Which 4m Sib

69cmw · 22 October 2018, 21:10

Looking to get a new sib, around the 4m size, I have a trailer for it, it may get deflated a couple of times a year but that’s about it.
So an air floor isn’t a necessity
What do the expert sibbers recommend?

jeffstevens763@g · 22 October 2018, 21:32

I like the Mercury / quicksilver make heavey duty welded seams in PVC you can buy hypalon 2/3rds the price again though. Honwave is a good boat too especially at that length. Excel worth a look too. Bombard/zodiac are good but the price hike is too much in my opinion.

69cmw · 22 October 2018, 22:11

I’ve had a Zodiac Mk2c and a Bombard Aerotec a few years ago, I’m with you on the current pricing, IMHO I don’t think they are worth it now.
I looked at Excel, but from what I saw they bow looks flattish, whereas the Honwave T40 looks more pronounced.

jeffstevens763@g · 22 October 2018, 22:37

When you look at the quicksilver 410 it's bow is a lot (larger keel) higher than mine at 365 the old 380 ( shorter cones) both same maker look on the gurnard's mull and Skye trips both are boats together plus the honwaves of Kaman and highland haggis similar difference

Fenlander · 22 October 2018, 22:47

I'd agree with the Zodiac vs Honwave price comments Jeff makes. About £1000 for a 4m Honwave vs £3500 for a 3.8m Zodiac Classic.

Both alloy floor with LP sausage keel and similar dimensions. I bet the way they perform and handle is near identical. So about all you get for the Zodiac's extra £2500 is a better colour scheme and welded tube seams. Hard to justify really.

If you had a budget between the two I'd consider a Mercury/Quicksilver like Jeff's. £1700 as a 3.65m and £2050 as a 4.15m. They look/feel that bit better quality than the Honwave and look nice in red with black trims.

Fenlander · 22 October 2018, 23:09

And of course the usual question. If you are going to trail would one of the lightweight alloy floor RIBs suit?

69cmw · 22 October 2018, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

And of course the usual question. If you are going to trail would one of the lightweight alloy floor RIBs suit?

No, reason being is a couple of times a year I would deflate it and take it away with the caravan and use a collapsible launching trolley.
But the thought has crossed my mind a few times though.

Limecc · 22 October 2018, 23:52

Personally feel a 4m SIB is a mistake if you are prepared to trailer. At this size an aluminium floor would be mandatory IMHO unless you are prepared to put up with floor flexing and they all do it, Bombard excepted. I learned by experience, sold up and got a used RIB instead. Design limitations with floor flex and weight mean 4m SIB's are the largest size you can buy for good reason.

If cost dictates an air floor then Honwave style looks good to me but I was put off because water sloshes around in the V and all your gear bounces to the middle and gets wetter than it should. The floor is not separately replaceable like the Excel Volante, there's fewer air chambers and it's made of PVC which is cheaper and inferior. Zodiac is probably on par with the Excel but it's also more expensive which would buy you the Alu floor of an Excel Vanguard. If you get a proper photo of the deep keel you'll see the Honwave does not have any advantage in this department. Mercury don't sell an air deck floor bigger than 3.2m then they switch to composite or alloy.

At the end of the day all SIBs and RIBs have pros and cons I hope you get the choice right first time like I didn't.

Edit: Since I wrote all the above I see you are a caravanner like me. I now prefer either making two journeys or taking both tow cars to avoid soft hull compromises. I've also thought about seasonal storage.

Limecc · 23 October 2018, 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69cmw

I looked at Excel, but from what I saw they bow looks flattish, whereas the Honwave T40 looks more pronounced.

When I get chance I'll post some images proving this is not the case.

jeffstevens763@g · 23 October 2018, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limecc

Personally feel a 4m SIB is a mistake if you are prepared to trailer. At this size an aluminium floor would be mandatory IMHO unless you are prepared to put up with floor flexing and they all do it, Bombard excepted. I learned by experience, sold up and got a used RIB instead. Design limitations with floor flex and weight mean 4m SIB's are the largest size you can buy for good reason.

If cost dictates an air floor then Honwave style looks good to me but I was put off because water sloshes around in the V and all your gear bounces to the middle and gets wetter than it should. The floor is not separately replaceable like the Excel Volante, there's fewer air chambers and it's made of PVC which is cheaper and inferior. Zodiac is probably on par with the Excel but it's also more expensive which would buy you the Alu floor of an Excel Vanguard. If you get a proper photo of the deep keel you'll see the Honwave does not have any advantage in this department. Mercury don't sell an air deck floor bigger than 3.2m then they switch to composite or alloy.

At the end of the day all SIBs and RIBs have pros and cons I hope you get the choice right first time like I didn't.

Edit: Since I wrote all the above I see you are a caravanner like me. I now prefer either making two journeys or taking both tow cars to avoid soft hull compromises. I've also thought about seasonal storage.

first you can buy sibs much bigger that 4m see pic, the flex on the floor is for a reason the bow needs to move up and down hence always made of wood. the alli floor part should be stable with the stringers keeping it ridged with the keel pumped up to pressure. as for water sloshing around you have auto drains there shouldn't be hardly any water on the deck all should be under the boards or your doing something wrong. the OP has other boats and the sib is a compromise for his caravaning activities. a 4m sib is a very capable boat not light mine weighs in at 100 kg something to consider.another boat i would consider is the takacat 3.4 explorer not cheep fiberglass hull planes on low HP engines would be ideal for caravaning not sure of weight i think around 60kg

Limecc · 23 October 2018, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

first you can buy sibs much bigger that 4m see pic

I wasn't very clear I should have said SIB with air deck, larger SIB's always have (and need) aluminum decks.

