SIB Pump

[Wazzajnr]

Maybe just got something sucked into the inlet and it blocked the pressure sensor?
I do think it should come with a screw on filter for the inlet when you're inflating.
I might have a go at 3d printing something.
I agree, it's probably worth getting it swapped if they will do. On mine when it hung it was reading pressure so sounds like a different issue.

[Mattster]

Originally Posted by Wazzajnr

Maybe just got something sucked into the inlet and it blocked the pressure sensor?
I do think it should come with a screw on filter for the inlet when you're inflating.
I might have a go at 3d printing something.
I agree, it's probably worth getting it swapped if they will do. On mine when it hung it was reading pressure so sounds like a different issue.

Unlikely I think since I always have the pump in the boat, and debris free - although anything is possible. I agree that some sort of screen on the inlet would be a good idea though.

Have started the exchange process - shop agreed to a new one, but I've got the old one until the new one arrives in store. My guess is a dicky connection somewhere, which would explain intermittent failure, but since the unit is less than a month old I am not going to try and fix it myself.

[Mattster]

Okay so I've had the new (swapped) pump for a week or so, and finally opened it today to inflate in the garden and test my new patch. The new pump seems to have exactly the same problem as the old pump, which is not registering any pressure on the display and not switching to stage 2 (high pressure) at ~1psi, so flailing away in low pressure mode until I just switch it off.
Am I just unlucky or am I doing something wrong? Hard to think what, since there is little to do other than set the pressure followed by the power button. Connections seem secure, with no air leaking at either boat or pump ends.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Mattster

Okay so I've had the new (swapped) pump for a week or so, and finally opened it today to inflate in the garden and test my new patch. The new pump seems to have exactly the same problem as the old pump, which is not registering any pressure on the display and not switching to stage 2 (high pressure) at ~1psi, so flailing away in low pressure mode until I just switch it off.
Am I just unlucky or am I doing something wrong? Hard to think what, since there is little to do other than set the pressure followed by the power button. Connections seem secure, with no air leaking at either boat or pump ends.

I had a similar issue with the HIKs, for some reason it won’t inflate the RIB, it just sits there at around 0.88psi & doesn’t go into HP mode. No problem at all with the SIB. I wonder if it’s getting to 0.88 which is enough to open the valve & then it’s inflating the tube. Ergo, the pressure rises rapidly to 0.88-1 psi as it’s only pressurising the hose, then the valve lifts & the work begins. If you put your thumb over the outlet on the pump, does it change over? I’ve also noticed that you’ve to slowly put your thumb over to simulate a tube coming up to pressure.

[Mattster]

A good idea Dave, but the thumb test is a fail - no pressure registered on the display at all even when fully closed with thumb.

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that this pump is just a bit of Chinesium cr@p at a premium price. When searching around for any answers to this issue, you can see the exact same pump with many different brandings, and also for $60 a unit on Alibaba (OK - min order quantity 200). It's a shame, as I really do like the concept of a self contained rechargeable, and at the £150 they charge for it you would expect them to execute that concept to a reasonable level of quality - but they obviously haven't.

Bravo then is it as the reliable option? I am currently pumpless!

[Fenlander]

>>>Bravo then is it as the reliable option?

You've probably seen me say before when our Bravo had its first fault (still useable though) around 8/9yrs old I bought another. Says it all really.

This time I went for the simplicity of the analogue dial model which was cheaper and is better in operation too.... as in it taking a second to twist the dial from tube pressure to HP floor pressure setting... compared with holding buttons to get into the up/down mode then tabbing a button push at a time.

Yep totally happy. Just add a £15-£20 battery of your choice.

https://seamarknunn.com/acatalog/Bra...MT6130038.html

[Mattster]

Thanks Fenlander - looks like a good option, and properly built. Might even use the difference (assuming I get a refund) to get a lithium battery, and share it with my fishfinder somehow..

So after charging and trying again, the pump worked, and indeed passes the "thumb test" which actually shows the pressure rising on the display when I hold my thumb over the outlet (no hose attached). I simply can't see that there can be any other issue/misconfiguration/misuse by me that is causing this, since thumb/no hose before wasn't working, but this intermittent operation is exactly how the previous pump behaved so it does make me wonder if I am doing something wrong. There is nothing in the manual to suggest otherwise, however.. At least I have the boat up to pressure now and I can confirm no bubbles around the new patch! Will leave overnight to see how it gets on.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Mattster

Thanks Fenlander - looks like a good option, and properly built. Might even use the difference (assuming I get a refund) to get a lithium battery, and share it with my fishfinder somehow..

So after charging and trying again, the pump worked, and indeed passes the "thumb test" which actually shows the pressure rising on the display when I hold my thumb over the outlet (no hose attached). I simply can't see that there can be any other issue/misconfiguration/misuse by me that is causing this, since thumb/no hose before wasn't working, but this intermittent operation is exactly how the previous pump behaved so it does make me wonder if I am doing something wrong. There is nothing in the manual to suggest otherwise, however.. At least I have the boat up to pressure now and I can confirm no bubbles around the new patch! Will leave overnight to see how it gets on.

