Prolonging air retention on older pvc tubes - any products out there?

[daijinks]

Has anyone used a product inside or out that helps retain air longer in pvc tubes?
The valves are fine and no leak detected on this rib but it's 10- 15 years old in good condition but starts to deflate after and hour or so but quite slowly until about 4 hours when it's half deflated.

Any magic sprays or conditions out there to used to halt this?

It's an Adventure k450. Ukrainian make.

Thanks

[fastasfox]

Originally Posted by daijinks

Has anyone used a product inside or out that helps retain air longer in pvc tubes?
The valves are fine and no leak detected on this rib but it's 10- 15 years old in good condition but starts to deflate after and hour or so but quite slowly until about 4 hours when it's half deflated.

Any magic sprays or conditions out there to used to halt this?

It's an Adventure k450. Ukrainian make.

Thanks

I was told by the guy's at xs ribs that Polyurethane material becomes porous over time and the only solution would be a re-tube. Apparently there is an old trick of pouring olive oil into the chambers and rolling the rib over a few times....but i don't know if this would work.
All you can do is keep topping her up and start saving for new sponsons.....good luck.

[Limecc]

I've not much experience but I'd say thats a leak you can find and fix, perhaps regluing a leaky seam? I think I recall Fenlander repairing something similar on his Bombard, try the forum search function - there must be lots of examples.

Otherwise I wouldn't add oil, maybe latex anti-puncture tyre gunge would work better.

[telecast]

I would try spraying with a soapy water mixture and looking for where the bubbles are.

Then you have some idea what you are dealing with.

Post some pictures - I’m sure someone will offer advice.

[fastasfox]

Originally Posted by telecast

I would try spraying with a soapy water mixture and looking for where the bubbles are.

Then you have some idea what you are dealing with.

Post some pictures - I’m sure someone will offer advice.

The only problem is the leaks are so tiny and so many that apparently it's an impossible fix. I guess he could paint rhe tubes but this is putting off the inevitable..not my view you understand but a chap at xs ribs who used to build tornado ribs (polyurethane)

[daijinks]

Originally Posted by fastasfox

The only problem is the leaks are so tiny and so many that apparently it's an impossible fix. I guess he could paint rhe tubes but this is putting off the inevitable..not my view you understand but a chap at xs ribs who used to build tornado ribs (polyurethane)

Yes I understand it’s inevitable that it’s skin simply goes beyond repair for air tightness.
The whole rib looks in really good condition mind and having a new value fitted recently I was told that once the texture of the tubes feels smooth (generally on the upper circumference of them) then it’s prone to losing air tightness.
Perhaps just painting a skin of magic on these upper areas with something will ease the problem and retain an aesthetic too to the craft I guess.

I couldn’t find Fenlanders advice about trouble shooting similar problems with his Bombard on this site, can anyone link me up to that ?

I can try and post pics but there’s not much deteration to see.
Will be on the soapy spray tomorrow. 360.

[Oldman2]

Originally Posted by daijinks

I couldn’t find Fenlanders advice about trouble shooting similar problems with his Bombard on this site, can anyone link me up to that ?

This I think is the thread you were looking for https://www.rib.net/forum/f50/challe...air-79857.html

[SoCal Hurricane]

Gents... look up “toob seal” from bixlers marine. Simple and cost effective solution here. It’s the only stuff out there that actually works inside.

Once done, you’ll want to repaint/coat the outside of the tubes as well.

[Limecc]

Originally Posted by Oldman2

This I think is the thread you were looking for https://www.rib.net/forum/f50/challe...air-79857.html

Thanks Oldman.

Fenlander showed what can be done with patience. Think of it as a bigger hole and be glad it's not worse than it is.

Re other advice to paint the tubes externally, this is a last resort cosmetic used before scrapping old and ugly tubes. Personally wouldn't try it as a leak repair.

If you want some professional help then you might consider giving ribfix.co.uk a call. Ex-Ribcraft and ex-Henshaw, Tom's now gone freelance, he has the skills and connections to actually make new tubes, not just retube with OEM ones. He's based in Yeovil, Somerset so not a million miles away.

https://www.rib.net/forum/f64/new-to...ene-86078.html

[Limecc]

Originally Posted by Limecc

If you want some professional help then you might consider giving ribfix.co.uk a call. Ex-Ribcraft and ex-Henshaw, Tom's now gone freelance, he has the skills and connections to actually make new tubes, not just retube with OEM ones. He's based in Yeovil, Somerset so not a million miles away.

