SIB and Outboard Advice for a Newby

[JBL97]

Hi Folks, been browsing this forum for a while, some great info which is hugely helpful!

I am based in Ireland and looking to get a SIB for use on coastal sea areas and also lakes and calm rivers.

The plan is to use the SIB by myself and also with the family (3 of us soon to be 4) cruising around and also fishing with 1 or 2 mates. Would also like to have the possibility to have a bit of fun at speed also but not an immediate requirement.

I will be planning to inflate and deflate the boat each time and transport it in my mid sized car which has a relatively small booth (not ideal but have to make do for now) so time required and hassle to set up and take back down after each use is important.

I would like to keep the initial spend for the SIB and outboard close to 3500 Euro if possible so trying to find a SIB for around 1000 Euro that suits my needs.

Most of the dealers in Ireland seem to be out of stock at the moment and I cannot seem to get Honwave, Excel or Elling over here which seem to be the recommended brands I read on here.

So I am looking at some alternatives and found a seller who can supply me with a BARK BT-360SD for 900 Euro delivered in about 2 weeks time. He sources these from the Ukraine and seems to be selling loads of them here.

This is the boat - https://bark.ua/en/barks/motor_boats.../bt-360sd.html

The boat has a solid floor that comes in 4 pieces so setting up wouldnt be as straight forward as an airfloor boat but the solid floor will give me that extra support for fishing gear and standing up stability when fishing.

Is the airfloor the way to go if setup and wrap up time is important?

Looking to some help and guidance on this please. Should I go for the above boat or should I pay the extra for a similar sized Honwave or Excel and have it imported from the UK? It will probably cost about 600-700 euro more for a Honwave or Excel which will push me further over my initial 3500 budget as I was considering a 8HP outboard which are about 2500 euro here.

Appreciate any advice please

[TmMorris]

Hello. My experience is that I have an old Avon Redcrest with wooden boards and a 4hp 2 stroke. It is an absolute doddle to pack, unpack, carry and store etc. It'll take 4 people but not exactly much space for kit and in my mind it's very much a freshwater boat or yacht tender.

I also have an Excel 390 with an air floor and a 15hp 2 stroke. I chose the 4m sib for its size so that three of us could be very comfortable with all the kit needed to a long day mucking about on the Solent. I opted for an old 15 rather than a new 20 so that I didn't dread lugging the engine about.

I would say that the best compromise for leisure use where the kit fits in a largish car boot and a few of you can spend the day out and about in a range of environments would be something in the 3.2-3.6m range and the air floor does seem to be the simplest of the two styles of floor.

The engine aspect is a bit more complex as to get on the plane with a few of you I suspect you ideally want a 15 but if buying new as the 15 is the same weight as the 20 these days, then I'd remove a 15 from the equation and just have a 20 as a possible option with a 9.9 being the other. With the 9.9 you should get on the plane on most occasions but maybe not with three adults? but the engine will be smaller and lighter for lugging about.

[Fenlander]

I know the Bark name but there is no real user feedback on this forum to know what they are like.

There is no doubt an air floor is so much easier to set up but if I had to have a hard floor I'd actually prefer wood like the Bark. It is more forgiving on the fingers when setting up and easier to make a DIY replacement panel if ever needed.

Weight is a big consideration when moving about before launch. The Bark is 70kg which is heavy... albeit split between two bags... 40kg for the boat and 30kg for the floor. A similar size air floor would be 20-25kg lighter.

The extra cost of Honwave and Excel is significant factor. If I could trust the Bark would be at least as good as the Elling (also Ukraine built) I owned a couple of months back then I would be tempted at that cost saving.

I see there are lot of Bark inflatable videos on Youtube.

[JBL97]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Yeah the weight is a big factor as I will be using this solo also so getting it to the water from the car could be difficult alone although I may be able to get launch wheels to help with that.

Would the extra weight be a problem for the 8HP motor or would a larger motor be a safer long term investment? Be probably an extra 1000 to 1300 for a 15 or 20HP motor so again this needs to be factored in.

I've looked at some of the YouTube videos and looks OK to set up with the solid floor however, the airfloor does look a lot easier, both have their pros and cons.

Very hard decision without ever being in a SIB or tried out setting one up and taking it back down and also the handling on the water with solid floor vs airfloor.

[Fenlander]

Yes and very hard to advise knowing your SIB experience is minimal. Before the pandemic caused a surge in used sales and rising prices we generally advised new folks bought a used outfit for around £1500-£1800 because you could see how you get on and loose little or nothing changing engine, SIB or the whole lot. Not so easy to do now.

