Over regulation?

[raymillard]

When I was a kid near Boston, Lincs, Dad and I had a 9 foot clinker dinghy with a Sea Bee 3hp on it. We had it on pram wheels and would walk it down to one of the "Witham Navigable Drains" or to the Witham itself, or to the tidal Haven.

We launched it anywhere we could get to the water, and we didn't have licences, insurance, certificates of competency or safety certificates.

We had a ball!

In 5 or 6 years of doing this, the only incident we had was when the outboard picked up an angler's line and pulled his fishing rod into the water. It was all sorted very quickly and ended in fits of giggles all round.

Fast Forward 50 odd years. Now, to do the same thing in those same places we'd need everything bar the safety certificate. In addition, there would be local regulations, telling us that we'd need enough safety gear to sink a liner; where and how we should launch; how our insurance should be for 5 million pounds, and how we must belong to a local club. And someone would be at the launch site with a Debit Card machine.

Actually, I've got the insurance; I've got Powerboat Intermediate, and we carry the gear we know we might need.
But we do that because we want to. What we don't want is some officious jobsworth from the Council or the Environment Agency telling us what we can or cannot do.

Rant over, but I'll ask a question: is boating, with all the regulations we now have, any safer than it was 50 years ago? I very much doubt it.

[m chappelow]

Ah the old j.a.p engined Sea Bee what memories , like a streamlined seagull lol the same type engine powered our lawn mower too .
we had one powering a home built 6 foot pram dinghy that me old man made for me in the early 1960s in the front room of our house when I was 6 out of a sheet of 10 x 4 marine ply

Pull and go just had to remember which way the boat was pointing if it dident start ,
Only incident we ever had was the local fire brigade engine each month would test their fire hoses out and have a play squirting water about onto the canal , one fireman decided it would be funny to give me a short blast which blew me out of the boat my old man was not too pleased about it .

[Poly]

Originally Posted by raymillard

Rant over, but I'll ask a question: is boating, with all the regulations we now have, any safer than it was 50 years ago? I very much doubt it.

Its a recurring theme which has been discussed on here many a time. In general boating in the UK is still completely unregulated and any idiot can turn up and go. I've only ever had to produce a certificate of insurance once and that was to use a slipway by special arrangement. Nobody, including the insurance co, has ever been interested in my competence or otherwise.

[m chappelow]

I am all for safety !
But like most things having lots of rules and regulations and certifications somewhere down the line it's just becomes a money making product to sell to someone .
my I.c.c. Runs out shortly, only this morning I received a reminder letter saying to renew it it's now going to cost me £50 for another 5 years for what.

[SR4]

Wait unti you have to send in the renewal form, even though the RYA have issued you one in the past and have your details, you have to re send proof of ID and residency like driving licence e.t.c. AGAIN, what an absolute waste of everyones time and money with idiotic bureaucratic systems, got to try and justify the rip off £50 fee somehow

[kitten]

Originally Posted by raymillard

Rant over, but I'll ask a question: is boating, with all the regulations we now have, any safer than it was 50 years ago? I very much doubt it.

IMHO 50 years ago (I don't quite remember 50 years ago, maybe40), most people who went boating had a boating background, grew up with the hazards and the do's and dont's of boating they knew it could be dangerous.
Nowadays it's just anyone with some gear and no idea, plus there are ten times as many on the water so incidents are going to go up.

[9D280]

And of course common sense isn't as common as it used to be......

[wavelength]

going to cost me £50 for another 5 years for what

if ya dont need it, and don't know "for what" , then don't renew it - job done surely.

[GJ0KYZ]

Originally Posted by 9D280

And of course common sense isn't as common as it used to be......

Nostalgia is not was it used to be either.

[m chappelow]

Originally Posted by wavelength

if ya dont need it, and don't know "for what" , then don't renew it - job done surely.

Ok i know what its actually for I took the test so i am not exactly a retard though a few may beg to differ lol
why not make it a lifetime issue ,it's not like you need to do a refresher course or test every 5 years or have a drugs or medical test for it .
Just seems to be a monopoly money making jobs for the boys type of thing .

my wife took her cycling proficency test when she was 8 years old but she doesent have to renew it and part with a load of cash every 5 years

[m chappelow]

Originally Posted by GJ0KYZ

Nostalgia is not was it used to be either.

Good old days !
you can't beat a couple of crushed thumbs , wet backside, wet foot , clonk on the head and a few rope burns on the palms of your hands and skinned elbow from the exposed spinning flywheel of a seagull outboard plus the taste of 1/10 petrol mix when blowing out the jets in the carb
oh and the chaff on your wrists from the elastic cuffs of a Brinylon anorack and the Victory) ex ww2 kapok lifejacket around your neck from the local surplus army and navy store .
And always having on the forefront of your mind to swim away from the 6 ft pram dinghy if it sinks in case you get pulled down with it , well I was only 6 .and always watched the war films on tv on a Sunday afternoon lol

[raymillard]

What a great childhood you had! Rather like mine and our kids at that age. We lived in Cley and had a big old open boat moored by the mill. Once or twice a year we'd take them to school in Blakeney by boat. Good times!!
But all things must pass. They are grown up now: one's a nurse and the other rebuilds old VW Beetles and Campervans. But we still get out on the water. Nowadays though, is no longer waterline speed only. Aren't RIBs and SIBS just great!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by m chappelow

Ok i know what its actually for I took the test so i am not exactly a retard though a few may beg to differ lol

do you actually go boating abroad though? if not or only very infrequently then why renew it until you need it? As I understand it there is no difference in cost or process between renewing a lapsed ICC and an almost expired one?

why not make it a lifetime issue ,it's not like you need to do a refresher course or test every 5 years or have a drugs or medical test for it .

I'd guess there may be some rules within the international agreement that set it up which means it cannot be issued indefinitely? IIRC they have a photo don't they which also makes issuing lifetime versions harder.

Just seems to be a monopoly money making jobs for the boys type of thing .

as Doug at storm force pointed out on the other recent thread its not a monopoly there are other ways to get an ICC - they all cost more!

my wife took her cycling proficency test when she was 8 years old but she doesent have to renew it and part with a load of cash every 5 years

but a cycling proficiency test doesn't actually entitle you to do anything; a better analogy would be a driving licence or even a passport where every 10 yrs you need to pay to renew it and update the photo - in return for the bit of paper you get to do something.

[m chappelow]

Thanks for clearing up those issues Poly
Funny thing is that I had to rescue the instructor and examiner much to their embarrasment a couple of months before I did the test when they were blown hard aground on a local man made reef

[awa154]

Hi, First time poster. Here in NZ, we are supposed to carry a life jacket for each person on board, but no requirement to actually wear the thing.
Insurance, boat rego/name, communication equipment, are not compulsory. Nor any form of licenceing, or instructional certification required.

To operate a motor powered vessel, you are supposed to be 15yrs.

Years ago almost all schools had a swimming pool and most children learnt to swim. With the onset of the PC brigade, Most schools have closed the pools, and NZ's drowning rate has gone through the roof. We have almost, an entire generation who can not swim.

I think regulations may raise awareness of the dangers for some, but for many, some rules are an overkill.

Regulations dont compensate for common sense.