SIBs at Sea

Gazzago · 28 April 2018, 11:29

As I read through old posts on the forum I’ve found multiple references to people doing sea journeys in small SIBs. Plus lots of coastal work and fishing trips.

My Excel Volante 3.3m states it is Category C, inland use only. Waves no more than 0.6m I believe. I appreciate you could go to sea in a bath if you wanted but just wondered what the consensus is on this.

With this small boat I only expect to be on rivers, lakes and lochs. Although some lochs can be tidal and or salt water. Is it really considered acceptable to ignore the manufacturers category for a boat? Would your insurance still be valid?

The future prospect of coastal work sounds interesting with more experience, vhf etc but really is a 3.3m SIB enough?.....

Poly · 28 April 2018, 12:16

Ok, first don’t put too much weight on the Design Category. There are commmercial reasons why some very capable ribs are only rated at cat C - basically it’s much cheaper and nobody in the UK cares! So “category C” in the recreational craft directive as I recall was for significant wave heights of up to 2m. Significant wave height is a statistical measure, and means that you will get waves bigger than that, sometimes double it. 4m waves in a 3.3m boat are “interesting”. The correct name for this in the RCD is “inshore” but doesn’t mean not at sea.

The next cat down (D) is called “inland/sheltered” and has a wave height of 0.5m I think. It still doesn’t mean it’s not suitable for use in sea in good conditions.

So for the intended use you plan you are not ignoring the manuf design category. You do need to be much more aware of (and willing to change your plans to suit) the weather in a small boat.

One point to be aware of that causes some extra confusion is the MCGA categorise waters for commercial use. Unhelpfully they have used the letters A-D (in the opposite order, but with similar wave sizes etc) to describe water that is not subject to some of the provisions of the merchant shipping act. Those are completely irrelevant to the RCD.

Max... · 28 April 2018, 13:16

You'll be fine with provisos. Perfect size boat and engine. Key is confidence so go slowly, build up, be aware (weather, tides, charts) and well equipped. Consider strongly PB2.

Typically F3/4 on south coast and learning to pilot in different seas, waves, wind is great fun.

These small outfits are very capable and owner normally bottles it before boat is out of its depth.

Also one mile out seems a heck of a long way when you look back at land so you'll not want to venture out far. Just hug the coast.

Gazzago · 28 April 2018, 13:26

Thanks guys. That all makes sense. I’m looking forward to getting out more and also learning more.

I’ve been looking at some of the Ribnet trip videos and they look fantastic!... one day soon I hope [emoji1303]

HDAV · 28 April 2018, 13:51

Its all about managing the risk. Ideally cruise in company, have the right experience, gear, know what to do when things go wrong, who to contact and what to look for. Local knowledge helps a lot.

Re gear knowing how to use it is key, carry a local chart, compass etc. A Handheld GPS, VHF radio and mobile phone in a dry pouch will cover most eventualities. ( £150-200 ish investment in the electronics)

Anchor, rope etc already onboard and suitable....

But even better to have someone with you looking out for you. 3 small sibs each with 1-2 people but capacity for 4 travelling together is safer than any single vessel.

Fenlander · 28 April 2018, 14:02

Echoing what others have said. The SIB will be fine... it's all about sorting the kit you need and gaining experience.

The aspect I would highlight is understanding tides, tidal flow, wind, weather forecast & depths... and how all these interact with the potential for very different conditions on a return run from the settled conditions you started out in.

Lee1 · 28 April 2018, 19:49

As above and I've used cat D in Sea no problem (cat D I believe is for inshore rivers)

nicksharpe · 29 April 2018, 20:45

A very quick bit of seemingly obvious advice which applies to both my hobbies equally (SIBbing and cycling): if you think you're flying along without a care in the world, take a few moments to turn round and try going the other way.

The wind is probably at your back and the conditions on the return leg can be appalling, no matter how they seem on the way out.

Pikey Dave · 29 April 2018, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksharpe

A very quick bit of seemingly obvious advice which applies to both my hobbies equally (SIBbing and cycling): if you think you're flying along without a care in the world, take a few moments to turn round and try going the other way.

The wind is probably at your back and the conditions on the return leg can be appalling, no matter how they seem on the way out.

[emoji106] if we are going out nowhere in particular, for a spot of fishing for example. We always go "worst first" I.e into the weather.

Mikefule · 29 April 2018, 21:35

The design categories seem over cautious. For comparison, I have a 12 ft sailing dinghy, and the manufacturer's own website shows video of their 10 ft dinghy in the sea in more extreme conditions than the design certificate for the 12 ft..

The design limits of the boat include the maximum wave size, the number of crew, the weight of equipment, and the power of the engine. It stands to reason that if you are going to push the limits in one direction, you need to make compromises in another.

For example, if your boat can safely carry 4 people in 18 inch waves and you are planning to go out in 3 ft waves, maybe it's best to keep down to 2 people.