[JBL97]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Yes and very hard to advise knowing your SIB experience is minimal. Before the pandemic caused a surge in used sales and rising prices we generally advised new folks bought a used outfit for around £1500-£1800 because you could see how you get on and loose little or nothing changing engine, SIB or the whole lot. Not so easy to do now.

Has the cost of new SIBs and outboards also gone up the last year with the Covid situation or are they similarly priced to how they were before the pandemic?

I'd be looking at near 4k for a SIB and decent sized outboard without getting launch weeks, petrol tanks and everything else I'll need so wondering was this always the case or bad timing on my behalf?

[Mattster]

Originally Posted by JBL97

Yeah the weight is a big factor as I will be using this solo also so getting it to the water from the car could be difficult alone although I may be able to get launch wheels to help with that.

I recently purchased my first SIB, after having been out with a friend on his for some years. My overhwhelming concern was being able to launch solo, or with minimal assistance (young family), which ended up driving me towards an air floor and a small (6hp) outboard. I'm glad I went that way, because the rig is manageable for me, but even then only just when solo at one of the locations I fish. The advice I would give you is to make sure you are going to be able to launch and retrieve whatever you end up buying, because if you can't, or it is a huge hassle, it will seriously dent your desire to use it. Also, gear your decision towards your main use case, if that is what you are going to be doing for the majority of the time. If that use case is near shore solo fishing, then the ideal boat might be quite different to "fun at speed" with 4 people aboard.

If you haven't tried launching and retrieving a SIB then perhaps you should, or at least check out the places that you plan to launch. To give some context, I am middle aged, 6ft+ with a bad back and I can't launch my mate's rig on my own - a 55kg hardfloor 3.1m + 8hp 42kg 4 stroke. My own setup is 48kg of boat + 26kg of engine, and although that may not sound like a huge difference, I can more or less run up the ramp with the engine, whereas I struggle to lift the heavier 42kg model at all (these are awkward lifts). The rig you are thinking of with, say, a 20hp 4 stroke on the back comes in at 120-130kg, more with gear on board. You (almost certainly) won't be able to carry the motor separately, at 50+kg, so for me it is way beyond the limits of what I could launch at my local ramp (steep, slatted wood). If your ramps are shallow and you can park very near, then things might be different.

As for getting hold of a boat, I almost ordered an Elling for myself from a European outlet, but waited for local in the end. Not ideal, of course, buying remotely, but it might be something I considered in your situation? Are there really no Honwave dealers in Ireland, or is it just a stock issue?

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by JBL97

The plan is to use the SIB by myself and also with the family (3 of us soon to be 4) cruising around and also fishing with 1 or 2 mates. Would also like to have the possibility to have a bit of fun at speed also but not an immediate requirement.

3 - 4 people with all the kit you will find you will want/need to take with you, will be a tight squeeze in anything less than a 3.8.
I have an Excel SD360, two adults and a dog is comfortable, one more person and it's not!

2 people fishing in an SD360 is easily do able, 3 people fishing and you will struggle.

"A bit of fun at speed" - not 2 or 3 people in a SIB with an 8hp. Minimum IMO is 15hp, preferably 20hp (discounting the Elling KB350 which appears to perform well with less hp)

Originally Posted by JBL97

I will be planning to inflate and deflate the boat each time and transport it in my mid sized car which has a relatively small booth (not ideal but have to make do for now) so time required and hassle to set up and take back down after each use is important.

Small boot! Question is - what car do you have? A SIB with an outboard is a big package! Considering its you + 2 soon to be 3 (so a baby seat! ) you won't be able to use any car space. Have you considered you may need a bigger car from the onset or a trailer.

Sorry to be negative, but I think these things need to be pointed out

I think as Mattster has eluded to, you should prioritise what you want to use your SIB primarily for and work around that. So if it's solo fishing - smaller SIB and OB will suit you fine and you can probably fit it in your small boot.
If it's primary use will be cruising with the family and kids, then you will need something bigger with a bigger OB and probably a bigger car or trailer.

[JBL97]

Originally Posted by Mattster

I recently purchased my first SIB, after having been out with a friend on his for some years. My overhwhelming concern was being able to launch solo, or with minimal assistance (young family), which ended up driving me towards an air floor and a small (6hp) outboard. I'm glad I went that way, because the rig is manageable for me, but even then only just when solo at one of the locations I fish. The advice I would give you is to make sure you are going to be able to launch and retrieve whatever you end up buying, because if you can't, or it is a huge hassle, it will seriously dent your desire to use it. Also, gear your decision towards your main use case, if that is what you are going to be doing for the majority of the time. If that use case is near shore solo fishing, then the ideal boat might be quite different to "fun at speed" with 4 people aboard.

