Quicksilver 340 Sport or a Honda T3.2??

[Andy JC]

Originally Posted by Lordy

There was me believing the build quality on a Zodiac didn't come much better, certainly in the smaller RIB/SIB market.

Is it possible you just had a Friday afternoon special

It's possible my Cadet was a 'Friday afternoon special' as the Zodiac Futura I previously had was made very well in comparison. The Cadet managed to pick up 6 punctures in about 5 outings in various places under various conditions. I started to get a bit p*ssed off with repairing punctures as well as knowing that every repair was going to lower the resale value
It's a very light boat for it's size(36kg - 3.4mtrs) and I think this is partly due to the fabric being very thin and so not particularly tough, probably ok for light use but not for what I wanted.
There are a few reports of poor build quality of Zodiacs, a post by Floater here is one: http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14988&page=3

Nick; good idea to get both floor types, might be a bit expensive though

Lordy; the Bormbard is only available with an airdeck, it's a well specced boat though, albeit a little pricey

Although the QS was a very close contender I decided against it in the end as a couple of dealers I called said that don't get any demand for them anymore and I figured if I have to sell it on it may not be very easy to shift.

Ended up buying a Honda 3.2 airdeck yesterday from Advanced Marine in Portishead. He dropped the price to £790 which although slightly cheaper at Seamark Nunn I thought it would be easier to take it back if any problems arise.
Lets hope the Honda's build quality is better than the Zodiac Cadets

[Andy JC]

Had second thoughts this morning and decided to change my order for a Honda T38, the 3.8Mtr airdeck version. I thought for an extra 10kg I get over 1/2 mtr more boat

Looking at the specs and design it appears to be very similar to the Bombard Aerotec 380 except being a few kilos heavier and quite a bit cheaper (paid £865)

Nick, do you find your Aerotec goes ok with a 15hp even though it's rated for up to a 25hp?? Have you ever had it on the plane with 4 adults or if not, do you think it would be capable??

Has anybody here owned a T38 and if so what do you think of them?

Appreciate all the comments and advice BTW

[ian parkes]

Originally Posted by Andyboy

Had second thoughts this morning and decided to change my order for a Honda T38, the 3.8Mtr airdeck version. I thought for an extra 10kg I get over 1/2 mtr more boat

Looking at the specs and design it appears to be very similar to the Bombard Aerotec 380 except being a few kilos heavier and quite a bit cheaper (paid £865)

Nick, do you find your Aerotec goes ok with a 15hp even though it's rated for up to a 25hp?? Have you ever had it on the plane with 4 adults or if not, do you think it would be capable??

Has anybody here owned a T38 and if so what do you think of them?

Appreciate all the comments and advice BTW

Yes i had a 3.8 honda airdeck with a honda 20 .
I have been reading this thinking , why not buy the 3.8

I was impressed with the quality and the performance ,Its a deep V for a sib and seemed to handle and turn very well indeed .I think the extended floor at the rear is its advantage .
like all sibs it was very uncomfortable in a chop .
It did about 18mph on the gps with 3 people and some kit so yes it would plane with 4 people positioned evenly . It was best with 2 adults , and a bit scary with just me if it was rough or windy . probably go even better with the 2 stroke .
Get a transom tank as the normal tank strapped to the floor is a PITA and not nice to land on .

[MustRib]

Totally second Ian's comments about the 3.8m.
I have one as well as the SR4.
The 3.8 handles well for a SIB and takes a bit of chop better than most.
I have a Yam 20hp 2 stroke on the back. It fair flies along with this on...
sits up a bit alarmingly for a few secs until it gets on the plane but then is no bother at all.
With a bit of chop running, the fuel tank will shift about no matter how hard I strap it down, and in a hard landing the seat will pop out of its holders...so now I leave that at home!
A transom fuel tank sounds like a good idea, especially if you have a few onboard and therefore no issues about weight distribution if you are running a heavy ob on the back.
Before the 20 hp Yam, I had a 15 hp Mariner 2 stroke.
It went well with this fitted, (but as this was before I had my SR4) I was always trying to coax a little more out of the 15 hp to satisfy my need for speed! I find the 20hp Yam gives it a little more oomph and mid range pick up.
The 3.8 feels nice and safe...big tubes...and as Ian says the hull V is quite pronounced and definitely makes it handle well.
I have my motor trimmed all the way in now and find its the best ride/handling setting when in the boat by myself.
Keep the floor air pressure right up and it feels as hard as a solid floor!

