Would an auxiliary engine work for me?

[nicksharpe]

Hi all

I have an Excel 3.65m SIB which I push along with a 20hp Mercury 4-stroke. The maximum transom weight is 60kg, and the engine weighs 52kg.

One of next year's adventures is going to be a trip out to Ailsa Craig in the Firth of Clyde. To do that I'm going to need an auxiliary outboard.

I want something around 3 or 4hp, and has to be 4-stroke for fuel compatibility.

I think there's room to clamp an auxiliary at the side of the main engine, but the problem is that all these engines weigh obviously more than 8kg, so will exceed my maximum transom weight if installed there.

I'm quite happy to store an auxiliary engine inside the boat until I need it and then deploy it over the transom, but I don't fancy wrestling 52 kg of engine into the SIB in the middle of the sea should I get a mechanical.

So how to get around the tramsom weight issue?

All ideas gratefully accepted.

Nick

[beamishken]

Get a 3hp 2 stroke and carry some oil to mix if you need more than is in the engines integral tank the little yam malta and merc or mariners 3.3 are tiny and ideal to sit beside a main on a
small boat
Still going to be over transoms rating but for occasional use should be fine

[HDAV]

If your fuel is the cause of the issue then running the aux on same fuel prob a,y won’t help, and aux with integral tank and then 2mix is fine, run the aux every now and then to keep the fuel fresh and motor lubed.


8kg isn’t a lot even for a 2 stroke.....


8kg gets you this Yamaha M-18 Electric Drive Outboard but battery will weight much much more....

[Xk59D]

If you go on the Craig make sure you have a good hood, the amount of birds there is unreal, as soon as we went near it up they went wanting a feed. Needless to say they left their mark . It was only really bad on the outside of It, the main land side seemed okay and looks easy to beach there.

One thing, there is a sign on it saying private only or no anauthoried access or words to that effect on the railway line/boat launch so not sure how/who gives permission if required to go ashore. One of the other lads may know what the deal is and best place to go ashore. They didn't have a cafe so we just went round it and up to lamlash

A 2 stroke 3.3hp with integral tank is probably worth a shout. If anything happens you will have enough fuel to get to one of the marinas on the coast or a harbour at least.

Where are you thinking of leaving from?

Lamlash is worth a visit if you are leaving from largs as it will split the journey up for you. I would probably leave from troon in a sib and if amazing day pop up to lamlash for dinner.

[willk]

Originally Posted by nicksharpe

I'm quite happy to store an auxiliary engine inside the boat until I need it and then deploy it over the transom, but I don't fancy wrestling 52 kg of engine into the SIB in the middle of the sea should I get a mechanical.

But you wouldn't be - you'd be loosening up the main and sliding it to one side before deploying the Aux. As you wouldn't be planing with the associated forces, the few extra kgs isn't gonna matter.

FYI, I've gone from Alisa Craig to Girvan with only one engine and I didn't raise a sweat - they have a cracking new Shannon in there that is itching for a run out to the Craig...

[HDAV]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

A 2 stroke 3.3hp with integral tank is probably worth a shout. If anything happens you will have enough fuel to get to one of the marinas on the coast or a harbour at least.

Dependant how concerned about transome load but not seen many under 11kg and that was 2hp yam
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F263408491781

On a sib would you fix the aux static and use main as rudder or lift main and use aux for everything?

[Xk59D]

Personally I wouldn't care about the transom load if I was in that bit of water. Fire up the 3.3 and come home.

[nicksharpe]

Cheers all. Definitely leaving from Girvan as have family in Maybole, required for childcare.

As to the birds... Might buy one of these, only a few quid: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F292138070555

[nicksharpe]

And willk, I've seen that boat and I'm entirely confident of its ability.

[jambo]

Well others have covered some of your issues re aux. Just interested where you are going to launch from and also sea state can be greatly different at the Craig as from Girvan. If I can help you please contact.

[The Gurnard]

Hi Nick...prehaps I can answer some of the questions raised by your post, as I often like to visit the Craig by SIB during the spring when the birds are at their best.

The sign at the pier says .. “No unauthorised Pier access .. NLB personnel only.” Which I believe means exactly what it says. You cant use the pier.

However as it is an island in Scotland it is still covered by the Access code ..so you can land and enjoy the island in a responsible manner (but not by using the pier). I land on the stone shore near the north east end of the lighthouse. Some years the winter storms form a small sheltered bay when they sweep the stones round the point. It was not there the last time but I still find it the best area to land. Landing is wind and wave dependant though... pick the sheltered side. A tide flowing round the point can kick up a bit of a wave. At low tide the stones are green and very slippery..so take care walking on them if landing at low water.

There is a steep path to the very top of the island and its worth the effort. It starts behind the only surviving cottage It is exposed in places but safe enough. It passes by the ruined castle ..the fresh water well and very small but deep fresh water lochs near the top.

