Ultimate SIB

ian parkes · 23 August 2007, 22:00

A mate of mine is after a really good sib with top performance . He is looking at a 4.1 Futura . I wondered if the Ceasar Surfcat may be an even better performing boat . Not sure what the futura will take engine size but the Surfcat will take over 50 hp and I expect perform not far short of a zapcat .

has anyone ever had a chance to compare the two .

BumbleAbout · 28 August 2007, 13:50

I looked at all of those (plus the Gemini) and ended up with a Zodiac Futura 4.2m with a 50hp - mainly because I needed seating for 2 adults and 2 children.

If I was only looking at seating 2 adults, then the Ceasar Surfcat or Zapcat would get a lot of thought.

ian parkes · 28 August 2007, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by BumbleAbout

I looked at all of those (plus the Gemini) and ended up with a Zodiac Futura 4.2m with a 50hp - mainly because I needed seating for 2 adults and 2 children.

If I was only looking at seating 2 adults, then the Ceasar Surfcat or Zapcat would get a lot of thought.

The surfcat is 4.1m I think , didn't look at the beam but presume its similar size . He wan'ts and open tiller steered sib , and I am really thinking of doing the same .
For what I do with the rib a sib may be better and higher performance , maybe .
I have not seen iether in the flesh but looking at pictures the hijackers on the ceasar look much better plus it has footstraps .

Only worry is remembering just how hard work the Honda 3.8 I had was in big chop , the boat could take it you had to be superhuman .

Iether must be pretty good fun with a 50hp

genoa · 28 August 2007, 14:57

I have the Futura FR Mk IIc- it goes like stink. THe nerve goes before the boat!
But at the same time is very family friendly with the tubes being comfortable as always, depends on the usage as to what is best, but the kids (14&16) can safely use it as well.

prairie tuber · 29 August 2007, 05:59

I just picked up a Gemini Dive 470 (finally after ordering it 1 year ago). It is rated for up to 80 hp, and is one mother of a SIB. The build quality of this boat (1670 dtx hypalon) is amazing, but it is big & heavy when folded up. If you aren't trailering it, you'd definitely need a pickup truck to haul it around. I haven't taken any pictures yet but hopefully will this weekend and will do a write up on it.

The next size down in Gemini's SIB lineup is is the 4.2m Surf GRX. It is a fair bit roomier than a Mark 2 futura. Like the Dive series, the Surfs are also extremely well built, yet considerably lighter in weight.

Channel Ribs · 29 August 2007, 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

The next size down in Gemini's SIB lineup is is the 4.2m Surf GRX. It is a fair bit roomier than a Mark 2 futura. Like the Dive series, the Surfs are also extremely well built, yet considerably lighter in weight.

Would this be similar, albeit more toward the budget end:
http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21125

BumbleAbout · 29 August 2007, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by malthouse

Would this be similar, albeit more toward the budget end:
http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21125

No ! The difference is that the other ones above all have speed tubes/ hijackers underneath - which to the best of my knowledge, the Quicksilvers do not.

fast fred · 29 August 2007, 11:37

they really Do not compare, the performance of the SLT is about 2x that of any other sib, the Futura can't hold a stick to any of them, the cat would just leave it standin thare.

prairie tuber · 29 August 2007, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by malthouse

Would this be similar, albeit more toward the budget end:
http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21125

Very different hull designs. The Quicksilver has the more traditional inflatable V keel, whereas the catamaran hulls used found on the Dive, Surf & Zapcat, (Gemini), Surfcat, Thundercat & Thunderbolt (Ceasar), as well other thundercat designs such as those by Aquarius, all use highjackers to create an extremely efficient hull. Another benefit of these designs is the bottom fabric under the floorboards is raised and much better protected when beaching the boat.

The Zodiac Futura designs do use small highjackers, but also retain the central inflatable V keel. They would be far better off (both in terms of efficiency & durability/maintenance) to use larger highjackers and scrap the central V-keel entirely.

genoa · 29 August 2007, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

The Zodiac Futura designs do use small highjackers, but also retain the central inflatable V keel. They would be far better off (both in terms of efficiency & durability/maintenance) to use larger highjackers and scrap the central V-keel entirely.

