Small SIB sea worthiness

[Mikefule]

Originally Posted by Callum B

Theres a lot of wisdom gone before, and i understand the question, however, I would suggest that all the best bits are within ¼ mile of the land.

Long offshore passages, which ive done many of, are somewhat dull imo.

All fair points, but if someone has a specific reason to go further out, such as reaching a particular fishing grounds, or island, or just the adventure of being out of sight of land, they won't be convinced.

If the OP is keen to go that far out for whatever reason, they need to be aware of the many risks, and have a big enough boat, with enough failsafes and safety equipment etc.

To a novice reading the manufacturers' catalogues, 10 miles sounds like 30 or 40 minutes, which translates in the mind to "not far at all, but enough to be fun". In reality, 10 miles off shore out of sight of land in any small boat is a serious expedition.

For me, exploring coves and bays and backwaters, anchoring, picnicking and swimming would be far more fun than a single long slog. I've done long slogs in the past and I doubt I'll do so again.

[The Gurnard]

I can fully understand why Ben would wish to go 10 miles out. He is an urbex photographer and it would be a thrill for him to photograph somewhere the normal urbex photographer cant access. Photography was one of the reasons I started going off shore.

I can also understand why folks that live on featureless coastlines would not consider going 10 miles off shore unless they were keen fishermen and know good fishing grounds were 10 miles off shore

But I will add that there are plenty of interesting islands 10 or so miles from the west coast of Scotland and as such there are quite a few SIBS that do these distances... If fact ..not only SIBS go to these far off islands but experienced seakayakers.. so for many.. its not such a tiring or boring journey as some suggest.


There are also plenty SIBs up my neck of the woods that carry Aux outboards as handheld radio transmission is abysmal and there are often few other boats to relay the transmissions. Both SIBS the attached video have Aux outboards. One sib is 3.8 meter airfloor ..the other a 4.3M wooden floor

Im certainly not suggesting a novice does it ..but Im posting this as a more balanced picture that 3.5 + meter SIBs do go ten miles off shore... and unless its poor weather..or very hazey ..you generally see the land 10 miles away no problem.

Here is a video of one of my favourite islands 10 miles from the Ayrshire coast. While the Bass rock on the east coast can match the sight and sound of so many Gannets and other seabirds in a small area..it does not have such interesting history IMO.

Im not aware of anywhere on the mainland that can touch it for interesting history and seabirds in such a small area

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKlkFvhdix8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGQwojdiUpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmVkeG4PVN8

However again ... for absolute clarification..Im not recommending Ben do attempt going 10 miles out ..it requires sea skills which he does not have but SIBS do such journeys.. regularly up in the North West!!

[beerbelly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmVkeG4PVN8

However again ... for absolute clarification..Im not recommending Ben do attempt going 10 miles out ..it requires sea skills which he does not have but SIBS do such journeys.. regularly up in the North West!![/QUOTE]

looks just like a big curling stone

[The Gurnard]

Originally Posted by beerbelly

looks just like a big curling stone

Yup..it is ..and I appreciate not everyone will see it in the same light as I do.

.However my point was...SIBs are more seaworthy than many seem to give credit and quite a few people do ten mile crossings in them on the west of Scotland.

Off the top of my head I can name at least five members of this forum that do these types of journeys quite regularly in SIBs...some come all the way from south England to do them .. in fact HH’s Scottish Sib outing was going to do one this year if it had not been cancelled Blackwaterfoot to Campeltown is approx 10 miles. ..the whole round trip around 120 miles. Its not everyones cup of tea..but that does not mean others don’t enjoy them

https://www.rib.net/forum/f18/scotti...0-a-82983.html

However I will reiterate ..for anyone who does think it is a major challenge in a SIB ..then for them I do agree.. dont do it...boating is supposed to be enjoyable and you need to do it safely

[Highland Haggis]