I trail the boat to and from slipway, so not actually suffering from the only complaint I hear about the Honwave 3.8 which is that because of the floor extension/trim tabs there is nowhere to attach dolly wheels etc to the transom. There was a post on here not so long ago about purpose designed
trolly wheels for the Honwave 3.8 but couldn't for the life of me see how the design would work effectively....if anyone has them fitted to their 3.8m let me know please?
For this summer I will take the 3.8 down to Cornwall and Devon as its a lot more tolerant of being run up on beaches than the SR4, and I am considering buying a folding launching trolley to get around the transom / dolly wheel thing as unsure where I will be launching/recovering.

I'm definitely a fan of the 3.8 ...you will have loads of fun in it

Andy

[Locozodiac]

Hola Andyboy

You have made a nice size air deck/sib purchase choice, the only difference is that the air matt is a removable flat floor with a inflatable keel under and the Aerotec is a deep V keel integrated /glued floor to the boat's bottom. Was wondering if untied things tend to slip to the center of boat ?

General boaters poorly rates air floor models, the big complaint is that the floor is usually too soft compared to wood/alum traditional floors and will perform badly.

This is not quite true, it's virtually impossible to inflate an air floor to it's recommended working pressure 10 to 12 PSI depending on the sib’s manufacturer. With a foot pump you can hardly do about 3/4 PSI and that is with a heavy foot. A better inflation device is a hand/foot double action pump, will inflate slightly higher 5/6 PSI only if you have strong arms to push/pull the huge inflator’s piston.

An air matt floor/deep V floor are not tubes, are thick 10 cm high fabric with thousands of polyester threads criss-crossing one another in a reduced space that holds a tremendous amount of high pressure and must be inflated extremely well to achieve correct expected sib performance. If you like to plane/cruise but cannot fulfill this technical request, stay away from buying a inflatable floor sib would be my modest recommendation.

The best and more expensive option would be an electric 12 volts high pressure inflator to do the job well, a nice cheap option ( will need to make some conversions) is to modify a 12 V car tire inflator, put a longer air hose with a valve adapter to match the floor valve and a manometer, to control max inflation pressure. In minutes will have the floor inflated at the recommended manufacturer pressure. Don't forget to re inflate all tube chambers evenly, keel included to their working pressure once on water, 3 to 3.5 PSI and for God's sake, use a manometer !!

Used to inflate my Sea Rider 320 sib with inflatable matt floor up to 6 PSI with great exhausting effort using a double action pump, performed well, not excellent. Now that the tirepump is being used and the floor inflated to 11/12 PSI the performance as from before is outstanding. Now can plane with 2 adults evenly distributed using a Tohatsu 05 HP 2 stroke engine at 3/4 WOT.

Inflation Procedure for removable air floor decks: accommodate well the floor inside the sib, inflate floor to 1/3, spray a generous amount of soapy water all around the air floor border and sib’s bottom’s & contour side borders, proceed to inflate to correct working pressure (10-12 PSI) . The soapy water will help to expand and accommodate better the air floor at the boat’s bottom sides. In my particular case, my boat and floor remains inflated at all times, only re inflate chambers and floor to their working pressure minutes before launching to water every time it’s used.

Ask the dealer which is the working pressure of your deep V floor and inflate to the recommended pressure, the lighter weight sib preformance will be outstanding, and don't worry, won't blow the floor off...

Happy Boating

[MustRib]

just to avoid confusion... the Honwave 3.8 has an integrated floor and keel, part of the boats structure and not a removable item!

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Locozodiac

it's virtually impossible to inflate an air floor to it's recommended working pressure 10 to 12 PSI depending on the sib’s manufacturer.

The pump that comes with the QS Airdeck makes easy enough work of getting the floor to the required 11 PSI. It's still a bit too floppy to be really good in anything but calm conditions - it's fine on a river, but anything else is hard work.

I still like the air floor concept, but the V floor as used on the Bombard and Honda SIBs looks like a better way to go.