If you haven't tried launching and retrieving a SIB then perhaps you should, or at least check out the places that you plan to launch. To give some context, I am middle aged, 6ft+ with a bad back and I can't launch my mate's rig on my own - a 55kg hardfloor 3.1m + 8hp 42kg 4 stroke. My own setup is 48kg of boat + 26kg of engine, and although that may not sound like a huge difference, I can more or less run up the ramp with the engine, whereas I struggle to lift the heavier 42kg model at all (these are awkward lifts). The rig you are thinking of with, say, a 20hp 4 stroke on the back comes in at 120-130kg, more with gear on board. You (almost certainly) won't be able to carry the motor separately, at 50+kg, so for me it is way beyond the limits of what I could launch at my local ramp (steep, slatted wood). If your ramps are shallow and you can park very near, then things might be different.

As for getting hold of a boat, I almost ordered an Elling for myself from a European outlet, but waited for local in the end. Not ideal, of course, buying remotely, but it might be something I considered in your situation? Are there really no Honwave dealers in Ireland, or is it just a stock issue?

Thanks that is good advice with the weight and something I was thinking about for solo runs and how to get the boat and motor to the water so will keep that in mind.

I can't seem to find any sellers in Ireland apart from Honda themselves but they have no stock available. UK wasn't a problem but a bit more awkward now with Brexit that's why I was hoping the Bark would work out.

I've done some more research and the Bark seems a solid boat with great reviews but the solid floor is holding me back however I believe this will be an advantage when it's on the water just the issie with setting up and packing away which could turn me off if its a lot of hassle over an air deck floor

[JBL97]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

3 - 4 people with all the kit you will find you will want/need to take with you, will be a tight squeeze in anything less than a 3.8.
I have an Excel SD360, two adults and a dog is comfortable, one more person and it's not!

2 people fishing in an SD360 is easily do able, 3 people fishing and you will struggle.

"A bit of fun at speed" - not 2 or 3 people in a SIB with an 8hp. Minimum IMO is 15hp, preferably 20hp (discounting the Elling KB350 which appears to perform well with less hp)



Small boot! Question is - what car do you have? A SIB with an outboard is a big package! Considering its you + 2 soon to be 3 (so a baby seat! ) you won't be able to use any car space. Have you considered you may need a bigger car from the onset or a trailer.

Sorry to be negative, but I think these things need to be pointed out

I think as Mattster has eluded to, you should prioritise what you want to use your SIB primarily for and work around that. So if it's solo fishing - smaller SIB and OB will suit you fine and you can probably fit it in your small boot.
If it's primary use will be cruising with the family and kids, then you will need something bigger with a bigger OB and probably a bigger car or trailer.

Appreciate those points and these are the things I need to hear. I've a Lexus IS300H, seats don't fold down and boot is small so I am looking to get something bigger but that could be a few months away yet.

I get your point about no space in the car if going out with a few people but my thoughts there was the other half could also drive or friends could go in their car but ideally a large car would be better option or a trailer but no experience with those either unfortunately.

One step forward, two steps back it feels like

Primary use would be few spins with me and the daughter on the weekends when the other half is on work so I was actually considering the Bark 320 or Honwave T32 but they are same price as their bigger sister the 360 and T38 so I was thinking go bigger and have the option of fishing with a few mates and being able to bring out 2 adults and 2 kids for a cruise about in a year or two

[Mattster]

Originally Posted by JBL97

Appreciate those points and these are the things I need to hear. I've a Lexus IS300H, seats don't fold down and boot is small so I am looking to get something bigger but that could be a few months away yet.

To give you some idea, I can fit my Honwave t38 across the back seats of my Ford cmax, and fill the boot with engine, fuel, fishing tackle etc. I can only take one passenger in the front. I'm guessing you could probably just about do the same in your car.

[Steve509926]

Your thinking of going bigger with a 360 or a 380 is probably the correct way to go long term. IMO a 320 is a little small for a family.
Why the rush now that summer is drawing to an end, and as you've said you are looking for a bigger vehicle in a few months time. Why not plan around your future, bigger vehicle? Pre order the SIB and OB for next spring, or look for a used setup, that fits your needs rather than a SIB that fits your current car. Then you can have a bigger, lighter air deck be it Exel, Honwave or Elling.
An airdeck is the way that I would go, a young family waiting 45 mins for you to set up will soon be bored.

