Zodiac MkII vs. Bombard C3?

headdamage · 22 September 2011, 22:47

Which would be the better boat for beach launching and use in open water off shore... A 1979 Zodiac MkII or a 1992 Bombard C3? The motor would be a 1992 Johnson 30hp short leg tiller model. Thanks.

captnjack · 22 September 2011, 23:08

Are they both PVC boats? Fabric is good shape on both?

The Bombard has a wood keel and slightly deeper V. The Zodiac an inflated keel. At least I think that era MkII should have an inflatable keel. They have since split off into Grand Raid, Classic and Futura hulls.

1979 is pretty old esp for a PVC boat.

In practice I don't think you'll notice much difference.

headdamage · 23 September 2011, 00:02

I think the C3 is PVC from looking at it. The MKII is Hypalon with the inflateable keel. Both have aluminum floors. I think the Mk2 is the better quality boat but the wooden keel on the C3 seems like it might be better in rough water, I've never used either so I'm not sure.

captnjack · 23 September 2011, 00:24

I had a C3. The limits of both boats in "rough water" won't be the keel type, it'll be you.

Given the much older age of the Zodiac, but the fact that's its hypalon kinda evens out with the much newer PVC Bombard in my opinion.

I think the zodiac will be slightly easier to assemble on the beach, and it will be lighter. The wooden keel of the Bombard weighs maybe 8kg. Mine had some aluminum plates as reinforcement so I don't exactly know how heavy it would be without those. The inflatable keel weighs basically nothing. The wood keel does not do as much as you'd think since in modestly rough water the fabric hull flexes and becomes a flatter surface that the wave will "slam" against keel or no keel.

I would consider condition of the fabric and transom condition vastly more important decision points than hard vs inflated keel. Or brand for that matter, Bombards are made by Zodiac anyway.

headdamage · 23 September 2011, 00:54

Well I guess I'll figure it out as due to a funny situation I've ended up owning both of these boats now. I bought the Mk2 a couple of weeks ago and I've been looking for a motor for it. Today I found a motor and for less than the motor should have cost me it also cam with the C3. I have to figure out which one to keep, of course the wife likes the Mk2 because of the color

The weather is going to be nice this weekend so I'll try to take them both out and see what's what

The Mk2

The C3

captnjack · 23 September 2011, 01:48

The Zodiac all the way. Although I hope that silly pendant on the bow comes off.

prairie tuber · 23 September 2011, 07:29

Congratulations on the double! Of course this means you now have to get another outboard.

Both boats look to be in pretty good shape. It would be interesting to hear your impressions of these boats based on head to head comparisons.

headdamage · 23 September 2011, 09:09

I'll try to test the motor on the stand today and as long as it seems ok I'll try to take both boats out for a spin this weekend. The 1992 C3 came with a 1992 Johnson 30hp and launch wheels for the same price as I paid for the 1979 Mk2... I also still have my old 1969 MkI and 1974 Evinrude 15hp. One day not enough boat, the next I up to my ass in boats and now a long cold Canadian winter is closing in fast, perhaps I can turn one in to a skidoo

headdamage · 25 September 2011, 04:27

Set the C3 up today, the wooden keel and alum floor is a bit of a pita to assemble but seems like a good setup once it's together. Over all the C3 doesn't seem to have the same feel of quality that the older Mk2 has though I think it is still good. I'm going to sell the C3 off or failing a sale I might use it as project to try and make a DIY RIB.

TheMadMariner · 25 September 2011, 14:37

Just wondering about this 'wooden' keel; are these just the horizontal floorboards in front of the boat? Or are this boards pressed between the rubber hull and inflatable keel? By doings so, creating a more rigid RIB-like hull.
Just wondering, because I have got a construction just like that in my 5 metre SIB.

headdamage · 25 September 2011, 16:49

The wooden keel is in three sections that lock together with the alum floor to make a rigid keel, the bottom of the boat is still soft though except for right along the center line of the keel. The wooden keel replaces the inflatable keel in a regular SIB.

Here is a photo of the keel on it's side:

TheMadMariner · 25 September 2011, 17:16

Thank you for your fast and clear explanation, I have never seen a design like that, and find it rather interesting. I can imagine it's pretty difficult to assemble.

