Greetings! How to get my hours up - Scotland

fop · 14 July 2011, 16:50

Hello Ribnet people.

I did my RYA2 a few weeks ago. Don't think I want to buy a boat just yet. I had hoped that I could hire boats, specifically RIB's but this doesn't seem possible here. So how do I get some miles in? I thought about doing Safety Boat at the local club for more experience (if I learn to sail a bit). Happy to go halfers on fuel with anyone, but maybe I shouldn't hang about the docks with a couple of hundred quid in my pocket looking for action

Poly · 14 July 2011, 17:11

Safety boat at a local club might be a way to get hours up but it won't get you a lot of real experience, except (and even then not always) in recovering capsized dinghies and towing boats. Much of the time can be spend at tick over bobbing around. So you won't get much experience of passage planning, cruising, etc. At some clubs you won't even do much high speed stuff (small local areas), and may not even go out in particularly rough conditions. Depending on the size and organisation of the club they may also want a safety boat ticket (especially if you are not familiar with sailing dinghies), and you may find there is a "heirarchy" where a new, non-sailing person wanting to play with their powerboats will be viewed with suspicion. Of course that is not always the case.

There are some places in Scotland you can hire RIBs but they won't be cheap and a PB2 with no other experience might(?) ring alarm bells.

donald463 · 14 July 2011, 17:13

Where are you?

fop · 14 July 2011, 18:15

Edinburgh. Happy to travel a bit though.

Polwart, thanks. Safety Boat maybe not ideal then, though they (Port Edgar) may put you through the SB course if you show commitment.

Where can you hire RIB's? My Google skills are defeating me on this one.
Don't mind being escorted, may even prefer it.

Poly · 14 July 2011, 19:09

What do you want experience of? Are you trying to do something specific (e.g. get hours for a qualification, get experience cruising long distances, get enough experience to decide what to buy etc).

Quote:

Where can you hire RIB's? My Google skills are defeating me on this one.

Redbay RIB charter West Coast Scotland skippered and bareboat -- 11m Redbay based in Craobh Haven

Scottish Rib Charter -- based in Largs not sure what their current boat is.

Markhor Charter | Yacht Charter Guide -- based at port edgar not sure if they are still going

Quote:

Don't mind being escorted, may even prefer it.

I don't think anyone does a kind of "flotilla holiday" type approach. If you have enough money you can probably go to any of the commercial rib operators and/or schools and pay for a day with one of their instructors and boats. But bear in mind that that instructor/boat could be earning money from maybe 3 students on a PB2 course so expect to pay accordingly!

e.g. Someone like the people who post on here as SeaSkills (Ian) or Speedy (Greg) who run Seaskills (Oban and North Berwick?) and Seaforce (Glasgow) respectively.

Whilst I think these are both great ways to get experience and either could work out cheaper than owning a significant rib that doesn't get used much, if the idea is just to get afloat as much as possible then a small sib might be the most affordable route. You may of course find someone here willing to let you use their boat/crew for them - but I wouldn't assume that people will be rushing to meet strangers on the internet!

GJ0KYZ · 14 July 2011, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by fop

Where can you hire RIB's? My Google skills are defeating me on this one.

You can hire monster-sized ribs from Madera in Holland:

Madera Ribs - Home

Poly · 14 July 2011, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJ0KYZ

You can hire monster-sized ribs from Madera in Holland:

Madera Ribs - Home

Certainly if he is prepared to travel a bit further then he could rent from Solent Rib Charter or a few people in the South West (google plymouth bare boat rib charter or something similar) and make a weekend of it. Indeed if you've got enough money they'll even deliver the boat to where you want it, or you can tow it their yourself.

Max... · 14 July 2011, 19:32

Polwart make a great point - for £1k to £2k you can easily find a decent SIB and engine - go out in that as much as you can starting with flat seas/fine days and staying close to shore and you will learn so much. As you build in confidence progress to use it in more choppy water. A small boat really teaches you to read the waves and respect for the sea as well as many of the boat handling skills that apply to a larger vessel.

lizardland · 14 July 2011, 23:17

I was in the same sort of position this time last year. I don't think you'd be long in running up a grand or two in bare boat charters, I got an SR4 for £1500 which to me seems a better spend. Small enough that launching and recovering on your own is easy, robust enough to take a good range of conditions... it's been a brilliant boat for learning on. It's needed a few jobs doing and it's needed kitted out with equipment and fittings which is all part of the experience. I wasn't thinking of it as the boat I wanted when I got it, just a temporary measure to do a job however I'll be really sad when it's time to swap it for something bigger as I've grown quite attached to it. I might not make my money back on it but I doubt it will be far off and it's worth it for what I taught myself with it.

