2 stroke v 4 stroke

[Chris]

Originally Posted by sorabain

guess which specific brand this outfit sells?

E-TEC clearly otherwise why go to the bother of highlighting the benefits of the engines..

[MatFromPoland]

Originally Posted by jonp

If towing toys you can prop almost any engine for fast take off and thrust.

Maybe those who comment should mention what they use their boats for and roughly the hours per year they normally do.

I do long trips offshore then troll for several hours clocking around 300-400hrs per year on my 4 strokes. Servicing is straight forward as basikly it's much the same as doing any car.

You troll so spend many hrs on boat.

I do make trips 50-100 km (one way distance) and average speed 50 km/h
To discover new small port in Greece, new small island, bay, beach.
So I do less than 100 hr per year. But make more than 1500 km per year.

Any modern 2T or 4T will fit me I think. Sometimes we visit with friends some lakes in Poland so current setup very easy drive more than 60 km/hr with 9 people on board. Probably 4 T will do the same - never compare. Had 4T HONDA before I was happy also. Not idea why fight "only 2T or only 4T" in term of modern engines. If I remember you can use EVINRUDE even on Bodensee/(lake Constance) lake. So it must be clean enough I think.

[jeffstevens763@g]

watched that last night good sales pitch for the etec don't believe the yam was that poor

[Stuart1975]

Impossible to tell whats best as to many things different in a test like that.

Feel like the thread was started to have a argument or just diss one type over another? Still don't get it n everyone chooses what they want n we don't all drive certain cars and say they are the best and there is nothing else good.

[sorabain]

i'm sticking with my six-stroke

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-st...Anson_6181.JPG

if that goes wrong i've got my one-stroke engine as a backup

https://img0.etsystatic.com/il_fullxfull.194366103.jpg

[Sonar]

It will not be too long before there is NO choice.

It will be a 4 stroke and that,s that..

Unless your a commercial user...

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by Sonar

It will not be too long before there is NO choice.

It will be a 4 stroke and that,s that..

Unless your a commercial user...

Before the fanboys jump on that.......

The etec g2 is probably the cleanest outboard in the market period due to advances in DI. Exact figures are on the epa site if you want to go trawling.

Once the 4 strokes go DI instead of EFI they will obvioulsy pi$$ all over the etecs with emmisions and probably better fuel economy again, but probably with a weight penalty as needs higher fuel pressure pumps than the current port efi injection.

The G2 is probably the most fuel efficient outboard available due to the advances with DI, whether the injectors and pumps last we will need to wait and see. Injectors don't like crap fuel or water, DI is even more sensitive as it lives in the combustion chamber where it is a wee bit hot, so costs go up for them. Efi injectors live in a much cooler environment so not as complex units.

Keep in mind, there are no real modern 4 strokes in terms of fuelling, only Suzuki have done much with lean burn in last few years. To date no one has went as far as etec with DI (the optimax doesn't have mercury injection tech BTW, it is licenced)

There are a few reasons for them not REALLY concentrating on fuel efficiency-

1. Weight has always been an issue, fix that first so money spent there.
2. Efi engines easily meet emmision standards set out by regulating authorities so why waste money chasing more. Spend the money on improving weight and torque first.

It is good evinrude have moved the industry on IMO but the reality was they had to do it to keep making engines past the 2018 epa regulations and foreseeable beyond. As mercury don't own their DI tech I assume they will ditch their 2 strokes after 2018 rather than attempt to compete with evinrude when they have a solid 4 stroke line up.

If I had to predict the future, big Outboards over say 150hp will eventually be force induced and smaller blocks used. Currently 4 strokes are using bigger blocks to get torque up, i don't see that continuing as cars are going the opposite way and therefore Outboards need bespoke blocks ££££££. Probably bad economics long term that so I'm curious to see where it goes.

I have said before I will never buy a 2 stroke, but it is only because of the constant rumours of banning them on loch Lomond. It has been happening for years that rumour and nothing seems to come from it.....but the day I hang an etec they will pass it!

There are arguments boats with 2 strokes are harder to sell. There may be some truth in that but it is highly subjective at best. As long as it isn't a ficht I would sleep easy

However, buy what suits your needs and get out boating, 2 or 4 stroke.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Stuart1975

Feel like the thread was started to have a argument or just diss one type over another? Still don't get it n everyone chooses what they want n we don't all drive certain cars and say they are the best and there is nothing else good.

I would avoid internet car forums or you are going to be disappointed!

Originally Posted by Xk59D

The etec g2 is probably the cleanest outboard in the market period due to DI. Exact figures are on the epa site if you want to go trawling.

I wonder if Voltswagon made outboards what they would say ;-)

[matt h]

As said before it got taken down by !!!!!.. this is less of a discussion and more of a commercial interest plug!

