2nd Hand VHF DSC Worries

Festinghouse · 16 March 2014, 20:05

Got out in holyhead bay on saturday for the first time this year, blowing the cobwebs away and jumping some rather large waves

next minute the DSC alarm goes off so we stayed where we were to monitor any developments. holyhead coastguard made numerous attempts to make contact with the vessel which they believed to be a 32ton fishing boat. various boats and mobile coastguard patrols were tasked with scanning the horizon for any sign of said fishing boat. next minute, a member of the public called 999 and reported seeing red flares off south stack. trearddur bay lifeboat then located 'a small boat which had taken a huge wave and sustained damage'. it seems all crew were ok and the boat was escorted home. the coastguard were confident that the small boat was the one that sent out the dsc alert.
my own theory on this (that is all it is) is that the small boat was probably fitted with a second hand radio which hadnt been reset and new mmsi programmed in. this of course caused a lot of confusion at a time when time cannot be wasted.
ebay is full of used radios, so makes me wonder how many other radios are fitted in boats they dont belong to with the operator thinking 'oh it will be ok'. maybe manufacturers should rethink the idea of how radios are reset?

Deekus · 16 March 2014, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Festinghouse

Got out in holyhead bay on saturday for the first time this year, blowing the cobwebs away and jumping some rather large waves

next minute the DSC alarm goes off so we stayed where we were to monitor any developments. holyhead coastguard made numerous attempts to make contact with the vessel which they believed to be a 32ton fishing boat. various boats and mobile coastguard patrols were tasked with scanning the horizon for any sign of said fishing boat. next minute, a member of the public called 999 and reported seeing red flares off south stack. trearddur bay lifeboat then located 'a small boat which had taken a huge wave and sustained damage'. it seems all crew were ok and the boat was escorted home. the coastguard were confident that the small boat was the one that sent out the dsc alert.
my own theory on this (that is all it is) is that the small boat was probably fitted with a second hand radio which hadnt been reset and new mmsi programmed in. this of course caused a lot of confusion at a time when time cannot be wasted.
ebay is full of used radios, so makes me wonder how many other radios are fitted in boats they dont belong to with the operator thinking 'oh it will be ok'. maybe manufacturers should rethink the idea of how radios are reset?

Tend to agree with your theory. A worrying underlying issue, and a minefield to put right

ShinyShoe · 16 March 2014, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Festinghouse

maybe manufacturers should rethink the idea of how radios are reset?

Think you'll find its the Americans are responsible rather than the manufacturers.

If you are going to fit DSC you'd think you'd fit GPS so even if you are looking for the wrong thing you'd be looking in the right place...

Now... ...technically have you been a naughty boy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by @MCA_media on Twitter

It's in bad taste and it's also against the law. #999 MCA Media (@MCA_media)

Festinghouse · 16 March 2014, 21:43

oh come on!!!!
a far cry from the junk that gets posted on fb - my posting is of public interest with a true story to back it up. no names etc mentioned so hardly likely to cause offence

Poly · 16 March 2014, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Festinghouse

Got out in holyhead bay on saturday for the first time this year,....holyhead coastguard made numerous attempts to make contact with the vessel which they believed to be a 32ton fishing boat....
my own theory on this (that is all it is) is that the small boat was probably fitted with a second hand radio which hadnt been reset and new mmsi programmed in.... maybe manufacturers should rethink the idea of how radios are reset?

OR just as possibly, someone filled in a form wrongly (and it was 3.2 ton - or some other random guess at size!). Ofcom and the MCA could look at their VHF/DSC registration and CG66 forms to make them more intuitive to the amateur boater...

I'm not convinced the ITU have their rules right on reprogrammability of DSC radios - but I can see just as many issues with un-programmed, or randomly entered DSC numbers too.

Gramas · 16 March 2014, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Think you'll find its the Americans are responsible rather than the manufacturers. If you are going to fit DSC you'd think you'd fit GPS so even if you are looking for the wrong thing you'd be looking in the right place... Now... ...technically have you been a naughty boy?

???????????????????
Is he not making folk aware of the dangers and problems of 2nd hand Dsc vhf's
Not as if someone died and he making that public etc!
I'm crew on local rnli and I think on 2 occasions we had this where looking for a vessel and been told colour but vessel been different

kerny · 16 March 2014, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Festinghouse

oh come on!!!!
a far cry from the junk that gets posted on fb - my posting is of public interest with a true story to back it up. no names etc mentioned so hardly likely to cause offence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gramas

???????????????????
Is he not making folk aware of the dangers and problems of 2nd hand Dsc vhf's
Not as if someone died and he making that public etc!
I'm crew on local rnli and I think on 2 occasions we had this where looking for a vessel and been told colour but vessel been different

I agree Fester has made a very valid point

mick · 16 March 2014, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerny

I agree Fester has made a very valid point

If it's true about the second hand set why would you try and save a £5 when new sets are so reasonably priced these days

jyasaki · 17 March 2014, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

If you are going to fit DSC you'd think you'd fit GPS so even if you are looking for the wrong thing you'd be looking in the right place...

Given all the threads on here about people having problems connecting the two, you're surprised about it? How many boaters don't read a forum like this one, where people are (usually) helpful? My guess would be more than do.

jky

chewy · 17 March 2014, 09:04

I think the comment shiny shoe made regards posting what you hear on the VHF was tongue in cheek although he is correct.

He got a few bites out of it too!

boristhebold · 17 March 2014, 09:13

Its probably a wide spread issue, I expect lots of boaters have never heard of a CG66 form. The only time I heard about a CG66 form was on a training course. So considering many people dont take training courses there are probably huge numbers of people without a VHF licence and without a CG66 form with the coastguard.

I do have an Icom VHF set I took off recently and replaced with a newer set, the old set still works and I am going to sell it, however its sat in my garage because I am conscious it still has my MMSI programmed into it which I need to get taken out before I sell it.

I blame the manuafacturers, there should be some mechanism by which a normal person can reset the number rather than haveing to take it to a dealer to be done.

Here's an idea, maybe the manufacturers of the sets should give the necessary resetting equipement to all the local RNLI stations around the country and they could offer a service to reset the number free of charge but with the condition that to do it you must A - show a valid VHF licence and B - Show a valid CG66 form completed or fill one in if you dont have one.

Or perhaps chandlers should do it, I dont know why a charge is made to reset them.

Daniel · 17 March 2014, 09:18

Boris, we charge to program / reset because not only is it our time, we have to buy the programming kit !! Why would you expect a dealer to do this for free ?

I think you would all be surprised to know how many DSC sets we see that aernt programmed at all (no mmsi = big red button won't work) or aernt connected to a gps.

Festinghouse · 17 March 2014, 09:20

no doubt some muppett will be along shortly to say thats its good business as it makes it more likely that people will buy a new radio instead of 2nd hand

Festinghouse · 17 March 2014, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

Boris, we charge to program / reset because not only is it our time, we have to buy the programming kit !! Why would you expect a dealer to do this for free ?

this is the problem, the manufacturers could so easily make the process so much easier - without the need for any programming etc. if anything were needed though, then as a dealer, manufacturers should throw it in free for the people busy selling their products!

Jizm · 17 March 2014, 09:33

I could be wrong but not all VHF manufacturers have dealer only reset methods?

Daniel · 17 March 2014, 09:41

This is true. Some can be DIY reset, and I do agree this seams more sensible.

Icom it sure all need a visit to a dealer. Std horizon too and the few simrad I have seen. M-tec also but not hugely common so haven't bought the kit.

Cobra don't.

Garmin & Raymarine I'm not sure we don't see many.