Would you rely on these for an emergency?

[Stigomery]

[Searider]

No. Not at all.

[Poly]

Rely on them? NO
Carry as a last resort? Possibly (they are WELL out of date though).

I think "official" advice is no longer to carry time expired pyros. I disposed of some made in 2005 earlier this year.

What other means do you have for signalling distress?

[Stigomery]

The expiry has rubbed off as you can see. Never opened. Never used.

I got them for a time when I climbed remote mountains and (thankfully) never had call to use them.

I have mobile phone and handheld VHF with DSC.

[willk]

I've used these (in a test fire situation). They are very bright and fire to a reasonable height. However the burn time is a meagre couple of seconds. I would rate them as fairly useless in daytime unless someone was actively looking for you (e.g. you went overboard in a bit of a swell and your crew were searching for you). At night maybe of more use but again - fairly poor compared to the alternatives.

My weapons of choice are the GPS equipped Personal Locator Beacon and a waterproof torch. Always in my pocket when afloat.

[treerat]

It'll depend where you are......

Around here no one will see them if (and I suspect they will) fire as the cliffs are too high and the coast not populated.

Set them off on a Sunday afternoon in the Solent and everyman and their dog will see them.

So would I use them - yes, would I rely on them being my only means of calling for hope, nope.

I've set off some very old flares during demos and you'd be surprised how many fired. So long as they are stored ok they'll probably go - oldest was round a 20 year old smoke.

I'd take these out and check for corrosion, grease and put back in.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Stigomery

The expiry has rubbed off as you can see. Never opened. Never used.

I can't remember how long they lasted - but I think it was either 3 or 5 yrs from manufacture! You can probably assume the shelf life is conservative... but that conservative? As I understand it there are potentially two main issues with TEP "rockets" (1) the colour fades - so they look more pink than red (better than nothing!); (2) the "oomph" fades from the rocket so it comes back down on you still burning ( ). FWIW the test conditions for shelf life were almost certainly not harsh enough to rub the date off!

I have mobile phone and handheld VHF with DSC.

OK so you have a good way (and a backup) to contact the CG. BUT you don't have any way to visually alert the yacht (who has has radio off to save power!) or the rib (who's engine is so loud he can't hear the radio) that is only 1 mile away and you can clearly see, and can be with you in a few minutes whilst the CG are still going through the launch procedure!

And of course there are areas (particularly close to cliffs / headlands where people might be around to see you) that are VHF (and probably cell tower) blackspots.

You've also no way to guide the helo / lifeboat to you in a crowded area, or at night when you've been adrift in big waves in the dark for three hours.

Flares are annoyingly expensive. PLBs are getting cheaper - but even if you go that way some sort of visual signal is helpful to both attract attention and guide rescuers to you.

[jwalker]

What willk said.


I had some a few years older than yours and set them off at home, they did little more than shoot a few feet and sizzle for couple of seconds. Check em away.

[paintman]

I've used both the civilian and military versions of them. Only real difference was that the metal tube with the military one stayed attached to the pen so the powers-that-be decided it was a barrel so they are classed as a firearm & can't be sold to the general public.
Main problem with them is that they have a short burn time & not easy to spot where they've come from.
Normal red or orange smoke flares have a decent burn time & generate lots of smoke so are easily seen and pin-pointable.
Whilst they may seem expensive & the vast majority will never be used in anger, when the need arises you'll be glad you spent the money.

[Stigomery]

Sorry to be a pain, but does anyone have a link to the right type of flare and/or other emergency back up that won't break the bank. I'm not yet ready to fork out £150+ on a PLB.

Thanks.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Stigomery

Sorry to be a pain, but does anyone have a link to the right type of flare and/or other emergency back up that won't break the bank. I'm not yet ready to fork out £150+ on a PLB.

Thanks.

Where do you intend to boat? The DSC Handheld is an awesome piece of kit and perfectly adequate IMO for areas with good coastguard VHF coverage. The phone (in a waterproof case) is the backup. You'll need to have the handheld securely clipped to you for it to be a plan.

Outside of the above, I really only rate the PLB for use in remote/unfrequented waters. I'd pass on the other options and save for a PLB. They can be carried when hill walking, holidaying, etc. so aren't a one trick pony like flares are.

[Stigomery]

Thanks willk!

Sounds like a plan to me. We'll be using no more than a mile or two off shore around the Norfolk/Suffolk/Essex coast line initially. Then the lake district and hopefully along the Devon/Cornish coast in the not too distant future.

[paintman]

Plenty of online chandlers sell handheld flares. Main issue is the postage cost as they are hazardous goods.
Couple of examples:
https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/item/98...ividual-flares
Flares Gael Force Marine
Cheapest way is to go to a chandlers & buy there.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by willk

I'd pass on the other options and save for a PLB. They can be carried when hill walking, holidaying, etc. so aren't a one trick pony like flares are.

And you can take on flights and ferries without offending anyone!

Originally Posted by Stigomery

Sounds like a plan to me. We'll be using no more than a mile or two off shore around the Norfolk/Suffolk/Essex coast line initially. Then the lake district and hopefully along the Devon/Cornish coast in the not too distant future.

Local people might be better able to comment, but my understanding is that in the Lake District there is SOME CG Ch16 reception on Windermere, but perhaps not on the smaller lakes. Other users are less likely to have VHF (and certainly DSC). Beware if you ever make it as far as Loch Lomond there is no official VHF coverage on the loch.

IMHO you want some way of attracting attention if your VHF/Phone have no signal. In sight of "shore" Handheld Red flares are generally considered adequate for that. To get better coverage parachute flares would help - but they are more expensive and can only be used for attracting attention (not for pinpointing your position), and have shelf life issues as with all pyrotechnics.