Only time and practice will give you confidence but remember to walk before you run I have only just scratched the surface of SIB,S the gurnard is a true master and everyday is a school day even for the master try small outings and meet ups with other people see how there set up is and take advice from them you will only get one chance with the sea.
The gurnard video's will give you lots of information and advice if you contact him am sure he will try and guide you through the process of organising a trip out.
We have been on a few trips with the gurnard when one of our members had problems with his engine we where out at fingals cave when his engine cut out lucky he got it going and managed to limp home this could have gone totally wrong if he was on his own but he had back up engine and two other boats to tow him to safety if needed.and always consider where you can go quickly if the weather changes fast ie nearest peace of land that you can get to good luck with your outings and stay safe HH

[Mikefule]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

.However my point was...SIBs are more seaworthy than many seem to give credit and quite a few people do ten mile crossings in them on the west of Scotland.

You seem at least in part to be influenced by what I posted earlier. However, I agree that SIBs are exceptionally seaworthy boats for their size. What is often less seaworthy is the person in the boat.

My main motive in responding to this thread has been to highlight the many complex issues and risks that would face a novice going 10 miles out of sight if land. Incidentally, that is a different thing from a 10 mile crossing to an island, when, weather permitting, you will be in sight of land for most of the trip.

Going ten miles out to sea in clear calm conditions would be an enjoyable 40 minutes on the plane.

As you know, far better than I, coming back after a change of weather in a deteriorating sea state, at displacement speeds, is a much bigger thing. Add to that an engine problem, a bit of panic, getting cold, hungry and thirsty... and being 10 degrees off course, or maybe being carried along the coast by the tide: these are all things that the novice who asked the question at the start of the thread may not have thought about.

My own preference is not that relevant, but I'd happily do many miles of changing scenery, hopping from island to island, or rounding the next headland, stopping from time to time when circumstances suggest themselves. However, given the way my life and interests have changed, I doubt I'll ever do any "serious" SIB trips again.

[The Gurnard]

Hi Mike .. Im certain we both agree on the fact it would be silly and also dangerous for Ben or any novice to go 10 miles out to sea ..whether to a Fort off London or a lump of rock in the Clyde..IMO it makes no difference...so we are both singing of the same hymn sheet

The only thing that I was referencing to what you wrote ... was in regards to your statement when someone asked if SIB’s carried an aux OB to which you replied

Quote .. 1) No, virtually none, but then virtually none go 10 miles out to sea

The observations of my boating area don’t agree with that statement.. and that is why I gave both a video and a link to HH’s Sib outing ..which has quite a few folk interested in it. It includes a 10 mile open sea crossing of the Kilbrannan Sound which is very tidal. However Im certain HH would only do it if the weather was suitable.

My main words in general are not directed at Ben... nor to youself... My words are for anyone who has a lot of experience but perhaps never done a 10 mile open sea crossings and may be put off ever doing it after reading some comments posted . Agreed ...it is an experience that can be un nerving until you condition yourself for it .. only by doing it and increasing your experience.

IMO on the west of Scotland you are missing loads if you don’t .. like Ailsa Craig ..Eigg .. Rum .. Canna.. Colonsay ... Oronsay ..Jura..The Treshnish Isles .. the list goes on an on.

Yes..I pick my weather windows for the SIB but I have been there and worn the T shirts and will be doing so again as soon as Lockdown Lifts because for me its not tedious journeys.. Myself , HH and others enjoy the wide open sea ... after all its the reason we have boats

I hope that clarifies my words

[Mikefule]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

Hi Mike .. Im certain we both agree on the fact it would be silly and also dangerous for Ben or any novice to go 10 miles out to sea ..whether to a Fort off London or a lump of rock in the Clyde..IMO it makes no difference...so we are both singing of the same hymn sheet

The only thing that I was referencing to what you wrote ... was in regards to your statement when someone asked if SIB’s carried an aux OB to which you replied

Quote .. 1) No, virtually none, but then virtually none go 10 miles out to sea

The observations of my boating area don’t agree with that statement.. and that is why I gave both a video and a link to HH’s Sib outing ..which has quite a few folk interested in it. It includes a 10 mile open sea crossing of the Kilbrannan Sound which is very tidal. However Im certain HH would only do it if the weather was suitable.