I've got a semi-rigid designed hull Sib myself, made by DSB.
It has an inflatable keel like most SIB's, but as an extra, consists of two rubber-coated boards that you lock to the transom and are positioned under the inflatable keel. Then you just roll back the keel and assemble the floorboards as in any other SIB. As you inflate the boat, the rubber-boards get pressed to the hypalon hull and by doing so reinforce the V-shape and make it the hull more rigid at this point.

I haven't got a picture to show you, but as soon as I take it apart for maintenance I'll upload some shots.

headdamage · 25 September 2011, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMadMariner

It has an inflatable keel like most SIB's, but as an extra, consists of two rubber-coated boards that you lock to the transom and are positioned under the inflatable keel. Then you just roll back the keel and assemble the floorboards as in any other SIB. As you inflate the boat, the rubber-boards get pressed to the hypalon hull and by doing so reinforce the V-shape and make it the hull more rigid at this point.

That sounds like a good system... I'd like to see photos of it when you get a chance

headdamage · 26 September 2011, 00:14

Had a really good look at the MkII GT today. It is in good shape overall but the thrust board will need reattaching soon, not much of the keel tube is attached to the bottom anymore, and there are a few small warn spots that could use a patch. All items that can be fixed before next year.

Setting up the MkII is much easier than the C3. The intercommunicating valves are very nice to use compared to the three Boston valves on the C3, you only have to hook the pump up to one side or the other of the MkII and the whole boat is inflated to an even pressure. Each of the three valves on the C3 have to be pumped and it is a bit tricky to get the pressures even. Also the floor of the MkII is easy to install. The C3 flour is of the same basic design but the wooden keel makes it more difficult to set up.

I like the C3 but I'm used to the layout of the MkII because I've had a MkI for over 35 years and the wooden keel just might be too much of a pita for me, I'll be packing the boat down between uses and not putting it on a trailer.

Was going to put them on the water today but the wind has been blowing up to 60kph so that didn't seem like a good idea for a first time use of used boats and motor

headdamage · 26 September 2011, 00:39

I couldn't find this on the web but I found a hard copy:

captnjack · 26 September 2011, 01:00

Where are you located in Canada headdamage? The C3 is a good boat, I would sell it vs. canabalizing it for a DIY RIB. If you are close to Washington state maybe I can find you a buyer? Mine was a good dive boat.

prairie tuber · 26 September 2011, 05:11

HD,

Do you have plans to trailer the boat? If so, you might want to look at the RNLI's solution to the loose thrust boards (search "bottle screw" in this forum). The other benefit of the inflatable keel over the wooden keel would be if you plan on using the boat on rivers with rapids.

headdamage · 26 September 2011, 06:07

No I will mostly be packing the boat down for transport not using a trailer. I like the bottle screw type idea and had considered it for my old MkI at one time due to the wooden floor having some issues which I have since fixed.

For the MkII I really like the alum floor so I think I'll just have the thrust board fixed unless there is a good alternative to the trust board that still uses the original floor. Could I use something like the bottle screw between the alum floor and a new triangular bow section?

bigscott · 26 September 2011, 21:00

Given the choice I would go for the C3. I had a mkII and the inflatable keel gave me endless headaches keeping it air tight. Am I right in saying the C3 has a deeper keel than the mkII? if so the ride should be a more comfortable

headdamage · 27 September 2011, 03:32

Took the MkII out on the water today, it was great! Much nicer than the MkI in chop. Tried the 15hp Evinrude on it first for a test run, worked ok but a bit slow at 17kph WOT and it has trouble getting on plane when going with the waves.

Then I put the 30hp Johnson on and wow! The even with 500lbs in the boat it took of like a shot and would hold 34kph @ WOT. The 30hp is at the limit of what I would want to hand launch due to weight so I'm very happy it has enough power for the boat.

One thing I'm not sure about is the floor. When I got in some 2 to 3 foot waves the boat was bending quite a bit at the joint of the floor one panel back from the thrust board. The stringers hold the rear three panels together but there is nothing to hold this joint, am I missing a short stringer or something? See the below photo of the section.

15hp

30hp

The back of the motor cover says 25 but the motor is a 30hp.