Saving Lives at Sea

[pumpkinking]

Series 5, Episode 8, @ 43:00

A good demonstration of a 3m Sib with a 5hp running two up into a strong tide. Found it quite eye opening... performed better than I’d expected, not that you’d want to make a habit of it!

And @ 34:50 - anyone fancy being strapped into a Shannon class, force 11 winds, one engine down and a faulty bilge pump? No Sir.

[Chanchan168]

Originally Posted by pumpkinking

Series 5, Episode 8, @ 43:00

A good demonstration of a 3m Sib with a 5hp running two up into a strong tide. Found it quite eye opening... performed better than I’d expected, not that you’d want to make a habit of it!

And @ 34:50 - anyone fancy being strapped into a Shannon class, force 11 winds, one engine down and a faulty bilge pump? No Sir.

I watched that this morning. Wow what a big sea state. Did the right thing to steam up to Eastbourne but even that must of been a horrible slog. The surfer didn’t seem to bothered by it either.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by pumpkinking

And @ 34:50 - anyone fancy being strapped into a Shannon class, force 11 winds, one engine down and a faulty bilge pump? No Sir.

The surfer didn’t seem to bothered by it either.

I couldn't work out if it was bravado or stupidity. He almost seemed to be looking for sympathy for "the backlash he got on social media about it".

[Chanchan168]

Originally Posted by Poly

I couldn't work out if it was bravado or stupidity. He almost seemed to be looking for sympathy for "the backlash he got on social media about it".

That’s exactly what I thought. If I was on the crew on the Shannon, I think I may have driven up to where he was and had a friendly chat. That lifeboat was so close to being the same as the French one in June last year after storm Miguel where 3 died.

Utter stupidity

[pumpkinking]

Every episode I just think “and they do all of it for free!” What a bunch of legends.

Yes that surfer was a little glib about the whole experience... I thought the clue to his luck in the whole story was “and then I was airlifted to hospital”. Didn’t just swim to the next beach then, did you buddy... anyway, glad they all got home to their kids.

[Steve509926]

Just watched it on Iplayer, I really feel sorry for the surfers partner. Falling for someone with hardly any brains! his only one good quality was that he had thought through a self rescue plan "IF" (or should that be when) something went wrong.

Makes me question if I have the right OB, seeing that 5hp makes me think I should have gone for something lighter

[pumpkinking]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

Just watched it on Iplayer, I really feel sorry for the surfers partner. Falling for someone with hardly any brains! his only one good quality was that he had thought through a self rescue plan "IF" (or should that be when) something went wrong.



Makes me question if I have the right OB, seeing that 5hp makes me think I should have gone for something lighter

Haha agreed on point 1, but I have to say in a tidal flow like that I’d rather be planing with your 15 than displacing with my 6 (which is probably the same as their 5 considering weight and boat)

Still it was reassuring to feel like I’ve got something that will get me and a friend out of moderate trouble.

[paintman]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

Just watched it on Iplayer, I really feel sorry for the surfers partner. Falling for someone with hardly any brains! his only one good quality was that he had thought through a self rescue plan "IF" (or should that be when) something went wrong.

Makes me question if I have the right OB, seeing that 5hp makes me think I should have gone for something lighter

His pregnant partner.
So unfortunately he's managed to pass his clearly defective genes to the next generation - much like the 'stars' of the 'Jeremy Kyle Show'.
'Idiocracy' here we come

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by paintman

His pregnant partner.
So unfortunately he's managed to pass his clearly defective genes to the next generation - much like the 'stars' of the 'Jeremy Kyle Show'.
'Idiocracy' here we come

And what's the matter with the Jeremy Kyle Show, I was gutted when it was taken off air

[Allye]

Must be a long way down from those high horses.

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by Allye

Must be a long way down from those high horses.