John

[Nick Hearne]

Sounds like a great set up, you will have lots of fun!
Mine will plain with 4 up but it dose dent its performance, we are normally me & the wife + 3 kids 10, 7 & 5 years old + beach kit & picnic & we can get on the plain OK!
I do not use the 24lt tank it came with but a 12lt that straps nicely to the transom!
I use a pressure gauge & a 3 stage foot pump (it has stages of pressure!) No way could I get the floor up to pressure with a normal foot pump the tubes are 3.4psi but the floor is 11.3psi which is rock hard & this forms the V not some blow up tube like you get with a hard floor!
Also because you have a floor making the v hull you get more depth in side the boat so you can sit inside at the bow with better protection & sitting on the tubes or the seat which has 4 bolts holding it in, your feet are deeper in the boat & your knees are not around you ears!

[Andy JC]

Superb post Locozodiac!!

Many thanks for taking the time to go in to so much detail and post pictures and everything
I've had 3 airdeck sibs in the past but still learnt a few things from reading your post.
The idea to use a car tyre inflator is great
I already use a 12v powerpack with a cheapo airbed inflator for the bulk of the inflation and it conveniently has a 12v high pressure pump built in to it - can't believe I've not thought of using that myself!

How did you connect the high pressure tube to the airfloor adaptor, it looks like you might have used duct tape or something similar to make the join, is that the case or have you used something else? That’s the only obstacle I might have problems overcoming.

I agree that the proper high pressure pump would be better but considering they're £100 this method seems like a reasonable compromise

Glad to hear the positive reports from other T38 owners, thanks for the comments guys - I’m looking forward to her first outing now

Mustrib, here's a link to the transom wheels for the Honda's: http://www.seamarknunn.com/catalog/items/item18616.htm

£145 delivered is the cheapest I've found. Not sure they would be much use on a steep pebble beach though

[Locozodiac]

How did you connect the high pressure tube to the airfloor adaptor, it looks like you might have used duct tape or something similar to make the join, is that the case or have you used something else? That’s the only obstacle I might have problems overcoming.

I agree that the proper high pressure pump would be better but considering they're £100 this method seems like a reasonable compromise
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hola Andyboy

If my sib experience is helpful to others, then welcome to the same club. Answering your question, have made in a revolver machine a hard plastic adapter to match my Halkey Roberts Air Valves, has a plastic screw in the middle with a 2 mm hole, when inserted to the air valve, the screw pushes the valve central pin to stay open 1 mm and help the air pump to run smoother and perform better. It's a very precise adapter. Have imported spare HR valves so it's very simple to machine shop them exactly with the valve at hand, final touch is made with fine metal sanding paper to go for the exact circumference state of art air tightnes. See attached pics.

If using the cheapo car tire inflator system do not read with the internal high pressure manometer some infaltors have, the reading is way to high and in very low psi readings will not be exact, better use a max 1.0 Bar/14 PSI hand manometer for the final reading. When infalting the lecture will be kind of erratic, because of air pulses and the reading needle can vary left/right up to 1/2 psi, once reaching correct presure disconnect the 12V power, will have a correct stable reading. Connect again until you obtain the high pressure you are looking for and so on...

It's nice to hear that you & Nick uses pressure gauges to inflate your sibs to their correct working pressures, seems that most Ribnet users don't care about manufacturer's standard inflation procedures and will ever use a manometer; anyway...

Happy Boating

[ian parkes]

Yes leave the seat thwart at home , unless you are going rowing .
After pumping mine up with the footpump once i spent £100 on the bravo hp pump , best thing i ever did ,just set the dial and wait for it to stop at the right pressure .

My futura mk 3 had the high pressure floor seperate , it would pop up in the middle if you hit a wave wrong and i think the honda was a better ride even though it was shorter .

[J S]

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Yes leave the seat thwart at home , unless you are going rowing .
After pumping mine up with the footpump once i spent £100 on the bravo hp pump , best thing i ever did ,just set the dial and wait for it to stop at the right pressure .

My futura mk 3 had the high pressure floor seperate , it would pop up in the middle if you hit a wave wrong and i think the honda was a better ride even though it was shorter .

I know what you mean about the seat it does get in the way. But i feel in my boat it strengthens the middle of the boat and makes it more rigid.