I disagree. The designs are different because the boats have a different target customer. The zodiac speed tubes do give lift for planning but the boat is also a very stable load carrier at slower speeds, and because the floor is lower than the cat designs is far more stable as a dive platform.
On the other hand the cats are intended for out and out speed for which they can be commended. If that is your thing.

prairie tuber · 29 August 2007, 15:35

I'm quite familiar with the Zodiacs (I own 2 zodiac V keel SIBs) and am also very familiar with the Futura design. The Futuras are stable while at rest (as are the Gemini catamaran SIBS), but would actually be more stable without the V-keel than with it. When I had the Dive 470 out on the water the other day, all 5 of us sat on starboard sponson trying to rock the boat side to side and could barely get the boat to move at all.

ian parkes · 06 September 2007, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast fred

they really Do not compare, the performance of the SLT is about 2x that of any other sib, the Futura can't hold a stick to any of them, the cat would just leave it standin thare.

have i missed something , what';s the SLT ?

Made a few enquiries about a surfcat , would be a fun stopgap boat I think for me .
Bigest problem it seems is that 50hp motors with tiller steer are getting rare and not being imported any more . The Tohatsu seems to be regarded as the best for simplicity as a pull start with no electrics and the lightest. Although i fancy a Yam .

hard to get any info at all on the gemini range .

prairie tuber · 06 September 2007, 14:22

Ian,

SLT stands for Superlight Tunnel Hull, which is the designation that the American Powerboat Association assigns to the zapcat/thundercat style boats.

I can certainly understand your frustration with trying to get info on the Gemini range. Last summer I travelled 2000 km to the west coast to look at them in person and test drive one. They do make a great boat, but you'd almost think that they are purposefully trying not to expand their business.

If I can answer any questions about the Dive 470 feel free to either PM me or ask in the thread I posted about it. Also, Ed the Duck has a hypalon Surf GRX 420 which he really likes.

ian parkes · 06 September 2007, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Ian,

SLT stands for Superlight Tunnel Hull, which is the designation that the American Powerboat Association assigns to the zapcat/thundercat style boats.

I can certainly understand your frustration with trying to get info on the Gemini range. Last summer I travelled 2000 km to the west coast to look at them in person and test drive one. They do make a great boat, but you'd almost think that they are purposefully trying not to expand their business.

If I can answer any questions about the Dive 470 feel free to either PM me or ask in the thread I posted about it. Also, Ed the Duck has a hypalon Surf GRX 420 which he really likes.

I remember chatting to Ed The Duck , where has he gone , not seen any posts for a while from him .

80hp sib sounds pretty extreme on a sib . could be fun with a tiller

Be good to see some pics of it etc

prairie tuber · 06 September 2007, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Be good to see some pics of it etc

I've got some in this thread & I'll try to get some more detailed pictures on the weekend.

http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21247

ZodiacFuturaMk2 · 06 September 2007, 23:07

Im now on my third Zodiac Futura (2007 Mk2 HD) and now running with a manual start and tilt Yamaha 50hp 2 stroke - The certainly doesnt hang around as its so light AND is very stable for off-loading and pickup up skiers and fishing, diving etc.

I can recommend the futura as a lightweight all rounder but if youre after hyper-speed you wont beat a basic tiller controlled SLT!

Cheers

Gareth

ian parkes · 06 September 2007, 23:15

sorry hadn't seen the other post , been away for the last week or so .
Looks a very solid built boat .

ian parkes · 06 September 2007, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodiacFuturaMk2

Im now on my third Zodiac Futura (2007 Mk2 HD) and now running with a manual start and tilt Yamaha 50hp 2 stroke - The certainly doesnt hang around as its so light AND is very stable for off-loading and pickup up skiers and fishing, diving etc.

I can recommend the futura as a lightweight all rounder but if youre after hyper-speed you wont beat a basic tiller controlled SLT!

Cheers

Gareth

I used to really enjoy the tiller controll on the SIb I had . so much more feel and controll than a steering wheel and throttle lever which is what Iam growing to dislike with the rib .

Nos4r2 · 06 September 2007, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

I used to really enjoy the tiller controll on the SIb I had . so much more feel and controll than a steering wheel and throttle lever which is what Iam growing to dislike with the rib .

Yeah but can you imagine how much hard work that stretch from Looe to Fowey would have been in a sib after we'd been to Eddystone?

ian parkes · 07 September 2007, 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Yeah but can you imagine how much hard work that stretch from Looe to Fowey would have been in a sib after we'd been to Eddystone?

I did some longer trips in the SIb , the problem was not the driving controlls or position it was the way it beat me up in a chop . Air floors are evil in the sort of sea we had back to Fowey .
Chucking it about in surf or in the wake of a bigger boat was lots of fun with a tiller .
Thats the big question , how comfy is a surfcat or similar cruising in a choppy sea . Iam told they give a ride equal to small rib like mine .