I figured I needed to bite the bullet and get something while it was all still fresh in my mind rather than cadging days out or charters or whatever. If it's there on your driveway then you'll use it, nipping out after work and the like that you couldn't really do on someone else's boat. It was an expensive hit but the rewards are worth it. Doing your first real passage in your own boat is something you won't forget.

RAD · 15 July 2011, 08:37

PB2 only "allows" you to drive up to 10mtr rib.

9D280 · 15 July 2011, 10:19

I'll second the hire / buy comments. Dinghy rescue to put it in perspective I have spent days with a 40 on the transom & used about 2 litres of fuel......

Also if you are toying with joining a club, the ones that jump to mind with powerboat sections near you are Crammond, Elie (SPR on here is involved there - search for "Forth cruise" in the cruises section) and Dalgetty bay (MDT / Chrishowden from memory) and I think Grangemouth, although I'm not aware of any Ribnetters there.

fop · 15 July 2011, 11:36

Thanks for all the replies. Much to think about. I massively enjoyed the PB2 course, landing on Inchcolm and Inchkeith was great and would like to do more of the same, so day cruising really.

As said before, it won't take long to rack up a few grand on hire, though storage is a problem if I bought a boat. I do have a drive, but it's tandem, and I think a boat would last about a week in the centre of town before it got nicked.

What is the security like at any of the Forth clubs, is there much theft reported?

Anyway, got a monster 15HP Jeanneau booked for a day on Loch Lomond next week. It's a start! Have you seen the weather - 28 degrees there next week!

Might have to save that monster 11m RIB for a special occasion at a grand a day....

Poly · 15 July 2011, 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAD

PB2 only "allows" you to drive up to 10mtr rib.

That's misleading.

Firstly PB2 doesn't "allow" you to do anything. Secondly I think you are confusing it with an ICC issued on the basis of a PB2. The PB2 certificate itself states "vessels up to 24m in length" and it can even be commercially endorsed and used this way. There is no legal requirement for a PB2 on a bareboat charter although it is unlikely that the owners (or their insurers) will be happy unless you have at least this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fop

Thanks for all the replies. Much to think about. I massively enjoyed the PB2 course, landing on Inchcolm and Inchkeith was great and would like to do more of the same, so day cruising really.

OK well you are definitely not going to get that sort of experience watching dinghies sail round in circles. The islands are fun, although you'll probably get bored if you go every weekend.

Quote:

As said before, it won't take long to rack up a few grand on hire, though storage is a problem if I bought a boat.

Indeed, but its also quite possible to spend a grand on storing, insuring and maintaining even a relatively small rib if you are not careful - without even using it! So before you rush out to buy something make sure you know how much you will actually use it. There are many fair weather sailors on here who would not want to calculate the true cost per day on the water! If you have any friends who might enjoy it and share the cost charter needn't be the expensive option: a charter trip is more likely to be planned and committed in advance, more likely to be a larger boat so more flexible on distance and weather, more likely to get used to the max whilst on hire rather than an hour once a month!

Quote:

What is the security like at any of the Forth clubs, is there much theft reported?

Security itself is pretty lax in general - but there doesn't seem to be a significant theft or vandalism issue. Of course knowing that your boat is the exception won't help if someone runs a knife down the tubes or nicks the engine so make sure it is insured (£100-200 p.a. for a small low value boat). Storage costs vary, the clubs might be cheapest but it will generally be expected you participate in club activities not just use it as a marina - this suits some people but not others. If you shop around and don't mind travelling to your boat then you can probably store a 4m boat outdoors for less than £150 pa. Depending on how you pay storage in a shed at Port Edgar could cost you nearer £400-600 pa.