It would be interesting to check the battery voltages at various stages in the cycle. I wonder if by the time the pump has done the low pressure phase, the battery voltage has dropped & either the electronics or HP side hasn’t enough voltage to changeover. Could you use crocodile clips & run it of a vehicle battery with the engine running just to test the theory?

[Mattster]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

It would be interesting to check the battery voltages at various stages in the cycle. I wonder if by the time the pump has done the low pressure phase, the battery voltage has dropped & either the electronics or HP side hasn’t enough voltage to changeover. Could you use crocodile clips & run it of a vehicle battery with the engine running just to test the theory?

Interesting idea, and you might be on to something with battery issues. When my original pump starting playing up, charging it "fixed" the issue, this despite the readout saying 70%+ remaining. Today the battery was supposedly mid 80's% out of the box, but again charging resolved the issue. I did notice with the first pump that the battery % varied wildly - often dropping fast during use, only to show higher again at next use. I don't know an awful lot about batteries, but my loose understanding was that lithiums don't drop in voltage anything like as quickly as lead acid when they lose charge, but I wonder how the battery % thing is sensed by the unit? One thing is for sure; the lithium battery they have in there must be a very cheap one, since this whole unit (with the same branding) sells for US$60 on Alibaba. You could probably make a much more robust version of the same thing by getting the pump Fenlander linked to and a half decent separate lithium to go with it, and for about the same price.

[jeffstevens763@g]

It says on the video that it’s suitable for kayaks and paddle boards I suspect the battery drops off pumping a sib up which has more volume try keeping it charging off the car whilst inflating or buy a cheap air bed inflator from Halfords for initial fill. £149 is a lot of money for that performance IMO

[Mattster]

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

It says on the video that it’s suitable for kayaks and paddle boards I suspect the battery drops off pumping a sib up which has more volume try keeping it charging off the car whilst inflating or buy a cheap air bed inflator from Halfords for initial fill. £149 is a lot of money for that performance IMO

Possibly true, in which case it is not fit for purpose IMO.
The first one I bought worked flawlessly for 5 inflates, 4 of which came off one battery charge - so it has the juice, but maybe it just isn't capable of managing it very well.

Having said all that, the main identifiable problem when it fails is that the pressure reading stays at zero, and the pump doesn't enter phase 2 (high pressure). This suggests that the problem is with the pressure sensor, since when it is working the pressure reading will start showing values from about 0.3 psi, well before the switch into HP at about 1psi - and the low pressure cycle seems to work fine (getting boat to ~1psi) even when in "broken" mode. So, could be the sensor or could still be battery issues because electronics do funny things when they are not getting the voltage they need.

[Wazzajnr]

I think this is a software issue. I wonder if there is any button press combination that restarts it.
Maybe plugging in to charge does some kind of reset?
Would be a shame if a crappy software glitch got an otherwise brilliant pump a bad name.
Tempted to pull mine apart and have a look what's inside and see if it can be improved.
Would be nice to find out who manufactured them and see what their take on it is.

[Fenlander]

>>>It would be interesting to check the battery voltages at various stages in the cycle.

Indeed. See my first post on this thread where an apparently OK battery was dropping to 10v under load and causing both pressure setting and final pressure glitching on my Bravo digital.

https://www.rib.net/forum/f50/bravo-...ues-78536.html

When I replaced it for a later fault the electronic glitching was why I chose the analogue version as a replacement.

[Mattster]

Originally Posted by Wazzajnr

I think this is a software issue. I wonder if there is any button press combination that restarts it.
Maybe plugging in to charge does some kind of reset?
Would be a shame if a crappy software glitch got an otherwise brilliant pump a bad name.
Tempted to pull mine apart and have a look what's inside and see if it can be improved.
Would be nice to find out who manufactured them and see what their take on it is.

Agreed - it's a brilliant bit of kit when it works, which is why I don't want to give up on it, but then again I don't want to lose a day's fishing because I can't blow my boat up - reliability is so important! If I do end up returning it (again) I will ask for a refund and put the money towards a known reliable brand and a decent lithium battery, and perhaps put a bit of effort into making a useful battery box for the boat (sounder, pump, maybe a USB port). Probably work out about the same total cost.

When I was searching for info it just lead back to Alibaba (search for 16psi SUP pump). The replacement pump has "Stermay" branding (same as Alibaba photo), but you can also see the same pump with different branding in other places, which suggests to me that this is not being built by the companies who sell it as theirs.

[Cpt.Pollard]

Hi Mattster, any luck with the pump?



