Outboard help

Sibfun · 22 January 2018, 18:03

Hi .im looking for advice on a 20hp outboard i need a bit of guidance as to which makes to go for.
Looking to spend about£2300

chipko · 22 January 2018, 19:11

Hi,
For that budget I assume your looking new, and there’s probably nothing between the big 5 makes in terms of quality and reliability.
However, for me there are two which stand out from the crowd. The Suzuki DF20 and new Tohatsu MFS20E. Both are considerably lighter at 44 and 43kg and both have the benefit of EFI.

Sibfun · 22 January 2018, 20:05

Thanks to be honest a lot of people have steared me in the Suzuki direction and also tohatsu but not so much mariner

Fenlander · 22 January 2018, 20:38

Chipko sums it up perfectly really. Any of the major 5 are good outboards but the two Chipko advises are the same as I'd choose between now. The reason being their lighter weights compared to others and as important to me... the move to EFI over carb.

In 2016 when I bought my Suzuki 20EFI new it was the lightest and only EFI in its HP class. I decided if I was going to move from decades of decent 2-strokes to a 4-stroke I'd like to get the latest tech.

Now though the Tohatsu has matched the Suzuki and if I were buying now I'd be looking hard at the merits of that vs Suzuki.

It seems currently the Tohatsu and Suzuki are a little over £2400 discounted. The Mariner is the only one usually getting within your stated budget.

Beyond that look at the features of all inc gearchange posns relative to tiller, ease of carrying (handles etc). Also the proximity of a dealer for a particular make may be important. Don't forget the varying servicing needs to keep up the 5yrs+ warranty.

As a matter of interest getting to the less than perfect dealer for yearly servicing has made me take the decision to forget the warranty after year one and self service.

Fenlander · 22 January 2018, 21:16

Couple more small points come to mind that might/might not matter to you...

Some 20s are supplied with a 25l tank and others a 12l. Mine came with a 12l which was too small so it cost me another £50+ for a 25l tank.

4-strokes have differing ways you can lay them down to avoid sump oil getting the wrong places according to make. Mine is on the side and only one specific side.

beamishken · 22 January 2018, 21:37

Personally I wouldnt take a efi over a carb engine at that size for any reason.
It's probably on a small boat and the risk of fuel contamination is fairly high and fitting extra filtration may be impractical
I'd take the simplicity and fixability of a carb engine every time at that size

Fenlander · 22 January 2018, 21:58

>>>the risk of fuel contamination is fairly high

Why so on a small boat with lift out tank? It is so easy to exclude contamination in this circumstance... as opposed to larger craft with integral tanks where there is a greater potential to build up gunge and debris over the years which is an absolute pain to remove.

If you are worried about contamination a see through casing inline filter can be fitted anywhere along the fuel line that suits.

Poly · 22 January 2018, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

>>>the risk of fuel contamination is fairly high

Why so on a small boat?

It’s certainly possible to get water in tanks from a stuff or even a lot of spray/rain etc. The bleed screw is designed to “suck” air in and will suck water in if it’s there. Boats left on moorings or launched through surf are also vulnerable. I’ve had sand in mine - probably from kids putting feet in tank and it then getting in when filling up. Old metal tanks used to suffer from condensation, and rust issues. And of course tanks get left over winter to go stale...

Most of those issues affect bigger boats too, but you can mount the vent above the flooded water line and better protected from rain and usually much harder to contaminate the filler with sandy feet. But I think Ken’s point is on a 5+m boat you can easily fit proper water separators and filters, on a small boat that is harder to do (but not impossible).

breezeblock · 22 January 2018, 22:23

for a 20 hp I would be looking at the parson engines I have had 2 and both have been faultless people won't look at them because of big brand snobbery but I was seriously impressed

Fenlander · 22 January 2018, 22:58

Well fair points to a degree Poly but many of those circumstances I would regard as avoidable by care in use**.

In any case... to take my Suzuki... extra filtration is possibly over the top as it has the in-tank filter, the initial service replaceable fuel filter with water drain plus two further filters in the HP pump before fuel gets to the injectors.

**For example I avoid spray getting anywhere near the tank vent by siting the tank under the Mrs sitting on the seat above so she absorbs all that. And re stored fuel... now we've gone 4-stroke at the end of each outing I sell the unused fuel to my daughter for her car so we don't store any fuel.

But having said all that if any purchaser feels happier with a carb then that's the way to go. For me though the benefit of precisely measured fuel and the loss of the carb massively outweighs any tiny chance an injector might get contaminated.

beamishken · 23 January 2018, 07:07

The risk of fuel contamination from filling with cans and water sloshing around the boat and rain around vents is only too real and Bourne out by the fact so many people have dirty carb problems.
You also get contamination forming in carb bowls when left with modern petrol in for months just waiting to block jets at start up.
Outboard carbs are pretty simple and are generally serviceable by a reasonably capable owner.
The same can't be said for a fuel injector if you get a blocked or corroded injector it's most likely going to be an expensive trip to a dealer (probably on Monday after you missed the sunny weekend) where if it was a carb you'd maybe have spent Saturday morning cursing while cleaning the carb but at least you'd be boating by the afternoon.
To me with smaller outboards simple is and always will be best!