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by Poly

I wonder if Voltswagon made outboards what they would say ;-)

Haha...vor sprung we been caught.....ohhhh scheet!!!

Seriously. The very people who caught them out have every outboard made in their spec sheets. They show you the true HP (makers are allowed 10% margin either way, hence evinrude HO exists) fuel economy, emissions, weight, expected life in hours etc.....good reading.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by matt h

As said before it got taken down by !!!!!.. this is less of a discussion and more of a commercial interest plug!

Ohh I dunno! I thought it had been quite reasoned & mature compared to the usual standard, it'll probably go downhill now though


.....sh1t happens.......

[matt h]

Not by me PD! Would be interesting to put say a Yam 90 Two stroke against an ETEC 90 two stroke which would be like for like and not a completely different engine
Old Yam 90 AETOL 119kgs
Latest ETEC 148kgs..???
The ETEC 90 is a great looking engine but why so heavy and comparing two different cycle engines to one another is far from ideal or remotely accurate!

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by matt h

Not by me PD! Would be interesting to put say a Yam 90 Two stroke against an ETEC two stroke which would be like for like and not a completely different engine
Old Yam 90 AETOL 119kgs
Latest ETEC 148kgs..???
The ETEC 90 is a great looking engine but why so heavy and comparing two different cycle engines to one another is far from ideal!

It is most likely a result of the HP fuel pump and injection being added accounting for most of the difference.

They are physically bigger too, I think more cubes too over a yam 90? probably a bigger gearbox and more oil to handle that special torque they bang on about in the stupid videos only idiots buy into.

They will never do like for like, closest being an optimax as there is a good chance an optimax would be equal and that is bad for making stupid videos showing sinking boats.

[Stuart1975]

Bond was using merc four strokes in spectre last night?

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Stuart1975

Bond was using merc four strokes in spectre last night?

It's called "product placement"

Re. the weight differences between 4 & 2 strokes. 4 strokes are inherently more complex than 2s, many more moving parts, cams, valves etc. If 4 strokes are now approaching or indeed beating the relative low weight of 2 strokes, where's the weight going? what's being shaved off & cut out? I'm not trolling here, or needlessly fuelling the debate, I'm genuinely curious as to how you achieve the low weights of 2s with a 4s

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

It's called "product placement"

...and the Bond movies are right at the top 'splash for cash' game.

Landrover/Jaguar, Sony, Omega.........

[C-NUMB]

The new mercury 4stroke outboards(75-150) have reduced the amount of parts and should be easier to maintain on DIY basis compared to previous models. They used to have dual overhead cams but now single, halved the amount of valves. This with still better performance and less weight than in previus models. IMHO they are going to the right direction, would be my choice if would buy a new 4 stroke in that range.

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

It's called "product placement"

Re. the weight differences between 4 & 2 strokes. 4 strokes are inherently more complex than 2s, many more moving parts, cams, valves etc. If 4 strokes are now approaching or indeed beating the relative low weight of 2 strokes, where's the weight going? what's being shaved off & cut out? I'm not trolling here, or needlessly fuelling the debate, I'm genuinely curious as to how you achieve the low weights of 2s with a 4s

They are still about 50lbs heavier than an etec for engines I've looked at (150-250hp)

However, as I said previously, they have clearly been spending their money on weight reduction and better materials must come into play.

However, being a cynical git, I do wonder how thin all the bits are on that yam mentioned.

Re 4 strokes being more complex..... with power steering, auto trim, fancy oil injection systems and direct injection with high pressure fuel pumps, are they still more complex?. Not a single 4 stroke has any of that just now.

In terms of moving parts, ofcourse the 4 stroke has more, but we can't call a timing belt or chain complex in this day and age surely. It is a basic mechanical system that is taken for granted in our cars, why not Outboards?. That g2 is just as complex but in a different way. The days of basic engines are over for most.

[jeffstevens763@g]

Sometimes I think this is over thought I follow the car industry that's the way it's going 2strokes went long ago Saab, foden lorrys to name two but we will throw the beer in the boat and you never know just in case items not giving weight another thought but buying an engine wow it's 5kg Heaver that it nearest rival such a problem my take is P for plenty max HP 2 or4st

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

Sometimes I think this is over thought I follow the car industry that's the way it's going 2strokes went long ago Saab, foden lorrys to name two but we will throw the beer in the boat and you never know just in case items not giving weight another thought but buying an engine wow it's 5kg Heaver that it nearest rival such a problem my take is P for plenty max HP 2 or4st

P for Plenty!.....Gotta make that right!..whichever Stroke ROCKS YOURE BOAT!
(Obviously coupled with a bit of C.S.!)
Then it's pay YOUR money and Take YOURE CHOICE!
Different strokes for different folks??
Main thing is and always has been CONFIDENCE IN YOURE RiG! ...(All Of it!)..Then right Cruise in the right company!