalling when closed.

I think I'll fully strip the carb and also go all the way down the fuel line to the tank. Check the Reed valves also makes sense. There is definitely some kind of fuelling/mix issue and I'm currently expecting to find some grit somewhere.

No expert on carbed 2strokes, but could the starting at home & the difficulty on the water, be back pressure related? On the muffs or shallow bucket, there’s next to no exhaust back pressure. Stick the engine in the water & things are different. Just a thought.

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

No expert on carbed 2strokes, but could the starting at home & the difficulty on the water, be back pressure related? On the muffs or shallow bucket, there’s next to no exhaust back pressure. Stick the engine in the water & things are different. Just a thought.

Thanks. Open to all ideas. I've just fired it up at home and it started first pull and winding the idle in to be 2 turns from fully in and its running beautifully.

It's now a set feature that I can tune it easily and have it running perfectly at home but it won't idle when at the coast. Other than altitude the only logical variable is salt v fresh.

While today I have the prop in a garden tub that just covers the plate, in the past it has been in the wheelie bin and much deeper. I like the idea of back pressure. I've not come across it before with boat engines and certainly never considered it. It has to be worth exploring as I can mark the shaft where it will be on water and just fill the wheelie bin to that level.

In the meantime, I have resolved the absence of high RPM on the last two outings. As soon as I lifted the cover this morning I realised that I had already worked out the problem the last time and just forgotten. I've fitted a throttle limiter so that the children can more safely learn boat control and while I had wound the thread as far out as it will go, I worked out last time that this isn't quite far enough. The addition of the limiter ties in perfectly with the lack of top end in drive. What a buffoon.

All in, I'm extremely happy with the whole rig. Considering I'm new to SIBs, everything has transitioned across and long lost information has made its way back. For what I wanted to achieve its been perfect. I think for next season a bow bag as the air pump and a few other things could be easier to stow and a spray hood would be welcome additions.

It's just this engine idle that I need to resolve and its remarkably annoying that I can't replicate it at home but at least I now have the firm evidence that there is an issue and all I need to do is Poirot the variable. Today seems more like a Cluseau day however.