James

[ian parkes]

Originally Posted by J S

I know what you mean about the seat it does get in the way. But i feel in my boat it strengthens the middle of the boat and makes it more rigid.

James

It certainly did nothing to strengthen the honda , hence the reason they will pop out .
Its not nice to fall on iether , many a time i have been thrown from my perch on the tube into the boat. and was glad the thwart wasn't fitted .

never ever drive a sib without a kill cord on you

[J S]

Originally Posted by ian parkes

It certainly did nothing to strengthen the honda , hence the reason they will pop out .
Its not nice to fall on iether , many a time i have been thrown from my perch on the tube into the boat. and was glad the thwart wasn't fitted .

never ever drive a sib without a kill cord on you

Its probably the way they are fitted on each boat that makes a difference. No never ever drive a sib without a killcord i have been flying along normally and you hit a little wave and it can throw you around the boat and if you are not wearing a kill cord it can be very dangerous.

James

[Andy JC]

Locozodiac,
I assume by a "revolver machine" you're refering to a lathe of some sort, unfortunately I don't have equipment like that at my disposal but I think I should be able to make something that'll work... thanks for the idea

Ian,
I'm surprised to hear the the thwart pops out sometimes, would there be any way of securing it in?
I assume with the 'v' floor it's not very practical to sit on the floor like other airdecks with flat floors, or am I wrong? - presume most of the time you'd sit on the tubes?

Agree with you chaps about the killcord btw, after hitting the occasional freak wave I've also been caught out, launched a couple of feet in the air and come so close to being flung out

[ian parkes]

Originally Posted by Andyboy

Locozodiac,
I assume by a "revolver machine" you're refering to a lathe of some sort, unfortunately I don't have equipment like that at my disposal but I think I should be able to make something that'll work... thanks for the idea

Ian,
I'm surprised to hear the the thwart pops out sometimes, would there be any way of securing it in?
I assume with the 'v' floor it's not very practical to sit on the floor like other airdecks with flat floors, or am I wrong? - presume most of the time you'd sit on the tubes?

Agree with you chaps about the killcord btw, after hitting the occasional freak wave I've also been caught out, launched a couple of feet in the air and come so close to being flung out

The thwart only hooks into two webbing loops ,it could be secured in but its useless unless you are rowing .

Sitting on the air floor in a sib isn't very comfy "its alive" v or flat . best described as riding a trampoline with a wild bull trapped under it i found the tubes the only easy place to drive from if it was rough . also harder to see over the bow if you sit on the floor . I tied a webbing sling to the safety ropes so i could hold on with my right hand while working the tiller with my left .
The v floor is better in many ways as the angle of the opposite side is better suited to bracing your feet against , i remember being able to take wieght on my legs to damp out the landings which i couldn't do in the flat floor so easily .

[Andy JC]

Guess I won't be using the thwart much then, may come in useful if I'm just taking the kids down the river I suppose.

Cheers Ian

[Locozodiac]

[QUOTE=Andyboy;236993] Locozodiac,
I assume by a "revolver machine" you're refering to a lathe of some sort, unfortunately I don't have equipment like that at my disposal but I think I should be able to make something that'll work... thanks for the idea

Yes Andyboy, lathe is the correct word, thanks google !!!

[Nick Hearne]

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Sitting on the air floor in a sib isn't very comfy "its alive" v or flat . best described as riding a trampoline with a wild bull trapped under it i found the tubes the only easy place to drive from if it was rough .

Well for me if I go out in anything other than flat carm conditions & want to open it up to WOT then theres no way I'm sitting on the tubes! I'm wedged in on the floor one hand on the tiller & one on the thwart (the seat is bolted in!)
it's lots of fun but could not keep it up for long!

[ian parkes]

Originally Posted by Nick Hearne

Well for me if I go out in anything other than flat carm conditions & want to open it up to WOT then theres no way I'm sitting on the tubes! I'm wedged in on the floor one hand on the tiller & one on the thwart (the seat is bolted in!)
it's lots of fun but could not keep it up for long!

i think it depends on the size of the SIB , my futura was better sat on the floor as it was a longer stretch to reach the tiller being so much bigger .
I think the Vfloor of the honda makes sitting on it harder cos your bum slides down the V .

never see a zap cat racer sat up the tubes though so maybe its just me and the honda