No it's not really that high 😊

[PUP]

The armchair warriors above need to realise that the TV programme is typical of its genre in that everything is over-dramatised to capture audience. The vast majority of RNLI/Coastguard callouts are solely the result of human error and you need to consider how, on the evidence of the witterings above, some people might choose to judge you if you're ever the target of their services in the future.

Why the surfer got the benefit of your rather unkind analysis but the other survivors didn't I'm not sure. If it was driven by sympathy for the lifeboat crew then you're a victim in your own way - to the TV production's spin and to some degree the RNLI's tendency to play the same game.

As it happened, his what-if plan worked well and for him to survive seems to indicate that his judgement (after getting in the water) and certainly his mental and physical strength was all there.

So, based on a little knowledge of marine rescue gained in over 30 years of Military, HEMS/Air Ambulance and SAR flying, don't be too quick to judge and be kind - we're all human. Even armchair warriors (or riders of high horses).

PUP

[Allye]

Bravo good sir, with a measly 11years of costal rescue under my belt I cannot compare! It’s says a lot about the attitude of people doing the rescuing and those watching from the side lines.

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by PUP

The armchair warriors above need to realise that the TV programme is typical of its genre in that everything is over-dramatised to capture audience. The vast majority of RNLI/Coastguard callouts are solely the result of human error and you need to consider how, on the evidence of the witterings above, some people might choose to judge you if you're ever the target of their services in the future.

Why the surfer got the benefit of your rather unkind analysis but the other survivors didn't I'm not sure. If it was driven by sympathy for the lifeboat crew then you're a victim in your own way - to the TV production's spin and to some degree the RNLI's tendency to play the same game.

As it happened, his what-if plan worked well and for him to survive seems to indicate that his judgement (after getting in the water) and certainly his mental and physical strength was all there.

So, based on a little knowledge of marine rescue gained in over 30 years of Military, HEMS/Air Ambulance and SAR flying, don't be too quick to judge and be kind - we're all human. Even armchair warriors (or riders of high horses).

PUP

Very presumptuous of you to think of people as being "armchair warriors" because they hold different views than yourself, or maybe not have had the illustrious career that you have so modestly informed us about.

I would agree that most call outs are due to human error, however our "wittering" as you are so kindly "quick to judge" are based upon fact.

Most human error is caused by inexperience and/or lack of knowledge, something which this surfer clearly did not suffer from.

He had stated that he had surfed in many parts of the world and was an experienced surfer.

The forecast for that day was for a storm force 10 - 11.

He said that he didn't think the RNLI would launch a rescue in those conditions. He thought it was to bad for the RNLI but not for a lone surfer?

Non of the above would suggest human error. It suggests negligence.

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion. My opinion was and still is, that this surfer was negligent and put not only his but othe people's lives at risk unnecessarily.

So I wasn't being "too quick to judge and be kind - we're all human. Even armchair warriors (or riders of high horses)." - now is someone being a little to quick to judge who and who isn't an "armchair" warrior without having any facts.

[Chanchan168]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

Very presumptuous of you to think of people as being "armchair warriors" because they hold different views than yourself, or maybe not have had the illustrious career that you have so modestly informed us about.

I would agree that most call outs are due to human error, however our "wittering" as you are so kindly "quick to judge" are based upon fact.

Most human error is caused by inexperience and/or lack of knowledge, something which this surfer clearly did not suffer from.

He had stated that he had surfed in many parts of the world and was an experienced surfer.


The forecast for that day was for a storm force 10 - 11.

He said that he didn't think the RNLI would launch a rescue in those conditions. He thought it was to bad for the RNLI but not for a lone surfer?

Non of the above would suggest human error. It suggests negligence.

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion. My opinion was and still is, that this surfer was negligent and put not only his but othe people's lives at risk unnecessarily.

So I wasn't being "too quick to judge and be kind - we're all human. Even armchair warriors (or riders of high horses)." - now is someone being a little to quick to judge who and who isn't an "armchair" warrior without having any facts.