Sibfun · 23 January 2018, 08:14

Thanks to every one who replied.

Fenlander · 23 January 2018, 08:38

>>>The risk of fuel contamination from filling with cans and water sloshing around the boat and rain around vents is only too real

Only if you are sloppy.... easily prevented.

>>>also get contamination forming in carb bowls when left with modern petrol in for months just waiting to block jets at start up.

Yep many have found that a problem and that's why I'm happy to lose the carb so with an EI in storage you have a tiny amount of fuel in a sealed HP system minimising interaction between fuel and air.

>>>To me with smaller outboards simple is and always will be best!

Never fear the tech!

chipko · 23 January 2018, 15:47

Well it would be shame if the op were put off the performance benefits of efi on these portable outboards purely on the basis of poor/careless fuel management. As Fenlander points out 'embrace the tech'

Moving from years of sibbing (last 3 with a Suzuki 20 efi) over to a rib we still use portable tanks. As our rib is powered by a relatively small and frugal 60hp motor we took the decision not to have onboard tanks built in as they too can suffer contamination problems - water ingress, condensation, gunge and debris, stale fuel etc - and an absolute pain to rectify.

For us portable tanks have the benefits of always using fresh fuel with any unused fuel decanted into one of the cars. We fill up direct from Shell/BP pumps and add stabilizer. Never experienced any problems on the sibs with water entering the vent even though we frequently played around in the surf zone. If worried you could always put a plastic cup/bag over the filler vent.

I do agree, if careless with water contaminated/stale fuel etc, then injectors will suffer and a more expensive repair than cleaning out the carbs. You could argue that fuel left in the sealed injector system is less likely than fuel in the carb to go 'off', negating the ritual of running dry after use.

For me the benefits of instant starting, performance, response, fuel consumption, reliability etc.on the latest efi portable outboards far out ways any 'it's too complicated' concerns. Our fuel management is the same for our carburetor and efi motors.

Jamie_B · 23 January 2018, 17:22

Hello Sibfun, as one newbie to another I think you may be worrying too much. As you can see from the replies above there is no definitive answer. Different people have different opinions, would you even know the difference between an engine with a carburettor and one without? I know I wouldn’t! Search locally for one of the big names for the best price, and go and enjoy it, after all it’s only money!

beamishken · 23 January 2018, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipko

Well it would be shame if the op were put off the performance benefits of efi on these portable outboards purely on the basis of poor/careless fuel management/

For me the benefits of instant starting, performance, response, fuel consumption, reliability etc.on the latest efi portable outboards far out ways any 'it's too complicated' concerns. Our fuel management is the same for our carburetor and efi motors.

I doubt there is much if any noticeable benefit from having efi over a carb on any sub 40hp 4 stroke produced in the last 15 years.
fuel consumption is pretty irrelevant at that size, I doubt any recent engines are difficult to start and doubt there is much difference in performance between the two
What I do know for a Fact is if you get contaminated fuel or fuel system problems the EFI will cost substantially more to repair ,will likely not be repairable by the owner and Will probably mean more downtime.
I'm not frightened of tech but in a harsh environment simple is best
Modern 2 strokes are a different matter the savings benefit over an old school 2 stroke will be significant

jeffstevens763@g · 23 January 2018, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poly

It’s certainly possible to get water in tanks from a stuff or even a lot of spray/rain etc. The bleed screw is designed to “suck” air in and will suck water in if it’s there. Boats left on moorings or launched through surf are also vulnerable. I’ve had sand in mine - probably from kids putting feet in tank and it then getting in when filling up. Old metal tanks used to suffer from condensation, and rust issues. And of course tanks get left over winter to go stale...

Most of those issues affect bigger boats too, but you can mount the vent above the flooded water line and better protected from rain and usually much harder to contaminate the filler with sandy feet. But I think Ken’s point is on a 5+m boat you can easily fit proper water separators and filters, on a small boat that is harder to do (but not impossible).

I have fuel water separator on my transom wouldn't be without end of season I drain my tank no issues no problem to fit either.

Max... · 24 January 2018, 08:01

I'd not worry about engine 'tech' - weight and ergonomics are the only issues I'd look at. Not familiar with either (still a 2 stroke man) but if one had a tiller gear shift (and Merc/Mariner 2 stroke type one hand/auto/no lever tilt/trim) I'd have that in a shot.

Fenlander · 24 January 2018, 16:29

All about choices isn't it Max, choice is good. If you wanted to avoid EFI then that excludes the two lightest motors. If you really want the gearchange on twistgrip then it's 8/9kg more to lug the Mercury/Mariner about.

Max... · 24 January 2018, 20:54

Indeed, good news is as (maybe) the supply of good old used 2 strokes is starting to slow then the newer 4 strokes are becoming more appealing and lighter.