The birds are magnificent to watch as they peel off the sea cliffs on the western sides. Puffins ... Razon Bills .. Gannets and many other types nest on these sea cliffs. Its interesting as they all have their own areas. Example the Puffins tend to nest on the north west cliffs .. then the razor bills in the next section of the cliffs..the Gannets are then on the south west cliffs. Often you see birds struggling in the water..too full of fish to fly... hence the term ..”as greedy as a gannet”

Beware of shallow reefs on the north tip and also the south west side. The water is deep then the reefs appear and are further from the land than you may expect. That is one of the reasons you may want an Aux..they can easily be missed in a swell..and if your main is dumped on them in a swell trough ..you will be glad of the aux.

I found the best place for a SIB to launch is the big layby just to the south of Lendalfoot. Its the shortest distance and the hills behind the layby make a good transit point for the return trip. Its a sand / light shingle beach and there is a small track from the layby to the shore. Some 4x4 cars launch trailer boats by driving onto the beach but I prefer to shove the trailer ..or recover with a rope tied to the car to keep off the softish sand. Its a fair haul back at low tide but I still manage single handed with my 4.3 SIB on a trailer ... but its much easier with two folks. The layby has a huge monument to a Russian Ship..so its easy to find.

You would be foolish to go to the Craig in a rough sea ..so if you go on a good day..the extra 2kg or so weight over the transom limit with the 3.3 will not be a problem. The transom should hold the main OB in a big sea ..so on a calm sea will be a doddle. My opinion only .. from experience and its worked for me in practise.

I use a 3.3 mariner attached to my transom. Main is a 25 HP. It pushes the boat along nicely and I can either steer with the aux or use the main to steer. However I tend to lift the main to reduce the drag. The 3.3 happily shoves my boat along at 4-5 knots.

Enjoy the visit..its one of the most interesting islands in Scotland to land on and explore.

[jambo]

Gurnard's advice is well founded on his experience and as a local I haveno issue with it at all except if you do launch from Lendalfoot area watch the eddies and cross swells as they can be very confused at certain times depending on state of tide and wind especially at the turn. As he says its well worth it and a lovely cruise on a sunny day hope you enjoy. J

[nicksharpe]

Great info guys, thanks all. One question from all the really helpful comments: I get that the sea state can be different ten miles out than it is at the coast, but apart from picking a run of nice days and going at the end of that, is there any other way to tell what I might be in for?

Only real reason I ask is because I want to take the Mrs as crew and if she's terrified it's going to ruin it for both of us!

[The Gurnard]

Yup agreed Jambo ..

however if its rough at Lendalfoot..I would advise Nick ..dont even consider going to the Craig in a SIB that day. Go only on a good sea state day.. by that I mean nothing greater than light winds for the whole day.

For fullness ... I guess I should also add that the internal tank of a small two stroke will NOT get a SIB back from the Ailsa Craig.

My mariner 3.3HP Aux will run for between half an hour and three quarters of an hour before its empty. I used to go to the Ailsa Craig in a small displacement boat powered with a 4HP Tohatsu four stroke outboard..it takes approx two hours to cross the nine or so miles at the displacement speeds of these size of OBs ...due to the tides and light winds..in stronger winds..it could take forever.

So make sure you carry some two stroke oil so you can mix up more fuel if using the small two stroke route. It weights 13Kg so not much over the transom limits.

Last time I was there the MV Glorious..the local tour boat ..was towing a RIB back. It had problems either with engine or hitting the reef. It does happen.. so its always worth having that back up plan.

I often go with Kayakers Nick..in a good day its no problem what so ever ..but only your experience counts ..not our experience ..if that makes sense?

If you are not experienced with open sea crossings in your boat ..go in company with other boaters who have the experience.. a great place to get that is on the RIBNET Scottish SIB outings ..this year we are trying to go round Arran from Largs

[jambo]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

Yup agreed Jambo ..



however if its rough at Lendalfoot..I would advise Nick ..dont even consider going to the Craig in a SIB that day. Go only on a good sea state day.. by that I mean nothing greater than light winds for the whole day.



For fullness ... I guess I should also add that the internal tank of a small two stroke will NOT get a SIB back from the Ailsa Craig.



My mariner 3.3HP Aux will run for between half an hour and three quarters of an hour before its empty. I used to go to the Ailsa Craig in a small displacement boat powered with a 4HP Tohatsu four stroke outboard..it takes approx two hours to cross the nine or so miles at the displacement speeds of these size of OBs ...due to the tides and light winds..in stronger winds..it could take forever.



So make sure you carry some two stroke oil so you can mix up more fuel if using the small two stroke route. It weights 13Kg so not much over the transom limits.



Last time I was there the MV Glorious..the local tour boat ..was towing a RIB back. It had problems either with engine or hitting the reef. It does happen.. so its always worth having that back up plan.



I often go with Kayakers Nick..in a good day its no problem what so ever ..but only your experience counts ..not our experience ..if that makes sense?