I wasn't suggesting a re-tube, just that a repair would be an easy thing for someone of this caliber.

[jonp]

Ive used this from inland marine with no complaints, even use it in my sons tubeless bike tyres and never had a flat since (so far!!) https://mobile.inlandmarine.us/products/sealant/

[SoCal Hurricane]

The inland marine stuff can reactivate with heat, IE; the sun. Then the tubes can stick to themselves if not careful.

Toob seal won’t reactivate and will also get into the pores better under pressure to dry as it’s a little less dense.

Just my two cents here... at the end of the day the best repair is whatever works!

[Roflhat]

Liquid latex works perfectly, usually the same as the special marine branded products only they're much more expensive.
Can get it on ebay etc pretty cheap. Pour it in through the valves then roll the boat around as much as possible to coat the inside of the tubes. Makes a big difference, on my old thundercat it went from holding pressure for 2 days to around 14. Valves do get a bit sticky after pouring latex in but can be cleaned up, well worth doing. On the thundercat I used around 500ml per tube section and 1x 500ml between the 2 hijackers

[jonp]

Originally Posted by SoCal Hurricane

The inland marine stuff can reactivate with heat, IE; the sun. Then the tubes can stick to themselves if not careful.

Toob seal won’t reactivate and will also get into the pores better under pressure to dry as it’s a little less dense.

Just my two cents here... at the end of the day the best repair is whatever works!

Where have you seen that happen ? Im in Australia and it gets pretty hot here and never had an issue. Ive fixed ribs, exercise balls and bike tyres with it, all of which have been deflated and inflated again without any sticking. I was recommended this by a repair service who repair the Navy and other government vessels.

[SoCal Hurricane]

First off... I’m wasn’t looking for a pissing match here - so I hope that’s not the case; just saying that when used on zodiac and wing tubes for US Navy vessels, specifically ones that get rolled up (FC470 and Wing 4.7), they were prone to sticking after having sat rolled up for a while. If being used on a RHIB, then I would think it would be less of an issue as they juts hang on the boat.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by fastasfox

The only problem is the leaks are so tiny and so many that apparently it's an impossible fix. I guess he could paint rhe tubes but this is putting off the inevitable..not my view you understand but a chap at xs ribs who used to build tornado ribs (polyurethane)

But the OP's boat is PVC not PU they are different things. The speed of the leak also sounds more like a small seam failure or pin prick than the whole tube going porous, but I suppose at some point if it is that porous it will be just as bad...

[SoCal Hurricane]

Here are some examples of leaks that can be corrected with interior sealant. It’s also good practice to re-coat the exterior as well. Unless the material itself is just so old that it’s beyond repair, an interior and exterior refurb can get you 3-5 more years of life out of a set of tubes.

[spartacus]

I've used this stuff from Polymarine on an old Zodiac GT years ago and it bought me a little more time.
https://www.polymarineshop.com/product/sealflex-500ml/

Just as Roflhat's instructions, regards quantities and application.

[jonp]

Originally Posted by SoCal Hurricane

First off... I’m wasn’t looking for a pissing match here - so I hope that’s not the case; just saying that when used on zodiac and wing tubes for US Navy vessels, specifically ones that get rolled up (FC470 and Wing 4.7), they were prone to sticking after having sat rolled up for a while. If being used on a RHIB, then I would think it would be less of an issue as they juts hang on the boat.

No its not a pissing match and I have no affiliation with the product apart from being recommended it by a repair guy who repairs navy zodiac's. For me its a case of wanting to know if you have had this issue happen or if its just hear say from a rumour that may of simply come from possibly a dealer selling a different product (you know how they can be!!!). For both myself and anyone who is watching this thread, we all want to find a product that will actually do what its intended to do and if people like yourself have had this issue then we know to stay clear of it. However, Ive not had any issues and I find it hard to believe I was recommended it in such a hot country. Just to add, the guy who recommended it here in Australia didn't sell it, I had to purchase it from the USA.

Thanks for the heads up, I will certainly test the product out more now that you've mentioned it.

[daijinks]

Thanks everyone for the constructive help and links. Tom at ribfix is a terrific advisor and if we weren’t so far away in west Wales then he would be the go to repairer for resurrection.

I’m thinking the latex shots and spinning the boat is a good cheap fix but it needs lots of planning and set up.

More thorough leak detecting to be done first.

It’s the engine set up that makes us want to save this cheapo craft. A Tohatsu 50 auto mix with all the electrics.