My main words in general are not directed at Ben... nor to youself... My words are for anyone who has a lot of experience but perhaps never done a 10 mile open sea crossings and may be put off ever doing it after reading some comments posted . Agreed ...it is an experience that can be un nerving until you condition yourself for it .. only by doing it and increasing your experience.

IMO on the west of Scotland you are missing loads if you don’t .. like Ailsa Craig ..Eigg .. Rum .. Canna.. Colonsay ... Oronsay ..Jura..The Treshnish Isles .. the list goes on an on.

Yes..I pick my weather windows for the SIB but I have been there and worn the T shirts and will be doing so again as soon as Lockdown Lifts because for me its not tedious journeys.. Myself , HH and others enjoy the wide open sea ... after all its the reason we have boats

I hope that clarifies my words

Thanks. However, rather than "virtually none" perhaps I should have said, "A tiny percentage." You will know many individuals who use their SIBs for serious touring, voyages, crossings, etc. However, the vast majority of SIBS sold are not used to this extent.

For comparison, some people tour huge distances on Harley Davidsons, but most do a few Sunday trips each year to the local bikers' honeypot. Most unicycles sit in the under stair cupboard, but I know lots of people who ride them long distances cross country. Etc. What is "the norm" to the serious enthusiast is really the exception.

But you are right that in seeking to emphasise the risks to the the individual who started this thread, I didn't take into account the effect on others who might be more ready to extend their cruising further.

[The Gurnard]

Originally Posted by Mikefule

What is "the norm" to the serious enthusiast is really the exception.

Yup.. and For another comparison in a similar vein as your Harley analogy and is also a true story.


An ex boss that I worked for a few years back ..and who was loaded with money ..bought a brand new 60 foot Beneteux yacht . He kept it in Cannes harbour on the south of France. When he told me about it I said..

“What did you buy that for Neil ..you don’t sail do you ? “

He then replied .
.
“Sail Donny ? ..god no..it will never be out the harbour..but its the best Chick magnet I ever had.

He lured them on board by telling them he was a sailor... and I couldn’t argue with that as he had a boat I would have died for... and the chicks he pulled was unbelievable

stay safe Mike

[jeffstevens763@g]

IMO 3.8m 20-25hp is the minimum i would have for that type of trip with my experience,i do some pretty lengthy trips both alone and in company i must say in company has the best feel good factor in terms of safety & enjoyment. i started a thread fitting out my new SIB i did it to not only show the build up of the boat but to itemise all the kit i carry too basically to help others starting out it doesn't stop at the boat and engine for sure. having said that you can have great fun close inshore on the right days with a small boat i stress on the right days.
above all dont let budget drive you into risk

[Ferryman]

Just a small point, a 10 mile crossing in a SIB is a serious endeavour but you’re 5 miles from land and it still feels a long way from home.

Personally, 10 miles out into the open sea in a SIB is for a very few totally experienced people who understand have prepared for anything!!

[John Kennett]

The best bet for ben324 might not involve buying a boat at all, but seeing if anyone with a suitable boat fancies joining up for an expedition. I’m sure there are plenty of people here who have been meaning to get out to the Thames first but need a bit of a nudge to get round to it.

[Fenlander]

Think there's a boat trip that visits the Thames forts... for when the restrictions lift.

In truth if the visit/exploration is the main driver for this idea probably that's better than getting involved with the whole boating purchase faff.

[HiltonHeadMatt]

Originally Posted by Mikefule

A 9.9 or a 15 weigh about the same (some variation between manufacturers). I can lift my 9.9 and carry it from the car to the slipway "in one go" or lift it back into the car, unassisted, but it's a struggle.