Totally agree Steve. We’re not all armchair warriors, some of us also have experience of emergency services. I’m a 20 year firefighter who also helms inshore rescue boats in the Island and have been on numerous call outs, with too many, unfortunately ending with fatalities.

I have never openly critiqued those who through lack of experience have found themselves in danger, and needed rescuing, but for this gentlemen, who you quite rightly state was fair warned of the conditions and fair armed as he knew how to presumably get out of trouble, he knowingly put himself in danger by jumping in to try and catch this last wave.

He also put the responding crew in danger and he himself admitted he thought they wouldn’t launch, again, knowing how bad the conditions were.

I also wouldn’t have critiqued him if he acted compassionately and with empathy for the poor crew, who whilst knowing the atrocious conditions, still launched. His expressions and interview did not convey this and that is why I agree with the above.

[willk]

Originally Posted by PUP

The armchair warriors above need to realise that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
knowledge of marine rescue gained in over 30 years of Military, HEMS/Air Ambulance and SAR flying,

That reminds me -

Q: How do you know if you're sitting next to a Pilot at a dinner party?

A: Don't worry - he'll tell you.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by PUP

The armchair warriors above need to realise that the TV programme is typical of its genre in that everything is over-dramatised to capture audience.

I doubt anyone who's watched more than a few episodes of Saving Lives at Sea has any doubt that most of what is presented is rather over-dramatic. The irony is that this is one of the few situations where they didn't claim "this was definitely a life saved by the RNLI".

However, did you actually watch the episode in question?

The vast majority of RNLI/Coastguard callouts are solely the result of human error and you need to consider how, on the evidence of the witterings above, some people might choose to judge you if you're ever the target of their services in the future. Why the surfer got the benefit of your rather unkind analysis but the other survivors didn't I'm not sure.

I don't think most of the criticism is for the stupid choice to go surfing in a F11 (I'm no surfer but they didn't even look like good waves) ... but rather for having seemingly no contrition for the situation he put himself and therefore others in.

If it was driven by sympathy for the lifeboat crew then you're a victim in your own way - to the TV production's spin and to some degree the RNLI's tendency to play the same game.

do you think the lifeboat didn't invert? do you think the crew didn't spend an extra 2+ hrs at sea to get to their neighbouring harbour when they couldn't get ashore?

As it happened, his what-if plan worked well and for him to survive seems to indicate that his judgement (after getting in the water) and certainly his mental and physical strength was all there.

if he really had a pre-planned what if, then it might have been vaguely sensible to tell whoever was on the shore filming (and presumably the person who called 999 and later his partner?) that (1) he didn't expect a lifeboat to be called (2) he intended to go out to sea and swim a long way to the next beach - because then the CG would have been better placed to determine where to deploy resources.

He did well swimming 6 mile in a F11 but it's not like everything went to plan - he still got flown to hospital - obviously, it might be that wasn't really needed and he could just have hitched a lift home or found a phone box and called his missus to pick him up. But I think if you've done something silly that results in a lifeboat, a helicopter and a bunch of coastguards getting deployed to help you out - either simply refuse to be on the TV show or play along with the drama and seem grateful or accept that the viewers are going to judge you.

And if people "in the industry" don't want the public to play along and judge or be sucked into the dramatisation - then they probably want to take a moment of inward reflection and ask if they or their organisations should cooperate in making these documentaries. Although perhaps the upsides in terms of PR, fundraising (and presumably cash from the production company), and even just public awareness for the sort of things that can go wrong outweigh the downsides of some of your casualties coming across as feckless.

[beerbelly]

Originally Posted by Poly

I doubt anyone who's watched more than a few episodes of Saving Lives at Sea has any doubt that most of what is presented is rather over-dramatic. The irony is that this is one of the few situations where they didn't claim "this was definitely a life saved by the RNLI".

However, did you actually watch the episode in question?