If you are not experienced with open sea crossings in your boat ..go in company with other boaters who have the experience.. a great place to get that is on the RIBNET Scottish SIB outings ..this year we are trying to go round Arran from Largs

With you all the way Donnie. People forget it's the Atlantic that rolls in to the Craig!!

[nicksharpe]

Gurnard, you'd replied so quickly the app didn't even tell me you'd done it.

Keeping an eye on the SIB outing, would love to come but don't want to have to drop out at the last minute like last year because of childcare nonsense. It's exactly the kind of thing I want to be doing though.

While we're here, just booked 4 nights in Mull with the family in March. Staffa presumably possible from the Ulva ferry slipway?

[jeffstevens763@g]

Originally Posted by nicksharpe

Hi all

I have an Excel 3.65m SIB which I push along with a 20hp Mercury 4-stroke. The maximum transom weight is 60kg, and the engine weighs 52kg.

One of next year's adventures is going to be a trip out to Ailsa Craig in the Firth of Clyde. To do that I'm going to need an auxiliary outboard.

I want something around 3 or 4hp, and has to be 4-stroke for fuel compatibility.

I think there's room to clamp an auxiliary at the side of the main engine, but the problem is that all these engines weigh obviously more than 8kg, so will exceed my maximum transom weight if installed there.

I'm quite happy to store an auxiliary engine inside the boat until I need it and then deploy it over the transom, but I don't fancy wrestling 52 kg of engine into the SIB in the middle of the sea should I get a mechanical.

So how to get around the tramsom weight issue?

All ideas gratefully accepted.

Nick

Nick
Not offering any advice on the trip other that what's been said, but re the Aux a tohatsue 3.5 4 stroke comes in at 18.4 kg you would only be 5 kg over a 2 smoke personally I would go with one but I would consider two stays from the transom to the floor to beef up a bit.
The benifitt for me is no fuel mixing which could be a few times if the conditions ruff up a bit, compatible connections would be needed to use the main tank or a t piece leaving the Aux off till needed when the integral tank is empty. Filling the integral tank could be a pain in the ruff if that's the way you go. IMO of course.

Just noticed your on a merc 19 kg for the 3.5 hp don't know about the mercs but my Suzuki 4 had an main tank connection so an easy change over.

[The Gurnard]

Hi again Nick.. as long as folks know on the day..there is no great problem if you cant manage. Only reason we need to know .. is so we don’t wait thinking others are coming and they don’t.

Another date you or anyone else may be interested in is the weekend of 20th May. Myself and three other SIBS (two are other member of this forum ) are leaving Oban on the evening of Thursday 17th of May and spending three days going round Mull ..weather dependant obviously but we will go somewhere as one guy is coming up from the south. Anyone is welcome to come join in.

Yup Staffa can be done from Ulva ..or from Fidden Campsite on the Ross of Mull. Going round Iona is very worth while..better value than Staffa in my opinion. So I would base myself at Fidden if it was me. Everyone has their own preferences though.

In principle I agree with Jeff on a small four stroke for an Aux.. but It would not be better for me. I keep my Aux on the transom beside the main OB..the narrow cowl of the Aux two stroke does not interfere with the main's turning radius.. a 4 stroke is wider and would restrict the mains movement ..something to keep in mind.

[Highland Haggis]

Hi nick HH here I am working with the gurnard on the 2018 sib outing will post more information soon about trip if you would like to come out more often I’am sure we could meet up for weekend trips before you feel you could manage on your own don’t mean to insulate you but don’t know how much experience you have on your own

[jeffstevens763@g]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

Hi again Nick.. as long as folks know on the day..there is no great problem if you cant manage. Only reason we need to know .. is so we don’t wait thinking others are coming and they don’t.

Another date you or anyone else may be interested in is the weekend of 20th May. Myself and three other SIBS (two are other member of this forum ) are leaving Oban on the evening of Thursday 17th of May and spending three days going round Mull ..weather dependant obviously but we will go somewhere as one guy is coming up from the south. Anyone is welcome to come join in.

Yup Staffa can be done from Ulva ..or from Fidden Campsite on the Ross of Mull. Going round Iona is very worth while..better value than Staffa in my opinion. So I would base myself at Fidden if it was me. Everyone has their own preferences though.

In principle I agree with Jeff on a small four stroke for an Aux.. but It would not be better for me. I keep my Aux on the transom beside the main OB..the narrow cowl of the Aux two stroke does not interfere with the main's turning radius.. a 4 stroke is wider and would restrict the mains movement ..something to keep in mind.

a good point from gurnard re room you would have to measure up but but you could make an over bracket for the Aux engine meaning over the transom bolted in place to get it closer to the tube to give room when using the main engine so in use main engine up slack Aux engine clamps and slide toward the main engine to give steerage room for the Aux.
when i had my rib i steered with the main leaving the Aux fixed 6m boat 4hp engine short shaft 4-5 knots perfect conditions not a get me home but keep me out of trouble on that boat. pics to give you an idea without A frame even more room.