2x8m vs 1x10m for Tour

islandflyer · 12 May 2015, 01:01

I already have the idea for a tour, and have been speaking to various manufacturers across the US and Europe, a few of which are on this board. This thread isn't about which is better, etc, just the concept.

I'm debating whether to do two 7.8-8m boats or one 10m boat.

The tour is about an hour, through protected waters and a bit outside, but if bad weather could stay on the inside.

In terms of financing, I think we can stretch it either way, as overall they'll be similar. The two 8m boats would be more than the single 10m.

Both would run off of Verado 300's, either a single or twins. Preferably a bench seat in the back, console, then dual pod seats forward.

The 10m could handle 16+2, where an 8m could handle 10+2 comfortably.

Obviously would have to hire 2x the crew for the 2 smaller boats vs the larger 10m.

The smaller boats would allow to run a single boat for less people on the tour. They would also allow for one boat to be down while the other one could still be in operation.

The single boat would have two engines, so if one went down it could still get home. It would also make it easier and more comforting to run to further destinations for charters or new tours.

Two boats would also allow for two separate tours to be running at similar times, whereas having just one boat would limit that option. Targeting cruise ships and hotels, so having two boats might be easier to schedule and keep running.

Any input would be greatly appreciated, especially in terms of tours you've been on...I have not been on one yet! But plan to in the next few weeks.

Thanks!

Last Tango · 12 May 2015, 07:25

Don't know about regs where you are but certainly in the UK it would be much easier to get skippers for 10+2 than 16+2. I think commercially endorsed RYA APB only covers for 12 passengers so you might find yourself having to pay your skipper for the 10mtr boat substantially more.

Pikey Dave · 12 May 2015, 07:33

you could start out with a single 8m, see how it goes, test the business model & then go for another 8m or the 10m at a later stage. That way you aren't committed & have the flexibility to adjust the model.

islandflyer · 12 May 2015, 12:09

I guess one of the fears I have is of the engine breaking down with a single. How's the reliability and longevity of a brand-new major manufacturer RIB and a 300hp Verado these days?

In terms of break down - I mean two fold - one, with guests on board. Two, having to cancel bookings.

islandflyer · 12 May 2015, 17:23

hmm didn't think that one through, can use twin 150 outboards for redundancy.

Ian M · 12 May 2015, 18:24

You realise of course that twin 150s will not give you the performance of a 300 single?

islandflyer · 12 May 2015, 19:28

Yes, if it's an issue we can go with the Verado 175's or 200s. Was looking at the newer fourstroke mercury 150's with the 3.0 liter blocks.

Andre · 12 May 2015, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian M

You realise of course that twin 150s will not give you the performance of a 300 single?

Ian M, I gather you have speed in mind whereas I would argue that sea keeping ability for this application is perhaps more important as a racing rib is not subject of this thread.

For safety and sea keeping performance always twin

Perhaps 250knots or C2RIBS can speak from experience has both operate twin outboard ribs for the same application.

ShinyShoe · 12 May 2015, 19:51

Twins are a great get out of jail card on the water, but bear in mind for true redundancy you need separate fuel and leccy etc. But you will never set out with 1 of your engines not running...

redthunder · 12 May 2015, 21:29

I run a 7.5 with twin merc 150 four strokes there really good. On third season with them. Same performance as I got with a single 250 opti on the same boat.