I don't think most of the criticism is for the stupid choice to go surfing in a F11 (I'm no surfer but they didn't even look like good waves) ... but rather for having seemingly no contrition for the situation he put himself and therefore others in.

do you think the lifeboat didn't invert? do you think the crew didn't spend an extra 2+ hrs at sea to get to their neighbouring harbour when they couldn't get ashore?

if he really had a pre-planned what if, then it might have been vaguely sensible to tell whoever was on the shore filming (and presumably the person who called 999 and later his partner?) that (1) he didn't expect a lifeboat to be called (2) he intended to go out to sea and swim a long way to the next beach - because then the CG would have been better placed to determine where to deploy resources.

He did well swimming 6 mile in a F11 but it's not like everything went to plan - he still got flown to hospital - obviously, it might be that wasn't really needed and he could just have hitched a lift home or found a phone box and called his missus to pick him up. But I think if you've done something silly that results in a lifeboat, a helicopter and a bunch of coastguards getting deployed to help you out - either simply refuse to be on the TV show or play along with the drama and seem grateful or accept that the viewers are going to judge you.

And if people "in the industry" don't want the public to play along and judge or be sucked into the dramatisation - then they probably want to take a moment of inward reflection and ask if they or their organisations should cooperate in making these documentaries. Although perhaps the upsides in terms of PR, fundraising (and presumably cash from the production company), and even just public awareness for the sort of things that can go wrong outweigh the downsides of some of your casualties coming across as feckless.

the last part of this quote is the most pertinent . the program is without doubt over dramatized but if it makes just one or two people think twice about putting themselves and others at risk in the sea then its done its purpose . and dont begrudge the rnli getting a few quid from it if it helps them come and get me if god forbid i drop a bollock and end up needing assistance . plus the actual program is one of the few boating fixes i get during these dodgy times

[Fender]

Originally Posted by beerbelly

the last part of this quote is the most pertinent . the program is without doubt over dramatized but if it makes just one or two people think twice about putting themselves and others at risk in the sea then its done its purpose . and dont begrudge the rnli getting a few quid from it if it helps them come and get me if god forbid i drop a bollock and end up needing assistance . plus the actual program is one of the few boating fixes i get during these dodgy times

+1

I've turned over channels on a couple of occasion's because of the 'drama' the production has added to the episodes, a crew member looking uncomfortable while being interviewed, 'we will either find the casualty......(very long pause).....or we won't', no sh#t Sherlock

The episode where the lady hurt herself falling off a low sea wall and ended up on the beach ( meters from the road and waiting ambulance ), every emergency service known to man was in attendance, however a small flight of stone steps a very short distance away was the route off the beach - deemed for whatever H&S ( TV... ) reason too dangerous to use
So, casualty manhandled down the beach to the waters edge, lifted onto the waiting life boat, trip across the harbour, to a pontoon, lifted out of the boat, and carried to the quay and then the ambulance........ I guess a little more exciting for viewers

The RNLI get my upmost respect, but I feel the show has on occasion done them no favours

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Fender

The episode where the lady hurt herself falling off a low sea wall and ended up on the beach ( meters from the road and waiting ambulance ), every emergency service known to man was in attendance, however a small flight of stone steps a very short distance away was the route off the beach - deemed for whatever H&S ( TV... ) reason too dangerous to use
So, casualty manhandled down the beach to the waters edge, lifted onto the waiting life boat, trip across the harbour, to a pontoon, lifted out of the boat, and carried to the quay and then the ambulance........ I guess a little more exciting for viewers

Now I thoroughly believe that in the editing suite / production room things get cut to add drama, or the narrator gets made to beef it up, etc - but now you are suggesting they've changed how they respond to an incident to make better TV. That's a little far fetched for me - as I understand it the are just wearing go pro's it's not like there is a producer and film crew with them. I can't remember how narrow/steep/large/slippy the steps were - but lifting a casualty up a very steep slope/wall/cliff is the work of the CG Cliff Rescue team not lifeboat crew.