Years ago, I had a 3.4 metre boat with very fat tubes and would happily take it out solo in what I considered to be "quite a swell". It wasn't the size of the waves that was the problem. A boat will ride over fairly big waves. It's when the waves get steep, or when they're breaking, or when the wind is blowing hard that you can get into difficulties. Waves get steep when the wind is blowing hard, or a stiff breeze is blowing against the tide. A breaking wave crest can push your boat sideways or swamp your boat. If you get airborne off the top of a big wave and the wind gets under your bow, you can flip.

Another thing to watch out for is when waves reflect off a cliff or breakwater. Where waves cross, you get double height crests moving in unexpected directions.

But, keeping it simple, an inflatable is a robust and seaworthy vessel and, used with common sense, exploring the limits incrementally and building up your experience rather than "just going for it", you can have a lot of fun very safely.

Gazzago · 29 April 2018, 22:50

Thanks all that have contributed. Lots of sound advice there that I have taken on board.

willk · 30 April 2018, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazzago

My Excel Volante 3.3m states it is Category C, inland use only. Waves no more than 0.6m I believe. I appreciate you could go to sea in a bath if you wanted but just wondered what the consensus is on this.

With this small boat I only expect to be on rivers, lakes and lochs. Although some lochs can be tidal and or salt water. Is it really considered acceptable to ignore the manufacturers category for a boat? Would your insurance still be valid?

The future prospect of coastal work sounds interesting with more experience, vhf etc but really is a 3.3m SIB enough?.....

There appears to be some conflation on this thread.
There are two unrelated systems that seem to be bleeding over into this discussion:

1. Categorised Waters
2. RCD Categories

You are 3 of 2. Not inland, but Inshore/Coastal

Enjoy

HDAV · 30 April 2018, 09:04

Quote:

3.7. Liferaft stowage - All craft of categories A and B, and craft of categories C and D longer than six metres shall be provided with one or more stowage points for a liferaft (liferafts) large enough to hold the number of persons the boat was designed to carry as recommended by the manufacturer. This (these) stowage point(s) shall be readily accessible at all times.

This would be a major factor in classifying a craft as C rather than B, the life raft would potentially be as large as the vessel!

Poly · 30 April 2018, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDAV

This would be a major factor in classifying a craft as C rather than B, the life raft would potentially be as large as the vessel!

A four man life raft fits in a bag about the size of a sports hold-all. Whilst it would be very odd to take one on a 3.3m sib it’s not actually impossible and you could comply with that design requirement. The bigger factor is that cat B boats require a notified body to be paid to inspect the technical file whereas c and d do not.

jeffstevens763@g · 30 April 2018, 18:57

Get to know the weather I regularly go 50 miles in a day but not in 2m seas pick your days and you will fine.

The Gurnard · 30 April 2018, 20:02

Hi Gazzago ...

My grandfather was a gardener and he told me “Plant small to grow tall” and I have found it true for most things we do in life.. including SIB’ing.

I started using small inflatable’s powered by 2.5HP outboards in sheltered sea lochs and after many years have no problem going multi day adventures where wind and weather changes all the time.. as does the lengths of open sea crossing or coast hugging tactics.

I doubt you would be able to do that as a beginner.. but start with small adventures to find both your boat and your own limits and build on it each outing. It would be extremely foolish going out in two meters breaking waves with little experience.. but with experience it is not a problem for a decent SIB.

Im just back from a long weekend 135 miles sea trip .. in good weather ..winds from 0 up to F4. Weather is not always so kind to me ..so some days Im happy to sit on a shore until it improves again. Being flexible in your plans is the key to success.

The boats were slightly bigger than yours ..mine being a 4.3m Quicksilver ..two others were a Honwave T4 and a Honwave 3.8 airfloor ..and it is just like driving a car when you know how to route plan..which involves knowing which direction to go ... which is often wind direction dependant.. and when to wait for tides to change direction to assist your passage rather than fight them. etc.

Going with other SIB’ers who have experience is a good way to build your own experience ..an example being ... the Scottish SIB outing that some members enjoy going on.

http://www.rib.net/forum/f18/scottis...une-77265.html

For me.. there is nothing more satisfying than being at sea in a SIB .. here is a map of my weekend route ..we were looking for Orca whales in the Clyde.

Did we find them ? Well..you will have to wait till I produce the video to find out. I will post it on the forum in a few days time for those interested.

All IMO

Highland Haggis · 01 May 2018, 00:12

Take notes on what the gurnard says he is one of the best people to learn from his knowledge and experience is second to none follow his advice and you won’t go far wrong
great weekend gurnard [emoji41][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481]

Gazzago · 01 May 2018, 18:00

For me.. there is nothing more satisfying than being at sea in a SIB .. here is a map of my weekend route ..we were looking for Orca whales in the Clyde.

Thanks you’ve inspired me. I’m loving your videos! They are fantastic and very well put together. Your efforts have not gone unappreciated.

I’m hoping to do similar journeys on the west coast. I’d love to join you guys for this years adventure but I think it will be a little too soon for me. I need more lake experience and a dry suit, vhf etc before venturing onto the sea.

Do keep making your videos and thanks for the advice [emoji1303]