Steve_B · 13 May 2015, 11:18

I know of lots of single engine commercial RIBs that have operated successfully for many years.
The real question here is how you feel the RIB of your choice handles AND where you intend to operate.
I have operated a twin 9m RIB for 5 years, covering the equivalent of 4 return crossings of the Atlantic. The Parker has separate fuel tanks and electrics and can operate completely independently.
During that time, I have had an engine "fail" twice. Once a gearbox exploded (a manufacturing fault) and one due to chronic fuel contamination (i still don't know how the other engine kept running?).
When the gearbox failed, we were at a remote location, close to cliffs and having the second engine was an absolute must. When we lost an engine due to the fuel, there were many other vessels near by and in no danger. However, had the fuel problem occurred when in the remote location, no amount of engines would have helped. Realistically, no one refuels each tank from different fuel supplies.
A twin has increased overheads for servicing and fuel costs.
The Parker RIB's of all sizes, are mighty fine boats and would be hard to beat commercially.
Regards
Steve

andyjcox1 · 13 May 2015, 11:25

Would a diesel inboard also not be a good option on the 10m, or would it take up too much space. It would keep the fuel and servicing costs down and be as reliable, if not better than outboards ?

islandflyer · 14 May 2015, 00:57

Thanks for all the replies!

I think where we are and the typical tour, we could probably get away with a single engine. That being said, twins reliability is nice, cost is twice, as is fuel. I am still running numbers and need to talk to potential clients, so that will be a big factor.

A diesel would not work due to space mainly.

Any more input, stories or advice is always greatly appreciated!

Chris · 14 May 2015, 08:11

If your looking to test the market. Why not speak to these guys, they frequently have used boats available that are already fully fitted out for Seafari's type operations.

If you want advise on the best solution for your requirement I am sure they would be worth a call.

Passenger Seafari RHIBs - Quinquari Marine

willk · 14 May 2015, 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

... they frequently have used boats available that are already fully fitted out for Seafari's type operations.

Even a few Tropical looking craft!

islandflyer · 14 May 2015, 11:59

Great link Chris, thanks a lot!

seafariskye · 16 May 2015, 08:59

If your running it in the UK. 12 passengers will be your maximum, or you have to go into MCA passenger boat land - which is a very costly nightmare- and would not recommend it to anyone -- one of there rules would prob be you would have to get the air in the tubes from the top of a mountain or someshiete.. It would also be the first in the UK over 12 passengers I think ..
Diesel inboard - fine option - had in all of mine and no problems..
Personally - an will prob be slagged for it - I couldn't think of anything worse then 2 big thirsty outboards that would need fed each and every day from a ton of Jerry cans...
Diesel inboards rule ...

Poly · 16 May 2015, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by seafariskye

If your running it in the UK. 12 passengers will be your maximum, or you have to go into MCA passenger boat land - which is a very costly nightmare- and would not recommend it to anyone -- one of there rules would prob be you would have to get the air in the tubes from the top of a mountain or someshiete.. It would also be the first in the UK over 12 passengers I think ..
Diesel inboard - fine option - had in all of mine and no problems..
Personally - an will prob be slagged for it - I couldn't think of anything worse then 2 big thirsty outboards that would need fed each and every day from a ton of Jerry cans...
Diesel inboards rule ...

I think from his other posts he's in the caribean.

islandflyer · 16 May 2015, 12:50

Yes - we're in the Caribbean. Sort of. Details soon

I submitted to the port department for approval. Should know by the end of June.

10m RIB with twin 300 Verados, 16 pod seating, 2 crew

islandflyer · 16 May 2015, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by seafariskye

Diesel inboard - fine option - had in all of mine and no problems..
Personally - an will prob be slagged for it - I couldn't think of anything worse then 2 big thirsty outboards that would need fed each and every day from a ton of Jerry cans...
Diesel inboards rule ...

Diesel inboard is 3-4x the cost initially.

If one engine goes down, easy to switch out an outboard and get back on the water. Outboards easier to access for routine maintenance. Less corrosion as boat will be in water 24/7 for probably 360 days a year.

More maneuverability with twin outboards than a big single diesel.
Quicker to plane with the outboards.

Slow speed semi-sub tour boat around here with twin 300 Verados had 6000+ hours before they lost a powerhead, and did zero maintenance apparently. They're replacing with a brand new set with no complaints.

And most importantly - Cool factor is 4.6x (very scientific study) when seeing twin 300hp outboards on the back