In Canada these pumps are branded under Seamax marine and I've got the SUP20D version. It's a different pump without battery but I'm assuming similar electronics. I've experienced the same problem but usually find success with a work around.


If you find the pump getting stuck in LP mode, turn the pump off and wait for power down beep to end. While powering down you're unable to restart the pump, but the moment the beeping stops power it up again. In my experience the pump will start in LP for a brief instant and switch to HP mode. I hope this works for you also. Good luck.

[Mattster]

Thanks Captain, and I have managed to get it going with the stop/start routine but in the end I decided it was too unreliable for me. Great idea, perhaps let down a bit by poor electronics/build quality - although of course I wish every success to those who are using them.
This morning Force 4 let me swap if for the Scoprega Bravo GTP that Fenlander recommended (plus a refund of the difference), which is a pump/brand that seems to have stood the test of time (and 30%+ faster on both stages). Next project now is to make a LiFePo4 battery box to share between pump/sounder and as an all round portable power source (USB, LED lights etc). Could be a nicer solution all round and gives me just the justification I need to upgrade my lead acid sounder battery

[Fenlander]

If you wanted the Bravo case has a compartment that will take a slim battery if you kept to a dedicated pump battery. Personally I'd not be pulling all the juice from my on-board battery running the pump to set up.

See Tim's post #15.

[Mattster]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

If you wanted the Bravo case has a compartment that will take a slim battery if you kept to a dedicated pump battery. Personally I'd not be pulling all the juice from my on-board battery running the pump to set up.

See Tim's post #15.

I'm just weighing up the pros and cons now. The nice thing about LiFePO4 is of course the weight, and the fact (or hope) that they last effectively forever with zero maintenance; 3000 deep discharge cycles, no sulphation etc, and they hold voltage over the full capacity (more or less) whereas lead acid is basically useless for electronics at 50% discharge as the voltage drops too much. LiFePO4 are also safe, and don't tend to explode when wet which makes it preferable to other lithium tech on a boat! The downside seems to be that LiFePO4 doesn't handle high discharge rates as well as lead acid, so I would need quite a big battery (12ah min) to be able to handle the 14.5A that this pump claims to draw. However if I do get the big battery then it should have more than ample capacity to handle pumping in the morning and my fishfinder for the rest of the day. Cost is about £75 for battery + charger vs about £15 for another 7ah lead acid.
Part of the motivation is that I am now running a 9 inch HDS sounder with totalscan transducer, and my 7ah is only giving me about 5 hours run time before it starts playing up (low voltage, but still prob 50% charge..) so I feel an upgrade is needed anyway.. a 12ah LiFePO4 is still half the weight of the 7ah lead acid I have.

[chipko]

Although not LifeP04 we’ve been running a couple of Chinese Poover 12v 20ah lithium batteries for three years…pretty light at 1.25kg and not exploded yet. Powers the Garmin for days, including a few topping up toobs, but as Fenlander would recommend separate battery for initial inflate.



Sorry to hear of your pump woes and probably a good decision to go down the Bravo route. We’ve tried a few of the cheaper options over the last few years, latest on test is a generic HIKS type 20psi dual stage 350/70l min. Working okay at the moment but early days yet.

To be honest the only cheap pump I’d seriously recommend is the Sevylor 15psi one. Only single stage but at 190l/min inflates faster than the above HIKS type and proved reliable over it’s four year use. Doesn’t seem to even get warm after pumping up two paddle boards fully.

[Mattster]

Originally Posted by chipko

Sorry to hear of your pump woes and probably a good decision to go down the Bravo route. We’ve tried a few of the cheaper options over the last few years, latest on test is a generic HIKS type 20psi dual stage 350/70l min. Working okay at the moment but early days yet.

To be honest the only cheap pump I’d seriously recommend is the Sevylor 15psi one. Only single stage but at 190l/min inflates faster than the above HIKS type and proved reliable over it’s four year use. Doesn’t seem to even get warm after pumping up two paddle boards fully.

To be fair, the pump wasn't cheap (£150), but that did include the 6ah lithium battery, and since same pump can be had for $60 on alibaba and is rebranded by many, I suspect it may be "cheap" in terms of build quality if not retail price. Certainly feel more confident in the Bravo, with its track record amongst forum users.

I think I might end up going for separate batteries after all, and use my existing 7ah lead acid for the pump and maybe get a 7ah LiFePO4 for the sounder. The problem at the end of the day is that the lithiums don't really like high current discharge - most of them sit at about 1C, or the same continuous discharge as their ah rating. Not a problem for you with your 20ah, but means you need at least a 12ah to run this pump whereas something much smaller will work for the sounder. Its the same issue that makes lithium unsuitable for cranking, although there are some crazy hybrid lithium-with-embedded-super-capacitor batteries now for this purpose. My existing 7ah YUASA is specced for 48A discharge for a full minute, so I'm pretty sure it can handle the pump just fine.