The cheapest option in many regards is a SIB - but if you will be a regular user it can be inconvenient to inflate and deflate it every trip - so you may still end up paying storage, etc.

SPR · 16 July 2011, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by fop

Hello Ribnet people.

I did my RYA2 a few weeks ago. Don't think I want to buy a boat just yet. I had hoped that I could hire boats, specifically RIB's but this doesn't seem possible here. So how do I get some miles in? I thought about doing Safety Boat at the local club for more experience (if I learn to sail a bit). Happy to go halfers on fuel with anyone, but maybe I shouldn't hang about the docks with a couple of hundred quid in my pocket looking for action

We run a powerboat section at Elie & Earlsferry Sailing Club, we encourage people to come down and play with us.

www.eesc.org.uk, we are about 40 mins away from Edinburgh. We now a RYA teaching establishment and run courses up to safety boat. http://www.powerboatcourses.co.uk

if you want to see the club let me know , membership is only £58 a year!

regards

Scott

MeMe · 16 July 2011, 00:34

Check out the RIB Cruise section, get chatting to a few folk, offer to to bring lunch, pay for fuel, pick other up along the route to the rally point, for a berth and chance to do some helming.......just a thought.

fop · 19 July 2011, 12:11

As an update, Scottish Rib Charter called to say they no longer do bareboat for insurance reasons. Markhor Charter at Port Edgar seem to be defunct. So the only rib you can hire bareboat in Scotland with an RYA2 is that 600hp 11m Redbay! Pity there are no boat share clubs like down south.

SPR, thanks for the contact. Will pop over for a look.

Poly · 19 July 2011, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by fop

...so the only rib you can hire bareboat in Scotland with an RYA2 is that 600hp 11m Redbay! Pity there are no boat share clubs like down south.

time to start saving then!

Not a rib but here's another option (not very local I am afraid): Boat Hire Ardnamurchan Self Drive - West Coast of Scotland - Loch Sunart Ardnamurchan: New Pioner Boats

Or at displacement speeds:
Hire Rates for Motor Boat Hire on Loch Goil Argyll Scotland

To be honest the boat share clubs aren't an ultra-cheap way to get into boating. They are a slightly more economical way to own/use a very nice boat - but the fees can be similar to the purchase cost of an entry level used rib - every year. That combined with our less predictable weather makes this an idea which (I think) would only be viable with larger cabin type boats in Scotland.

sirewan · 19 July 2011, 21:02

Fop im also in Edinburgh,got a 6.1m Humber arriving monday, got my rya intermediate this wkend at Port Edgar, I also need to build up hours as I want to get my advanced ticket in December. Could help us both if your up for putting up some of the fuel costs?
Ewan

jwalker · 19 July 2011, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirewan

Fop im also in Edinburgh,got a 6.1m Humber arriving monday, got my rya intermediate this wkend at Port Edgar, I also need to build up hours as I want to get my advanced ticket in December. Could help us both if your up for putting up some of the fuel costs?
Ewan

Fop, that sounds a good offer and may be your best bet. If you want to become properly proficient you will need lots of helming hours, read LOTS of hours. Also, since you're in the Firth of Forth area, the Forth can become seriously bumpy and be very challenging. It also doesn't have many small sheltered areas which will keep you satisfied for long, you'll want to travel so will be open to the mass of tidal water filling and emptying constantly, the swell which runs in from the North Sea at the east and the contrary, opposing westerly and southwesterly breezes which run with and against the tide. Once you're east of the bridges there are very few harbours which don't dry at low tide so you may need to stay on the water until you can get back in... a fair commitment in doubtful weather.

If you and sirewan team up and get on well together it won't be long in a 6mtr Humber until you venture up the Forth to Inchkeith, visit SPR at Elie, nip over to the Isle of May, have a peak at the gannets on the Bass, zoom down to Dunbar....

Go for it. Good luck to you.

fop · 21 July 2011, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirewan

Fop im also in Edinburgh,got a 6.1m Humber arriving monday, got my rya intermediate this wkend at Port Edgar, I also need to build up hours as I want to get my advanced ticket in December. Could help us both if your up for putting up some of the fuel costs?
Ewan

Fantastic! Certainly go halfers on fuel. I've sent you a P.M.