One thing with an engine over about 6 or 8 hp is it needs a remote tank, and that means an extra item to carry, and extra clutter in the boat. Smaller engines have built in tanks. Slight disadvantage of a built in tank is refuelling is tricky out on the water, but you can usually get round that with careful planning. It's tricky, but not impossible.

My 310 will plane on flat water with just me on board using my 3 hp 2 stroke.

Once the water gets choppy, going fast in a small SIB is exhilarating but tiring. For a long day, chugging at displacement speeds is often drier and more comfortable — and can be safer.

General rule of SIBs: small is better for the 99% of the time you're not on the water: paying for it, insuring it, storing it, transporting it, pumping it up, dragging it across the beach or up the slipway. Bigger is better for most of the time that you're on the water as bigger is drier, more comfortable and relaxed. (However, a smaller one will go into small gaps between rocks, up narrower arms of the river, etc.)

General rule of engines: bigger is great when you have the opportunity to go fast, but that is a surprisingly small amount of the time. Smaller is better for all the other times: paying for it, insuring it, storing it, transporting it, maintaining it, carrying it... you get the idea.

For a solo general purpose set up, something like a 310 to 340 sized hull with something like a 6hp or 8hp engine will do most things that you would sensibly ask of it. It will carry 3 adults, or give one person room to stretch out and have a kip. It will fit in the boot of your car. It won't take too long to assemble or disassemble. It will go reasonably fast in decent conditions, and cope with reasonably difficult conditions.

If I made my choice again, I'd put more emphasis on tube diameter, for comfort and dryness.

This should be pinned - helped me (a newbie as well) a lot! thanks a bunch Mike!

[ben324]

The advice here and in the rest of the forum is great. I didn't think such a forum with so much information existed. This has helped a lot considering I have zero experience.

I have seen some Boatword own brand SIBs
https://boatworld.co.uk/boatworld-33...rch=inflatable
I have not managed to find many reviews on these. They are cheaper than the brands that everyone likes. Does anyone have any experience with the build quality.

The other thing, with a 15HP engine, how difficult is carrying it to the boat, and moving the boat into the water. It seems like the entire thing could weigh 100kg.

[HiltonHeadMatt]

Originally Posted by ben324

The advice here and in the rest of the forum is great. I didn't think such a forum with so much information existed. This has helped a lot considering I have zero experience.

The other thing, with a 15HP engine, how difficult is carrying it to the boat, and moving the boat into the water. It seems like the entire thing could weigh 100kg.

Indeed this is best forum around for RIB/SIB! - I tried to go to another general boat site and got nothing but anti-SIB propoganda! lol "The Hull Truth" dont bother checking it out lol

I have not done this yet personally but from my research a 15hp 4 stroke of any brand is gonna run 90-110 pounds weight i think --- depends on how heavy that is to you . you can get a little cart for the outboard and once on the boat if it has transom wheels it seems fairly simple to roll the boat into the water

[benhben]

Originally Posted by ben324

The advice here and in the rest of the forum is great. I didn't think such a forum with so much information existed. This has helped a lot considering I have zero experience.

I have seen some Boatword own brand SIBs
https://boatworld.co.uk/boatworld-33...rch=inflatable
I have not managed to find many reviews on these. They are cheaper than the brands that everyone likes. Does anyone have any experience with the build quality.

The other thing, with a 15HP engine, how difficult is carrying it to the boat, and moving the boat into the water. It seems like the entire thing could weigh 100kg.

I got into SIBing last year with the purchase of my first SIB, second hand. Youre right a SIB loaded with gear and outboard is very heavy. The biggest thing that has improved mine is buying some decent wide launching wheels. The wheels that came with my boat orignally wiere rubbish thin wheels and these just sunk into the sand and made pulling accross the beach a nightmare, especially at low tide! I bought some wider more solid wheels and it feels much easier (albeit in the garden, the covid flue has stopped any use this year so far!).

Ive even upgraded to a heavier 15hp motor and with the new wheels it still feels more portable than the old wheels and a 5hp 2 stroke.

Ben H