[JBL97]

Originally Posted by Steve509926

Your thinking of going bigger with a 360 or a 380 is probably the correct way to go long term. IMO a 320 is a little small for a family.
Why the rush now that summer is drawing to an end, and as you've said you are looking for a bigger vehicle in a few months time. Why not plan around your future, bigger vehicle? Pre order the SIB and OB for next spring, or look for a used setup, that fits your needs rather than a SIB that fits your current car. Then you can have a bigger, lighter air deck be it Exel, Honwave or Elling.
An airdeck is the way that I would go, a young family waiting 45 mins for you to set up will soon be bored.

I was hoping we have a mild enough winter again this year and I could get a few months out of it before the cold weather kicks in and I could make do with the car I have in the meantime.

Regarding setup time of around 45 mins, does it really take that much longer to add in the solid floor plates over the air floor? I get the weight part but how much longer are we taking for the solid floor over an airfloor start to finish?

I've never done it so I have no idea but lookinh on this site some say it's not a problem but others say it's a nightmare

[Steve509926]

To be honest I've not watched an ali floor sib being set up from start to finish as I'm never there long enough to see it, I'm long gone and on the water
Seriously though, it takes me 30 - 35 mins to set up my SD360 if I'm traveling light, so it will be at least another 10 /15 mins for an ali floor.
Most of the solid floor SIBs I've seen have been trailer transported and launched. I think not only because of the extended set-up /strip down times, but also the extra weight.
All SIBs and OB are heavy cumbersome bits of kit, so anything you can do to lighten or ease the load is of benefit.
My SIB is 58kg and the OB is 47kg, I'm pretty fit (old, but fit) It's the max that I can handle and after 12 months of sibbing I'm looking at ways to ease the load.
I think if you read "newbie advice" threads on the forum, one resounding theme is always there - weight! Everyone thinks 60,70,80kg isn't a problem - it's not when your bench pressing, but a packed SIB is a totally different matter.

[Wazzajnr]

This is a video of me setting up my 3.2 ally floor sib.
2.31 until 7.30 is fitting the floor so 5 minutes and it's done. Possibly slightly more physical than inflating an air floor but quicker probably.

https://youtu.be/Mzr8MWKrQHs

[JBL97]

Originally Posted by Wazzajnr

This is a video of me setting up my 3.2 ally floor sib.
2.31 until 7.30 is fitting the floor so 5 minutes and it's done. Possibly slightly more physical than inflating an air floor but quicker probably.

https://youtu.be/Mzr8MWKrQHs

Great video doesn't look to be that painful if only takes 5 mins.

I've done a LOT of reading the last few days and it's very much a mixed bag when it comes to Aluminium floors. Some say its a nightmare and wouldn't go near them while others say its not bad at all. It all comes down to the person I suppose.

[Wazzajnr]

Well mines easy.
What can't speak can't lie.

Video is 13 minutes start to finish.

Add on 10 minutes loading up and fitting transom wheels and seats etc. And I'm normally in the water within 30 minutes.

[JBL97]

Originally Posted by Wazzajnr

Well mines easy.
What can't speak can't lie.

Video is 13 minutes start to finish.

Add on 10 minutes loading up and fitting transom wheels and seats etc. And I'm normally in the water within 30 minutes.

What were the main reasons you chose an aluminium floor over air floor if you don't mind me asking?

[Fenlander]

The difficulty of fitting an alloy floor varies between different makes/models and different example of a model... and then it can be different depending on if the SIB is on even ground or not and the temperature. Also being solo can make it loads harder.

So even with the same SIB it can be a doddle one day and a pig the next. And when they are a pig you can despair if the side stringers will ever go in place.

I'm not anti alloy floor because they do provide a great solid stable floor but there are forum folks over the years who have moved to trailers after setting up their alloy floors a few times.

Our personal experience was with a 3.5m alloy floor Honwave which as just mentioned provided a lovely flat floor and great stable feeling due to its low down weight. It was fine to assemble with practice, on level ground and with two folks doing the set up.

But when I had to do a couple of set ups on my own on uneven grass where the floor seemed to defy every trick to install I sold it.

My wood floor Zodiac and Avon models were a lot easier.

[Wazzajnr]

Originally Posted by JBL97

What were the main reasons you chose an aluminium floor over air floor if you don't mind me asking?

Mainly rigidity and no risk of puncturing it. Lots of kids climbing in and out with stones stuck to their feet.
I'd also read that the air floors can bulge up sometimes causing an air bubble and prop venting.

I've never used an air floor so have nothing to compare with but I'm very happy with my ally floor one and would buy another tomorrow if the need arose.