Regarding water sloshing I was referring the Honwave which doesn't have a flat floor or auto bailer.

jeffstevens763@g · 23 October 2018, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limecc

I wasn't very clear I should have said SIB with air deck, larger SIB's always have (and need) aluminum decks.

Regarding water sloshing I was referring the Honwave which doesn't have a flat floor or auto bailer.

we have a SIT air floor at work 5m boat sausage keel concave deck laced in.

pic of a small honwave i bought for the grandkids v floor and drain never seen a sib without drain certainly never buy one if it didnt

Limecc · 23 October 2018, 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

we have a SIT air floor at work 5m boat sausage keel concave deck laced in.

pic of a small honwave i bought for the grandkids v floor and drain never seen a sib without drain certainly never buy one if it didnt

Drain but not auto bailer? Looking at that pic maybe it's never submerged.

Wow 5m is outside the norm and is a massive compromise. How does it handle when loaded and what's the max HP?

Limecc · 23 October 2018, 09:46

Here's my old 3.9m Excel from the rear showing the auto bailer and angle of V, no worse than others in it's class.

jeffstevens763@g · 23 October 2018, 09:48

it is auto got a mushroom valve in it bought secondhand might be a mod from previous owner
data sheets on their craft

ResQ | SIT Ltd

jeffstevens763@g · 23 October 2018, 10:04

this might appeal lighter fabric high shear bow

Ron Hale Marine Ltd - SeaSearch SS420 Aluminium Deck

69cmw · 23 October 2018, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

the OP has other boats and the sib is a compromise for his caravaning activities.

And also hopefully join you sibbers on your Scottish trips if I’m not away at work [emoji106]🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Fenlander · 23 October 2018, 10:44

I hate to seem nit picking LimeCC but it's important that anyone reading back on threads containing advice get the full picture.

The Excel sales guy is very much like a USA preacher... he wants you to believe in Excel... pay him the money... and spread the word. He is very good at planting doubt re other makes to enhance his sales.

You said... *** Honwave… put off because water sloshes around in the V and all your gear bounces to the middle and gets wetter than it should. The floor is not separately replaceable like the Excel Volante, there's fewer air chambers and it's made of PVC which is cheaper and inferior. Honwave which doesn't have... auto bailer. ***

In truth gear will bounce around any SIB at sea so it's very wise to have in proper waterproof bags/boxes and keep secured.

The idea of a separate air floor so it is "easily" replaced is a core part of the Excel sermon which has little bearing on real life. Get an air floor puncture (Honwave or Excel) and repair it with easy DIY kit using less than £10 of materials. Why would you pay hundreds for a new air floor?

Fewer air chambers in a Honwave?? Your 3.9m air floor Excel had 5 chambers... the 3.8m air floor Honwave has 5.

Honwave tube material cheaper and inferior... really? My experience of the past ten years and as many SIBs finds for UK leisure use the PVC type materials across all major makes lasts well and it's the glue that goes first 99% of the time.

No auto-bailer on Honwave?? All SIBs inc Honwave have broadly the same arrangement... a hole with a non-return diaphragm and a bung or slide... below the water at rest and above when on the plane. There is nothing magic about the Excel one.... they all only "self-bail" on the plane.

And the thing Excel never mention is with their flat air floor SIBs like your 3.9m they are the design (compared to the high pressure V Honwave) most likely to suffer flexing floors hence annoying prop ventilation/slip issues when trying to push on.... the very flexing you suffered. Yes the 3.8m air floor Honwave can suffer to a degree but nothing like the flat air floors with a low pressure keel.

Roflhat · 23 October 2018, 11:14

Thundercat

jeffstevens763@g · 23 October 2018, 11:25

thanks for clearing the drain spec david i thought i had a spec change although had countless sibs over the years first one a rover which had a mushroom valve even then.
i'm not an air floor man but the little honwave is solid when i bought it it was in hell of a state with green mould all over it been in the sun for months i got some TFR and cleaned it up as you see in the pic good as new as for quality nothing wrong with them at all apart from colour i like a red or orange might go yellow just to be seen. on the skye trip highland haggis's 4 m honwave was superb with a twenty hp on the back mind he does travel very very lightweight and gets very good fuel consumption.
i think limecc has had a bit of set up issues given the low engine which might have put him off a bit regarding SIBS but as we all know + & - to all craft.

69CMW i downsized from a 6m rib to my current boat and never looked back so much fun the wild camping is great although at 64 i need a couple of weeks to get over it, but i did know what to expect from the SIB having started with them hope to see you on one of the trips

just to mention welded PVC the HD series of boats has a very hard wearing fabric at 2/3rds the cost of hypalon i ve done a bit of testing on my fabric from the repair kit and i'm satisfied it will do all i ask of it.
gurnard has a 14 year old boat at the side of mine at 3 years old there's not a mark on it no sign of wear at all no glue issues so doing the maths for the money if it died today and he bought another it would have lasted 24 years before spending more than a hypalon boat. mercury/quicksilver offer a five year warranty on fabric and seams which gives confidence.