The second part of the problem is having alerted a rescuer helping someone to find you during a search. A very bright torch or strobe might be enough. SPR on here sells a small laser flare designed for the purpose. There are two different makes of electronic flare which serve this purpose AND are also designed as a substitute for initial distress alerting (c. £90 though).

Originally Posted by paintman

Plenty of online chandlers sell handheld flares. Main issue is the postage cost as they are hazardous goods.
Couple of examples:
https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/item/98...ividual-flares
Flares Gael Force Marine
Cheapest way is to go to a chandlers & buy there.

I think those are relatively expensive? I am sure I bought a pair of h/helds for £15ish last year at my local chandler.

Of course perhaps the biggest risk is you are no longer on your boat (or are on its upturned hull) - "personal" flares you can put in your pocket are attractive for that - like the Ikaros Day/Night - but not cheap.

Tucked in the bottom of my safety kit I have a big orange plastic sheet (with black square and circle) - it came with some boat safety stuff I bought a while ago (I believe it is a US "thing"). Together with a very bright torch with a strobe more I'd be comfortable enough without any flares, and look towards a PLB for remote areas with little company.

[Tedskee]

Originally Posted by Stigomery

Sorry to be a pain, but does anyone have a link to the right type of flare and/or other emergency back up that won't break the bank. I'm not yet ready to fork out £150+ on a PLB.

Thanks.

Those flares were originally designed for the Military as Signal Flares, they should not be classed as Distress Flares, only to be used to pin point when a search is already in motion. There was a cut across a few decades ago from Mil to Civilian and I used to carry a pack whilst dinghy sailing as they would fit in a pocket. But as already stated only burn for a few seconds and can also be mistaken for fireworks.

Regarding cost, if anyone was to be in the unfortunate situation where they needed help, I imagine at that point in time they would spend anything to be seen. With that in mind and dependent where you sail, although hard, try not to save money buying a substandard device, whether it be a Radio or Flares, because if needed it needs to work.

[boristhebold]

No I would not, I would get rid off the proper way as soon as possible. If money is an issue I would scrimp and save and go hand in hand to family and see if I could get enouth cash on loan to buy a proper flare pack and a cheap but usable PLB.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Poly

IMHO you want some way of attracting attention if your VHF/Phone have no signal. In sight of "shore" Handheld Red flares are generally considered adequate for that. To get better coverage parachute flares would help - but they are more expensive and can only be used for attracting attention (not for pinpointing your position), and have shelf life issues as with all pyrotechnics.
.

I used to carry a "light" and a "smoke" in the SIB when on the sea. I didn't have much faith in them and thought of them as a way to guide a rescuer toward me. Paras are fine obviously. If the OPs SIB breaks down on a freshwater lake in the UK, it will quickly drift/be rowed ashore - no rescue needed. If the OP falls out of it - I doubt he'll have found room in his pockets for parachute flares...

[Stevie J]

Standard coding flare kit - £90

4 year life

2 X 60 second Orange hand smokes.
2 X 60 second Red 15,000 candela hand flares.
2 X 40 second Red 30,000 candela parachute flares that fire to 300 metres. Up to 30 Miles visibility

Pains Wessex Coastal Flare Pack - 2016 stock! - Marine Warehouse Ltd

[Poly]

Originally Posted by willk

If the OPs SIB breaks down on a freshwater lake in the UK, it will quickly drift/be rowed ashore - no rescue needed. If the OP falls out of it - I doubt he'll have found room in his pockets for parachute flares...

Fair point.

Originally Posted by Tedskee

Regarding cost, if anyone was to be in the unfortunate situation where they needed help, I imagine at that point in time they would spend anything to be seen.

Originally Posted by borristhebold

If money is an issue I would scrimp and save and go hand in hand to family and see if I could get enouth cash on loan to buy a proper flare pack and a cheap but usable PLB.

Whilst I appreciate the issue you are both suggesting, here the OP is in a SIB and a little balance might be useful - there is a limit it how much kit he can practically carry, just as with Seakayakers, canoeists, paddleboarders, windsurfers, kitesurfers, etc who are probably all going out in the sort of areas and conditions the OP is likely to be out in and I'd guess carrying much less kit.

When your engine fails at sea the upgrade seems cheap. When you get caught out in bad weather a bigger boat seems sensible. When your anchor slips a bigger one seems like a bargain investment. When you curtail a trip because of concerns about fuel the cost of spare tank suddenly seems trivial etc. But if we all applied that logic to its ultimate conclusion we would never actually go out. None of us have infinite budget and whilst safety kit is needed things that prevent a problem (like training or engine servicing) might be better ways of spending money than a "4th" or "5th" contingency for distress calling!

[MustRib]

Originally Posted by willk

I'd pass on the other options and save for a PLB.

Absolutely

Originally Posted by Tedskee

Regarding cost, if anyone was to be in the unfortunate situation where they needed help, I imagine at that point in time they would spend anything to be seen. With that in mind and dependent where you sail, although hard, try not to save money buying a substandard device, whether it be a Radio or Flares, because if needed it needs to work.

Absolutely

A PLB works out at around £40 a year for some peace of mind. Think of it that way rather than as a large lump sum.
Invest in the best safety kit you can. Keep your flares in date.
As Poly said, invest in some quality training as well.
Your confidence will get a boost and you will enjoy being on the water more.
Think through what would happen in an emergency situation,
if you lost one of the ways you were counting on using to call for help.
Do you have a backup plan ...?
Think about what devices you will use and how you will attach them to yourself in case you part company with the boat.
Understood its a SIB and not a RIB, but if you are intending heading out along the coast,
in some less than populous areas, consider a PLB as a priority.